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Sony RX100 housing: Nauticam vs Ikelite, pair with Inon UFL-165AD

rx100 inon ufl-165

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#41 Interceptor121

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:19 AM



#42 kc_moses

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:40 AM

Thanks for the detail explanation! Do explain about your 3mm threaded spacer when you have the chance. I need to measure mine, but I'm pretty sure it's 4mm. I have a 67mm red filter, so if I put that on the port, then attach the WA lens, it might create issue. Right now I'm using a cut out Magic Filter that get put inside the housing, so it's more permenant underwater.

Also, do you have the dome port for you UWL-100? You mentioned 145 degree. But the UWL-100 is actually 100 degree, adding the dome port would make it 145 degree, but that make the WA port very heavy compare to the UFL-165. 100 degree is too narrow for me, I do like some where around 145 but the weight kills it, so I'm sticking with the UFL165. Also, once zoomed in the fish eye effect is not bad, but I haven't make sure it doesn't give blur edge yet.

#43 Interceptor121

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:50 AM

I got carried away what I meant is that the UWL105AD is 145 grams in water instead I said degrees Posted Image

In terms of field of view it will be around 101-104 in video mode I will need to check in water

The UFL165AD will be wide however once in water you will have the fisheye effect, I prefer lenses with 80-100 degrees for video as they have less barrell distortion

Why do you need more than 100? There are no video lights that can cover more than 115-120 degrees. Once you zoom in you get soft edges and then you are quickly back to 120 so you are not gaining much?

#44 kc_moses

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:05 PM

I need more than 100 degree FOV because of big school of fish, or big fish that's too close to frame without ultra wide (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) angle. I don't mess with light yet as I'm using natural light for now. When I invest in light, especially for night dive, wide angle would be pointless to carry into the water. I do plan to get a set of 67mm lens holder, so I can switch between WA and macro/diopter when I need to.

For video light, I'm interested at the new UK Aqualite, specifically the 90degree one. If I use dual light, then is should cover more than 100 degree area depend how far apart you point the light, but luminate distance is questionable so in general, I think light is not use much for wide angle.

You mention that once you zoomed in and swtich to video mode, you don't get vignette and focus right with the UFL165. I was just thinking, could it be because only the middle part of the camera sensor is being use since video doesn't require the whole 20m pixel

#45 Interceptor121

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:16 PM

100 degrees is more than adequate for schools of fish. Professional videographer have made do with fathom lenses with 80-90 degrees for the last 15 years

Assuming that you are say 5 meters from a school with 100 degrees you can cover 12 meters diagonal that is quite a bit

Fisheye lenses like the INON are more for close focus wide angle photography where you are at say 30cm or one foot and you cover 9 meters or 30 feet

Once you get a few meters away you can cover anyway a lot of ground

Anyway I think this is personal but just have a look at professional video equipment (camcorders) very few have a real fisheye solution

#46 Lwang

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:40 PM

If you see a wall of fish in front of you and you take a picture of it with either the UWL100 or UFL165, you will get a picture of a school of fish swimming in the shape of a almond sideways. The UFL165 would probably make it look more like a globe shaped school of fish. If it is a single fish stretched across the field of view, your picture will also look like it is stuck in a bowl. It is never going to look like a school of fish or single fish at a distance, then zoomed in in photoshop.

#47 kc_moses

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 07:06 AM

Fisheye lenses like the INON are more for close focus wide angle photography where you are at say 30cm or one foot and you cover 9 meters or 30 feet


This is the situation where I found the UFL165 is useful. Recently I went on a shark dive, as the shark get closer and closer to check us out, the wide angle helps capture the magnificent of the creature, I can see its eyes following me as it swim away, the mouth, the fin etc swimming through in front of it, while the shark is actually about a foot away from me.

I don't know about the group you dive with, most of the time if I back out a few meter away from school of fish to get them in the frame, often time you get other divers in the frame as well, hence the ultra wide (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) actually is useful to get big subject in the frame while remain at a closer distance.

Also, using the first 50 seconds of this clip as example:


I can capture a good amount of blue background, the whole coral and the fish. As I swim closer, I still can get all the fish in the frame but not physically get too close to them to scare them back to the coral.

But, like you said, it's a personal preference. I guess I'm use to the URL165 and feel more comfortable to shoot with it. Besides, like I said I try to hold on to this lens as long as possible because I try not to spend another $400 for a wide angle lens which, I already have one even though it's ultra wide (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel).

With the $400, I could invest in macro/close up. After some review, I have decided the Subsee +5 and +10 is the way to go. People complain that they can't be stack, but actually it's possible, and I have advantage over that, he he. That could be a discussion of its own.

