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Using LUTs for underwater usage

Panasonic gh5 colour correction

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#1 Interceptor121

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 05:47 AM

I wonder if anyone has used a LUT underwater. I am using one and the improvement is massive

 

Does anyone use LUTs and which ones?


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#2 thetrickster

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 06:03 AM

I'm shooting VLOG-L with my GH5 and using the standard Panasonic V35 Lut for the starting point. Happy so far with the results, I purchased the Alexa GHa, LeemingLut and the JooWorks ones to try - with the best being the GHa one, but they aren't suitable for UW work...


Edited by thetrickster, 05 February 2019 - 06:19 AM.

Regards, Richard

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#3 Interceptor121

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 08:29 AM

Have you tried any cinelike D LUT?

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#4 supawoot.t

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 06:41 AM

Hi, I have both Leeming LUTs for GH5 vlog and cine-d. For vlog its ok i like it but i mostly shoot in 60fps and leeming manual doesnt recommend shooting 8bit in vlog so lately i have been testing leeming cine-d luts and the white balance is just weird in some shot with sand and light also the blue usually turn cyan.


Edited by supawoot.t, 06 February 2019 - 06:46 AM.


#5 brousseb

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 06:43 AM

I’ve tried the Noam Kroll CineD LUT on CineD footage and it was not good for underwater footage. Way too contrasty and saturated. I’m happy with it on land. I just create my own in DaVinci now.

#6 Interceptor121

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 10:45 AM

I am using leeming luta and setting white balance in water
In most cases the lut improves the footage starts with magenta tinge and then gets to better color for grading
In some cases the contrast is too high but generally if it was decent to start with it gets better if it was not good can get better or worse
Generally I like the LUT i think is the gh5 white balance that is not as good as advertised

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#7 Lionfi2s

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 08:53 PM

What do you use the LUTS for?  Normalizing the footage? Balancing the footage? Transform from one colour space to another?  Quicker grading? 


Edited by Lionfi2s, 06 February 2019 - 08:53 PM.


#8 Interceptor121

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 12:07 AM

What do you use the LUTS for?  Normalizing the footage? Balancing the footage? Transform from one colour space to another?  Quicker grading? 

 

Balancing and setting a stage for grading

 

Look at this examples

 

The first is in camera the second is with the LUT untouched and the third is white balanced after the LUT

Attached Images

  • CineLike D in camera.jpg
  • CineLike D LUT.jpg
  • CineLike D White Balanced.jpg

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#9 Lionfi2s

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 12:18 AM

So on the example provided it's just contrast and saturation bump and then you have to white balance and grade. Why pay for a LUT that is not designed for your needs (UW), you are doing the job anyway so just increase the contrast and saturation as you are white balancing. 



#10 Interceptor121

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 01:06 AM

So on the example provided it's just contrast and saturation bump and then you have to white balance and grade. Why pay for a LUT that is not designed for your needs (UW), you are doing the job anyway so just increase the contrast and saturation as you are white balancing. 


The purpose of a LUT is to correct the camera hues (the panasonic colors are off) and conform to a calibrated rec709. In addition the LUT using the correct exposure maximises the dynamic range without loosing the details
Why spend 15 on a LUT? It saves time you apply it in bulk to the footage and is reversable once you have spent $5000 on a rig spending an additinal 0.4% is insignificant.
If you look at this footage that was white balanced in water you can see in the first image that colors are off the GH5 has introduced a magenta tinge despite the white balance on a slate. In the LUT rhe tinge has disappeared then you can further edit it or rebalance
I am talking to Paul Leeming to see if there is a way to produce a cast killer LUT

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#11 Lionfi2s

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 01:46 AM

The purpose of a LUT is to correct the camera hues (the panasonic colors are off) and conform to a calibrated rec709. In addition the LUT using the correct exposure maximises the dynamic range without loosing the details
Why spend 15 on a LUT? It saves time you apply it in bulk to the footage and is reversable once you have spent $5000 on a rig spending an additinal 0.4% is insignificant.
If you look at this footage that was white balanced in water you can see in the first image that colors are off the GH5 has introduced a magenta tinge despite the white balance on a slate. In the LUT rhe tinge has disappeared then you can further edit it or rebalance
I am talking to Paul Leeming to see if there is a way to produce a cast killer LUT

You can do the same in Resolve if you are working in a colour managed environment (even on the free version). Cinelike D is a rec 709 profile anyway. 

Sorry, I don't believe in the LUTS "magic" it's not about the 15 its about working or not and for UW footage they don't.

We can talk hours on the why but no point to it.



