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Strobes set up on Sony rx100


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#1 Drp

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 10:41 AM

Hi all I am currently building my rig which is Sony rx100v. Sony housing. Inon grip base with two handles
With ball joints also have the shoe mount ball for a focus light I am looking for advice on reliable strobes and a good focus light
Inon d 300 or the newer z330 twin setup which arms ?and lengths? getting the rig slightly negative ?
Focus light options with auto shut off

I have Inon wide lens with dome also Inon macro lens
Would greatly appreciate any sound advice

#2 stilly

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 10:04 AM

I have the RX100 VI and went with the Nauticam housing, 2 YS-D2, and a Sola 800 focus light. This rig I use for super macro with the SMC-1 and flip adapter. The focus peaking on the RX100 helps on the accuracy of focus.

2019-01-24%2017.47.01_zpsscs3bdgy.jpg



#3 ChrisRoss

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Posted 27 January 2019 - 03:26 AM

the RX 100 being a compact does not need to stop down so much f4 on the RX100 =  approx f11 on full frame, for example which means required strobe power is lower and something like a pair of S-2000 will work well.  INON publish weights of all their accessories underwater to if you weigh your housing/camera UW then you can estimate hwo much buoyancy is required to get near neutral:

 

http://www.inon.jp/p...ight_table.html

 

For example the the S-2000 weighs 47g  underwater .  Add up all you components weights to get your final UW weight.  For example say your housing + camera weighed  500 gr UW, the Grip base II is 117 gr, standard clamps (6 required  = 6 x 11g for clamp III ) = 66 gr 2 x s-2000 =47 x 2 = 94 gr.  Total weight = 500+117 + 66 + 94 =777 grams underwater.  so you need something in the range of 650-700 gr of buoyancy to get it to weigh around 100gr UW.  

 

Next estimate your arms.. Two Mega float arm S at 390 gr buoyancy each =  -780 gram +  2 x multi ball arm L = 69 gr * 2 = 138, to total weight = -780 + 138 = -642 pr so the rig would weigh -642 + 777 =  135 gr UW or 135 gr negative.

 

To do it this way, weigh the housing and camera underwater suspended from a luggage scale like the ones they sell for travel.  If it floats calculate how much weight is required to sink it then add components as required to confirm final UW weight.  YOu can do the same with INON wet lenses.



#4 Stig

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 01:51 AM

the RX 100 being a compact does not need to stop down so much f4 on the RX100 =  approx f11 on full frame, for example which means required strobe power is lower and something like a pair of S-2000 will work well.

 

Really?  It's a smaller sensor than full frame so gets fewer photons.  For the same sensor technology a larger sensor is always going to have better sensitivity.  The difference in f-stop is down to the different focal lengths required to get the same angle of view.



#5 Interceptor121

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 02:41 AM

The most popular arm segments is 5+8 with this set up I have been going for years only recently for a shark trip I have bought two 12" segments

 

In terms of buoyancy it really depends on how much lift you need. If you use floats you may not have enough if you use float arms once they are there you can't reduce it

 

My article of 2014 gives you a good idea of what is out there https://interceptor1...and-float-arms/

 

Generally with the RX100 much depends on the wet lenses you carry and the housing. If you have an aluminum housing and load the rigs with wet lenses it will become fairly negative really soon

 

I had two possible configuration on Inon mega float M (they give you a lot of lift) and a normal 5" to put your lens caddy or one Mega float S plus a standard float arm this could also be a standard arm with two large floats


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#6 hyp

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 02:42 AM

What ChrissRoss says is accurate. Larger cameras usually are limited by their slow flash sync speed (often only 1/160s). Which means that to balance ambient light with flash you need to have a strong flash to overpower the sun. Because you don't want to overexpose you will stop down significantly. 

 

On a compact like the RX100 you can flash sync up to 1/2000s. This means that your aperture only needs to be set to reach optimal DoF, which will not be higher than F4 in general. Your flash doesn't need to be as strong as a result.

