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Rates Of Pay


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#21 wagsy

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 08:58 PM

Hi Steve
How was your trip?

I downloaded Digital Anarchy for Premiere Pro but I think I found a easier way for PC users.

1: Encode out a Aspect HD cineform avi 1440/1080 1.333 from a 4.3 mini DV tiimeline.

2: Open it up in a Aspect HD cineform avi 1440/1080 1.333 timeline and increase height and width to 133% and bingo it fills the wndow. You loose abit from the top and bottom but it's not bad and there is no rendering if you do this as it's in real time still.. Still not a good as the ture HDV though but Oka.

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#22 RebreatherDave

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:15 PM

Just because you have a truckload of large bull sharks in a feeding frenzy around your legs is not good justification!

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#23 Nick Hope

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 11:47 PM

The best I've done for stock was US$100 per second for 5 seconds used in the closing credits of a Britannic movie.

Mike, I know how you feel. I'm sitting on a huge pile of good stock footage that's never really seen the light of day. Should have got my DVDs out quicker.

I suppose at least SD is going to be useful for web delivery pretty much indefinitely, but nobody really pays for that.

#24 Steve Douglas

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 08:12 AM

Nick,
Don't be surprised....there is still a market for SD footage, especially when it fits a need that may not be avalable in HD. Add to that the fact that SD can be upconverted with improved resolution using Digital Anarchies Resizer or Magic Bullet's Instant HD. I am not a PC user but my partner, who uses a PC said his 'Procorder' does the job as well.

Wags,
The trip was fine, the humidity was unbearable. We stayed one week at Dumagette and one at Puerta Gallera. While the water was a warm 84, the people and service excellent and the resorts and food just fine, in terms of the marine life we saw, we didn't see much that we couldn't have seen in far greater numbers and frequency in KBR or Bali. Andy at Puerta Gallera was an excellent host and the divemasters all did their best. For me, it was my first time back in the water after back fusion surgery last Sept and, other than leg cramps the first day, it felt great to be able to dive again as well as get used to the new housing and cam
Steve B)

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#25 Nay

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 09:10 AM

Howard Hall wrote an article on breaking into the business. He says one approach is the ask the client's budget and let them know what he can do within that price range. I think that's for custom work though. You can check it out here.

http://www.howardhal...breakingin.html

#26 Steve Douglas

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 01:56 PM

Here's something I just read online. Thought it would be of interest. Steve B)
We have had many questions on how much to charge for various jobs. When I first got into the biz almost 20 years ago, the standard for industrial video production (training, marketing etc.) was $1000 per finished minute. So a 20 minute piece would be $20,000, including planning, shooting and editing.

Nowadays there is no standard. Being a creative pursuit, videomaking is done for free to millions of dollars. TV commercials are shot for free (by local cable companies), average about $300,000, and can run to millions. So asking "how much should I charge" depends on many factors:

- how long will it take you?
- what is the quality level you are capable of?
- what is the client’s budget?
- is the piece straight video with few cuts or will it contain tons of time-consuming animations and graphics?
- how many other jobs do you have waiting?

Here is one way to figure hourly charges:

1. Decide how much you want to make per year
2. Decide how many hours per week on average you will be able to bill (if you have contacts, 20 - 30 hours is reasonable- the other 20 - 30 hours spent marketing, getting jobs, learning, etc.)
3. Divide one by the other, and bingo! There’s your hourly rate.

If you are teamed up with a busy ad agency or other company who can feed you jobs without you looking around much, you will have more work than if you do not have a network of existing business relationships. Some producers have one or two major clients that keep them busy.

How much you can make producing video is largely a factor of what kind of videos you are doing and your contacts. And the quality of your work must be professional looking and sounding! That is the mission of DVcreators.net, to help you produce very pro quality with simple, inexpensive gear.

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#27 CamDiver

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 02:28 PM

This thread should serve as a great guideline for anyone looking to get into the more pro applications of their work. I for one forward the motion that this become a "sticky" for the video section.

Great post Steve and a good way for people to truly judge their potential. I wasn't lamenting too hard regarding the DV stock. I think people have to think outside of the box these days and realise that video production doesn't just limit ones plans to producing imagery for films, DVD, TV shoots etc. There are so many deliverable platforms these days where moving images are a necessity. Not to give anything away but I am closely looking at one particular avenue which could turn out to be either quite luccrative or nothing at all. You gotta be creative in your thinking, after all you are in a creative world, with creative tools and skills to match. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

My 'whiz' idea may take upwards of a year just to put the paperwork together but in the end it may well just pay off. If not, I'll learn, put it down to experience and move on to the next idea. Its all about that diversification of our base product that, in the end, will see the successes and failures of those who step up to the mark. I may be more of a shooter and an ideas guy as opposed to being the most knowledgeable in the editing and post production side of things but we are programmed to learn. There is nothing we can't learn if we set our minds to it.

Cheers,
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#28 Nick Hope

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 05:03 AM

On the Sony Vegas forum some topside video makers were discussing rates of pay:

http://www.sonymedia...essageID=463678

Plenty of other threads on that forum too. Some very experienced people hang out there.

#29 Steve Douglas

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 06:36 AM

Very interesting discussion on there; I guess the bottom line is that we are all in a very competitive field, and like the poor worker in the Amazon who chops down trees because he needs to feed his family regardless of the damage he is doing, there will always be uw shooters who sell their services and footage cheaply for the extra dime in their pocket. Damn, wish I weren't such a cynic. Guess it comes with old age
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#30 DeanB

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 08:55 AM

Hi all,

I have a BBC NHU producer coming up to see some of my footage on Monday.