#12 thetrickster

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 01:54 AM

If you like shooting the CineD profile - I would think the CineV profile would be a better in-camera starting point, as the contrast is much better.

 

TBH I would prefer to get the colour and contrast set in camera and liked the scenery profile previously with increases in contrast to  +3 and hue to +1, but been playing with vlogl only to see how HDR works (and failing! LOL), but its pain and actually prefer using a baked Rec709 profile. The Like709 profile is quite punchy too.

 

Agreed also about the GH5 white balance - its so much better than the GH4 and previous, but not amazing still.


Regards, Richard

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Camera Rigs: Nauticam BMPCC4K, Nauticam Lumix GH5V, 14-42mm II, Nauticam WWL-1, Atomos Inferno and DivePro G18 Plus Lighting. Underwater Insta360 One X.

www.richardwait.com / Custom 3D Designed UW Parts


#13 Interceptor121

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 01:58 AM

You can do the same in Resolve if you are working in a colour managed environment (even on the free version). Cinelike D is a rec 709 profile anyway. 

Sorry, I don't believe in the LUTS "magic" it's not about the 15 its about working or not and for UW footage they don't.

We can talk hours on the why but no point to it.

 

I am not sure you can be that prescriptive what am talking about is a balancing LUT that corrects the hues of the camera. There is no doubt that other than canon that are pretty accurate many cameras and all panasonic and sony have incorrect starting colour base which keeps going even with white balance. Obviously you can do that yourself creating a LUT and playing with a test card but this is not what I like to spend my time on.

I am not referring to magic but to speeding up the process and for that they seem to work. Ideally you would want a balanced in water LUT but that is practically impossible due to different depths type of water etc etc


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#14 Interceptor121

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 02:02 AM

If you like shooting the CineD profile - I would think the CineV profile would be a better in-camera starting point, as the contrast is much better.

 

TBH I would prefer to get the colour and contrast set in camera and liked the scenery profile previously with increases in contrast to  +3 and hue to +1, but been playing with vlogl only to see how HDR works (and failing! LOL), but its pain and actually prefer using a baked Rec709 profile. The Like709 profile is quite punchy too.

 

Agreed also about the GH5 white balance - its so much better than the GH4 and previous, but not amazing still.

 

The way the process work is that you shoot desaturated and then you bring it back the theory is that you don't crush the shadows. In terms of baking in once is done is done and you can't go back so I thought this is better option

 

I have abandoned the HDR route for the GH5 after doing many tests with my OLED tv of scenes I can see that the camera is not actually capable of displaying anywhere near a Rec.2020 palette even on land. For what concerns dynamic range you can see some cases on land but underwater am quite skeptical there will be anything

 

So at the end I went for cine-like D 10 bits but I finish it in 8 bits rec709 and looks excellent. I don't shoot log so I can't comment but on land and in water cinelike D seems pretty flexible


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#15 Lionfi2s

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 03:53 AM

 

I am not sure you can be that prescriptive what am talking about is a balancing LUT that corrects the hues of the camera. There is no doubt that other than canon that are pretty accurate many cameras and all panasonic and sony have incorrect starting colour base which keeps going even with white balance. Obviously you can do that yourself creating a LUT and playing with a test card but this is not what I like to spend my time on.

I am not referring to magic but to speeding up the process and for that they seem to work. Ideally you would want a balanced in water LUT but that is practically impossible due to different depths type of water etc etc

I 've seen incredible samples of work from both GH5 and Sony cameras, some of them in this forum. So, I think its mostly a know your camera thing rather than, anything other than Canon doesn't work. Incredibly how all this "Panasonic has this HUE, Sony has this colour cast, etc" is mainly circulated by those who make and sell the magic LUTS :) 

Anyway, I think the most important, is what you said in the end, it is not possible to have a one-stop solution for the problem because there are so many variables that one table (LUT) can not solve. There is a reason that all the guys that sell LUTs want you to follow specific exposure and white balance settings for optimum results.



#16 hellhole

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 06:28 PM

how does one get these 'lut'?  

also how to apply to the program?  am using sony vegas and premier pro... but total noob



#17 Interceptor121

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 04:00 AM

Don't know about premiere pro but if you google leeming lut there are instructions for all camera and programs


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#18 ehanauer

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 08:42 AM

Over the past year, color correction software has improved significantly. Final Cut Pro has released improved tools. Denver Riddle has released cinema Grade, a new plugin that works really well. These are just the ones I use; I'm sure there are others that are just as good. Bottom line: GH5 manual white balance gets me in the ballpark; software does the fine tuning. For my work, I see no need for LUTs.


Edited by ehanauer, 08 February 2019 - 08:43 AM.

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