#48 kc_moses

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 07:19 AM

Lwang,

The school of fish shot you mention is not as severe as an almond.

Using this clip as example:


The diver on the left didn't get pinch. If you look at 4:28, the ultrawide (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) angle have advantage of doing a pull back effect even though there is diver in front of you. Yes,the edge to do get blur as you zoom the camera in, but keep in mind this is video, which for me the purpose is to capture the movement.

Now, if it's for still photo or for print purpose, yes, every blur pixel or distortion is critical. The barrel distortion effects on photo could be corrected in photoshop. For now, my goal is to reuse as much of the toys as possible. If I ever get to a more pro-level, yes then the "proper angle" to use. It's a bit depressing to think that with every upgrade, the old toy just sit there and there is no resell value, hence I try to upgrade only if I have to.

#49 Interceptor121

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 10:32 AM

Hi there have a look here for your info AVCHD does not have a 30p or 25p format but only a 1080/24p...
1080/50p and 1080/60p is now part of AVCHD standard

#50 Interceptor121

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:12 AM

OK I have an update based on my testing in the bathtub with Nauticam housing
The Inon UFL165AD with a custom built adapter does not vignette at all in video mode with steadyshot set to active and neither does the UWL105AD
In video mode with steadyshot set to standard the vignetting stops at 31mm zoom
In photo mode the vignette goes away as expected at 35mm zoom
I will post some video and pictures tomorrow after the pool session

#51 kc_moses

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:43 AM

Great! Since it works, can you share the custom build adapter info?

#52 Interceptor121

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:11 AM

No special secrets is a custom spacer steel 316 machined and polished.
I am actually thinking of selling ready made parts at £40 plus postage any takers?

#53 kc_moses

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:14 AM

Can't say for sure as I'm not ready to buy the RX100 nor would I absolutely settle with the Nauticam housing. I would say make one or two and try to sell in ebay to see what's the demand. It could be a limited market as not many people hold on to their UFL-165 anymore.

#54 Interceptor121

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 02:35 AM

I definitely recommend the nauticam housing over the other three available.
I have a Canon S95 and I have the recsea housing because it allowed me to mount AD lenses so I know the pro and cons as the RX100 housing from Recsea is a copy of the S100
The Nauticam is produced by Fisheye Fix that made probably the best housing for the S100 overall and in fact it is exactly the same outside they just made some modifications including a moisture alarm that is really useful.
If you are on a budget look at the ikelite but it is a huge old fashion box, as ikelite had been struggling with the S100 and sticky buttons so they went for a non compact one for the RX100
There is a picture of my pool session with the AD lenses here
http://wp.me/p2QoIB-1v

Edited by Interceptor121, 02 November 2012 - 02:35 AM.


#55 SPP

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 05:25 AM

I definitely recommend the nauticam housing over the other three available.
I have a Canon S95 and I have the recsea housing because it allowed me to mount AD lenses so I know the pro and cons as the RX100 housing from Recsea is a copy of the S100
The Nauticam is produced by Fisheye Fix that made probably the best housing for the S100 overall and in fact it is exactly the same outside they just made some modifications including a moisture alarm that is really useful.
If you are on a budget look at the ikelite but it is a huge old fashion box, as ikelite had been struggling with the S100 and sticky buttons so they went for a non compact one for the RX100
There is a picture of my pool session with the AD lenses here
http://wp.me/p2QoIB-1v



Nauticam made compact housing for Fisheye, not the other way round.
Japan is one of the rare market in the world where customers wants the best housing even for cheap compact cameras like S100, inferior ones won't sell.
Fish Eye Japan is Nauticam Japan so to speak. They understood their own local market demand and S100 Fisheye/Nauticam was the answer and sold like hot cakes in Japan.

RecSea wanted to get a head start with RX100. They simply took their REC-S100 Tri-Nav control and place it on REC-RX100. It doesn't work well because Sony RX100 TriNav is not the same as S100 Canon. To NOT get accidental pushed-ON for an RX100 TriNav 4 quadrant buttons while spinning , the housing's exterior dial for operating mechanism of the Sony's Tri-nav can not be a spinner+buttons* ( * I mean spinner and push-able for activation of the 4 hidden switches ) combo mechanism like what RecSea uses. It has to have something like a Nauticam gimbal which is a 100% accurate for Sony Tri-Nav and is actually 2 mechanism in one assembly. Spin your RX100 TriNav and u will see what I mean. The gimbal stay still .........only the circle inside the gimbal will spin.The Nauticam housing exterior spinning dial is separated and relocated to upper level where our thumb can reach it much easier, as you will notice it on your NA-RX100. Nauticam gimbal for Sony's Tri-Nav can work on S100 too. Sony's Tri-Nav, we spin the entire Tri-Nav, hence function labels are on the camera body and not on the spinning dial. S100 one, only the outside perimeter of their Tri-Nav dial spins, the checkered and protruding one some 2-3 or so millimeters thick, hence the function labels are on the dial ( static dial ).