 

I made that experience the hard way when I moved from my LX7 to the Olympus Em5. With the upgrade I also purchased a second YS01 strobe. On the LX7 I actually never felt limited by the amount of light the strobe put out, but on the Em5 I am suddenly wishing I had also upgraded the strobes.



#7 Interceptor121

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 02:58 AM

The statements about shooting f/4 have to be taken with a pinch of salt if you go on a dof calculator you find that

 

The Rx100 mark II of the op when at full zoom with f/4 has a depth a field of 0.4mm at 10cm which is nothing at f/11 has 1.1mm at same distance

 

A micro four third on a 60mm lens at 19cm which achieves full macro has double the dof of the rx100

 

An SLR full frame with a 105m lens at 30cm which is when you get 1:1 has 3.6mm

 

I have shot the Rx100 a lot with pygmy also in video and f/11 is the way to go for super macro. Generally always between f/8 and f/11 for macro while f/5.6 is for wide angle and portrait work

 

Wider apertures I have only used in video due to the fact I set ISO max to 800 and the corners are not sharp until f/5.6 on rare occasion for stills I have used f/4 and wider only for bokeh

 

In terms of strobes the inon z240 or the sea and sea DS or DS2 work fine obviously if you get some Z330 they will go even further with you. S2000 or similar are not a good idea in my view


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#8 Stig

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 03:33 AM

What ChrissRoss says is accurate. Larger cameras usually are limited by their slow flash sync speed (often only 1/160s). Which means that to balance ambient light with flash you need to have a strong flash to overpower the sun. Because you don't want to overexpose you will stop down significantly. 

 

On a compact like the RX100 you can flash sync up to 1/2000s. This means that your aperture only needs to be set to reach optimal DoF, which will not be higher than F4 in general. Your flash doesn't need to be as strong as a result.

 

Cool, that makes sense.  I didn't realise the RX100 could flash sync at that fast a shutter speed, I guess it's down to electronic rather than mechanical shutter.  Mind you, 1/2000s is going to start cutting into the flash duration requiring you to have a more powerful flash to compensate...



#9 Interceptor121

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 04:54 AM



 

Cool, that makes sense.  I didn't realise the RX100 could flash sync at that fast a shutter speed, I guess it's down to electronic rather than mechanical shutter.  Mind you, 1/2000s is going to start cutting into the flash duration requiring you to have a more powerful flash to compensate...

 

Shutter speed has little to do with strobe power which is more about aperture

 

With fast shutter speed you can cut off the ambient light whilst the strobe illuminates the subject properly

 

14348369428_aa3c6917c2_k.jpgSunburst by Interceptor121, on Flickr

 

And no strobe can overpower the sun if you close your aperture and blasts your strobes eventually end up with clipped highlights

 

There are some things that you simply cannot do with a slow sync speed no strobe power will help you


Edited by Interceptor121, 02 February 2019 - 04:56 AM.

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#10 Stig

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 07:14 AM

I just meant that 1/2000s shutter might be cutting off some of the strobe pulse which is about 1/1000s long (well, that's what mine are).  Strobe power settings generally work by shortening the pulse duration so a big pulse from a more powerful strobe at, say, half power (i.e. duration) would work better that a full duration pulse from a weaker strobe when using such a fast shutter speed.  Probably a pretty rare issue in practice though.