We will be thrashing out rates per second after he comes round from being knocked out by the quality of my stuff :)

If he does not like it he will be knocked out anyway :D ..

I will keep you installed my ocean loving brothers...

Dive safe

Dean :guiness: ;) :) :D B
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#31 Steve Douglas

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 09:01 AM

What are you asking per second if I'm not being too nosy.
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#32 DeanB

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 01:37 PM

Hi Steve,

My meeting was cancelled due to his over scheduled work commitments. But I have been told the usual banter of low budgets "Only a ten minute programme" etc... So they have suggested £6 per second for the 10min prog and higher for the other 'interested' producers with bigger budgets. I'm in constant contact with four different producers at the moment

I was talking to a very experienced NHU cameraman and he has helped on a few of the smaller progs although he did not drop his day rate he could only work with them for a week as their budgets were so small. So in a way their not lying but its an opening for me to consider. But I told them I've done my homework and to be ready for a bit of a tussle in which they seemed happy as long as I did'nt take the piss othjerwise they would pull out (sounds a bit porno)

Dive safe

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#33 CamDiver

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 11:07 PM

Dean,
Do what you think is best. Try to make them see though that your expense to supply them with imagery is not one to be taken lightly. Roughly works out at $9 a second which is less that 50% of industry norm. BBC NHU generally tend to have a budget for most productions. I would stick my neck out and look for a minimum of $12 to $15 a second......push it to seven fifty if you can. Just some advice anyway. Remember, they will judge you in the future based on the way you handle this deal.

Is the footage rare stuff, hard to get? That surely stacks the fight in your favor. It could be prudent to get a foot in the door and negotiate only for the base price at 7.50. I would then settle in to a good relationship with them. Once you've supplied footage for a couple of programmes hike the price, not ludicrously but a slight raise. If they protest tell them its due to equipment costs and overheads. Once they get comfortable with you and the supply of images becomes a stronger bond zap 'em with the billion dollars a second deal for the manta birth you filmed in Yap......yeah right.

Suggestions for my 2c worth.
Mark.

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#34 Drew

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 03:40 AM

Some little birdy told me that the rarer the clip, the higher the price. The Beeb peeps have the budget to throw around, even if they won't admit it. The same little birdy says £600 per minute, 1 minute minimum for Beeb productions. Discovery and NG hit them harder with $1200 per minute, minute minimum .
Dean, with your rates on offer, you're driving down the market. Don't ruin it for others.
Now if they are hiring you as a cameraman, then it's a whole different deal. €700 a day is norm.
Little birdy has friends who do promotional DVDs for payment in lieu, free stays at resort etc. Those friends ruin the market but the birdy says that there are those who can't afford the it ,those who can but won't and those who can and do. So really the the good ones will stay afloat and move on to HDCAM etc and the others will sink.

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#35 Nick Hope

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 06:43 AM

A lot depends on who's making the approach. If the Beeb approached Dean then he's in a lot stronger position than if he approached the Beeb.

Same goes for resort promos. If the resort approaches me then for sure they pay the going rate. But if it's my idea and I want a nice holiday, different diving, and a chance to practice my trade and build my stock, then why not give them an incentive to let me do it for free? It's not like they were about to commission a $X000 promo otherwise.

Sounds like you want us all to be a cartel which is never going to happen when the gear we use is easily available and operable by many a diver, after a fashion, without enormous expense and specialised training.

Dean, if it was your idea to approach the Beeb and you come away with £3600 for 10 mins (of pikes in Stoney Cove???) then well done. If on the other hand it's them chasing you then, as the others say, you should puff your chest out and push for a bit more.

#36 Steve Douglas

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 06:49 AM

I know this is a dumb question but all you overseas folks who talk in pounds instead of dollars have me at a loss. A pound equates to how many dollars?
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#37 Nick Hope

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 07:16 AM

1.84255

Approximately :D

(put www.oanda.com or www.xe.com in your favourites)

#38 Drew

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 08:32 AM

Same goes for resort promos. If the resort approaches me then for sure they pay the going rate. But if it's my idea and I want a nice holiday, different diving, and a chance to practice my trade and build my stock, then why not give them an incentive to let me do it for free? It's not like they were about to commission a $X000 promo otherwise.
Nick, if that is what you want to do, that's great. But you yourself as a professional shooter in the business should know doing that will probably bite you back when many other guys with HDV cams will shoot for free lodging, knocking you out of a job where it would be paid. I'm not talking about some little dive shop promo video (which if they want a professional job, they'd have to pay for it). I believe in the end most people get what they pay (or not pay) for.
Sounds like you want us all to be a cartel which is never going to happen when the gear we use is easily available and operable by many a diver, after a fashion, without enormous expense and specialised training.
Not a cartel/monopoly but maintain a professional standard. Anybody with money can buy a HDV cam with 2000° lens, and if the client wants a home production, that's fair. But when professionals start caving to get a free holiday, then the standard is lowered.
I know enough pro shooters out there working their butts off to get gigs, and I don't want to be the one (non-professional) who takes a job from a professional because I want a holiday. That's all I'm saying. Of course, said professional could be crap then they'd have to find a good shooter, that's what the market is about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


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#39 DeanB

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 08:46 AM

Hi all,

Watch this space,

Cheers Drew....

Dive safe

DeanB
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#40 Nick Hope

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 10:05 AM

Points taken Drew, and you're right, but sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do to do what you want to do.

What do you guys reckon should be the going rate for dive resort promos?