When one observe carefully how A manufacturer compared to B manufacturer tackled mechanical challenges for the sake of better & more reliable user experience/operation, only then one will realized how much cost goes to each and every design. Nothing is free, more complex design for better user interface = more cost to make. More mechanical links to relocate dials or button where it is for user best interest and not manufacturer financial interest = more cost.
.

#56 Interceptor121

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 06:12 AM

Good insight but the bottom line is that the same factory made the fixs95/100 and the nauticam rx100
On the subject if the read dial the joystick system on the recsea sometimes fails me I prefer the fix/nauticam system
On the front ring the recsea system is maybe better however that is not a killer is just lousy on the nauticam but because of the Sony on the s95 the same mechanism works a beauty
All in all for me nauticam was the way to go and glad I made that choice
What would be nice is a firmware update from Sony to allow custom white point set in video/..

Nauticam made compact housing for Fisheye, not the other way round.
Japan is one of the rare market in the world where customers wants the best housing even for cheap compact cameras like S100, inferior ones won't sell.
Fish Eye Japan is Nauticam Japan so to speak. They understood their own local market demand and S100 Fisheye/Nauticam was the answer and sold like hot cakes in Japan.

RecSea wanted to get a head start with RX100. They simply took their REC-S100 Tri-Nav control and place it on REC-RX100. It doesn't work well because Sony RX100 TriNav is not the same as S100 Canon. To NOT get accidental pushed-ON for an RX100 TriNav 4 quadrant buttons while spinning , the housing's exterior dial for operating mechanism of the Sony's Tri-nav can not be a spinner+buttons* ( * I mean spinner and push-able for activation of the 4 hidden switches ) combo mechanism like what RecSea uses. It has to have something like a Nauticam gimbal which is a 100% accurate for Sony Tri-Nav and is actually 2 mechanism in one assembly. Spin your RX100 TriNav and u will see what I mean. The gimbal stay still .........only the circle inside the gimbal will spin.The Nauticam housing exterior spinning dial is separated and relocated to upper level where our thumb can reach it much easier, as you will notice it on your NA-RX100. Nauticam gimbal for Sony's Tri-Nav can work on S100 too. Sony's Tri-Nav, we spin the entire Tri-Nav, hence function labels are on the camera body and not on the spinning dial. S100 one, only the outside perimeter of their Tri-Nav dial spins, the checkered and protruding one some 2-3 or so millimeters thick, hence the function labels are on the dial ( static dial ).

When one observe carefully how A manufacturer compared to B manufacturer tackled mechanical challenges for the sake of better & more reliable user experience/operation, only then one will realized how much cost goes to each and every design. Nothing is free, more complex design for better user interface = more cost to make. More mechanical links to relocate dials or button where it is for user best interest and not manufacturer financial interest = more cost.
.

y

#57 Armadilo

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:37 PM

Since i have benefited from this thread, I figure I provide some information that wasn't covered and might be useful for others.

I just gotten my Nauticam Housing yesterday for Rx100. I have a vinyl sticker on the RX100 which is about 1-1.5mm thick, similar to those that Leica have. When i tried to fit into the Nauticam, I actually need to 'squeeze' it into the housing. This is due to the clearance inside the housing is actually quite precise. However, despite being able to squeeze it, the control ring function (the one around the lens) doesn't seems to work well, i think it is again due to the same vinyl sticker doesn't allow the camera to seat in precisely inside the space. But the rest of the buttons are operating properly.

I have not removed the vinyl sticker yet and is thinking to a solution (eg of adding a piece of Bluetack to enhance the grip). Anyone else has a similar problem?

#58 kc_moses

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:42 AM

What's is the purpose of the vinyl sticker? If it's giving you so much problem that you need to "modify" the Nauticam housing, you might want do consider remove the sticker.I would imagine if you need to sit the camera toward further back of the housing, you might stress and compress the o-ring. Or if you force the housing to close with a very tight fit camera inside, the vinyl sticker would get compress over time, then you need to modify the housing (bluetack) again, or you risk damage the camera lens barrel.

#59 Interceptor121

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:51 AM

There are instances where the ring inside the housing is assembled in the reverse way, you should take a picture and send it to nauticam so they can check what needs to be done

#60 Alex_Tattersall

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:18 AM



The ring rubber that comes into contact with the lens control ring can be removed and reversed very easily by the user. Just squeeze it like an oring or gently lift out with a small screwdriver and then replace in the reverse position.

www.flickr.com/photos/alextattersall

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