#11 ChrisRoss

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 07:41 PM

The statements about shooting f/4 have to be taken with a pinch of salt if you go on a dof calculator you find that

 

The Rx100 mark II of the op when at full zoom with f/4 has a depth a field of 0.4mm at 10cm which is nothing at f/11 has 1.1mm at same distance

 

A micro four third on a 60mm lens at 19cm which achieves full macro has double the dof of the rx100

 

An SLR full frame with a 105m lens at 30cm which is when you get 1:1 has 3.6mm

 

I have shot the Rx100 a lot with pygmy also in video and f/11 is the way to go for super macro. Generally always between f/8 and f/11 for macro while f/5.6 is for wide angle and portrait work

 

Wider apertures I have only used in video due to the fact I set ISO max to 800 and the corners are not sharp until f/5.6 on rare occasion for stills I have used f/4 and wider only for bokeh

 

In terms of strobes the inon z240 or the sea and sea DS or DS2 work fine obviously if you get some Z330 they will go even further with you. S2000 or similar are not a good idea in my view

The point of what I posted is that for the same DOF you can have a wider aperture with a 1" sensor compared to a bigger sensor, So for wide angle which is most demanding on flash power as subjects may be further away generally you can shoot f4-5.6 range and get the same DOF as you would with f11-16 on a full frame.  Because flash runs purely on aperture it means you don't need as powerful a flash.    I wasn't suggesting for a second shooting super macro at f4, shooting at f8 gives about the same DOF as f22 on full frame, which also requires less flash power than that needed on full frame.     Because the strobes are so much closer power is less important, even though you are stopping down.  So if you are staying with a 1" sensor camera something like two S-2000 strobes can be enough and also easier to get in close to your port if needed and overall more balanced with the small housing.    I note the OP mentions a Sony housing, assume it's acrylic and probably positively buoyant, having two heavy flash above the buoyant housing may prove a little unbalanced and will want to float housing up.   Having said that the INON strobes are all quite close to neutral buoyancy, other options I'm not sure about.

 

Stepping up to a m43 setup or larger sensor, you may need to stop down some more  and the housings are getting to the size that two Z330 makes more sense.  If you think you might upgrade to a larger format in the future then the bigger strobes may be worth it.  If you're on a budget you can get two S-2000 for the price of one Z330 more or less which may be a good option for some. 

 

As far as arms go, weigh your housing underwater with a luggage scale assuming it sinks.  INON publishes underwater weights of all their equipment, you can quickly work out the UW weight by adding the weights together (subtracting items that are positively buoyant). and work out how much buoyancy or weight to add to the rig. Link to the table is here:

 

http://www.inon.jp/p...ight_table.html



#12 Interceptor121

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 11:52 PM

@chrisross we are on the same page your earlier post read a bit different hence mine

 

In terms of strobes I could feel a difference between the S2000 and Z240 even if on paper is only 20% more for wide angle also the S2000 has only one tube which results in a more rectangular beam

 

The Z330 are a new product even other professional strobes like the subtronic have used a flat front and still perform great so there are ways around it

 

In general for strobes more power and features you get the longer you keep them


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#13 Oldschool327

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 02:50 AM

Shutter speed has little to do with strobe power which is more about aperture
 
With fast shutter speed you can cut off the ambient light whilst the strobe illuminates the subject properly
 
14348369428_aa3c6917c2_k.jpgSunburst by Interceptor121, on Flickr
 
And no strobe can overpower the sun if you close your aperture and blasts your strobes eventually end up with clipped highlights
 
There are some things that you simply cannot do with a slow sync speed no strobe power will help you


What settings and rig did you use for this amazing picture?

#14 Interceptor121

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 03:23 AM

What settings and rig did you use for this amazing picture?

Thank you

 

The rig i used is here https://interceptor1...00ii-photo-rig/

 

for the image it was f/11 ISO 100 1/2000 shutter speed (benefit of leaf shutter)

 

You cannot technically take this exposure on a SLR or MFT as the shutter speed is limited to 1/250 or 1/320 tops


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#15 horvendile

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 04:33 AM

 

Cool, that makes sense.  I didn't realise the RX100 could flash sync at that fast a shutter speed, I guess it's down to electronic rather than mechanical shutter.  Mind you, 1/2000s is going to start cutting into the flash duration requiring you to have a more powerful flash to compensate...

 

Just a late nitpick, but no, very likely it's some kind of leaf shutter. Electronic shutters generally don't play nice with flash, but leaf shutters do.