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Macro with Canon in Ikelite


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#1 zzz111

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 07:27 PM

Hello everyone,

I have some questions on macro/supermacro with Canon 5D2 in Ikelite housing, really appreciate if you could help shed some light here:

- the new 100mm L lens, worth upgrading from 100macro usm? how do you rate the improvement in scales 1-5, in aspects like optical, AF speed, IS feature good or bad (given that we can't turn it on/off underwater)

- it's a little longer than the old 100macro so I figure it won't fit in the ikelite focus macro port, has someone tried the ike modular ports with this new 100mm L lens? does the ike modular focus ring work with it?

- beyond 1:1, canon 1.4x/2.0x or kenko, anyone likes to share teleconverter experience with canon 100mm? and the ike modular port configuration?

- beyond 1:1, diopter: the ike 100macro focus port is so tight there's simply no room for any dry diopter, with modular port system dry diopter should be possible, could you pls share your favorate diopter with canon 100mm?

- what are some 3rd party wet diopter options available to ike ports? experience?

Thanks alot in advance!

Edited by zzz111, 05 November 2009 - 07:31 PM.


#2 drsteve

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 12:32 AM

I was just about to post a query about the 100mm f/2.8L lens when I saw this thread. Regardless of the housing, has anyone dived with this lens on a 5D or 5D2? I have the non L series 100mm macro and have also been thinking of "upgrading." At the risk of hijacking the thread I would like to get a discussion going about the difference between the two. I played with the new lens at my local camera store and as far as I can tell the major differences/advantages for underwater work include:

* The new lens is stabilized. The older lens is not. Moreover the stabilization is both TILT and SHIFT. I have a Macromate wet diopter for 2:1 magnification and have found it quite challenging to hold my rig still enough to get good focus/framing. The tilt stabilization might really help (but then again maybe not).

* The old lens has a switch for near/far focusing ranges to help prevent hunting, but in order to get the closest focusing I have to set the widest range and I find that it hunts quite a lot. The new lens has a three position switch which has a closeup setting that EXCLUDES focusing at infinity. I expect that this will help a lot in preventing that "oh shit" moment when you are about to fire and the lens decides to hunt into the blue and takes forever to come back.

* The new lens seems to focus faster, but it is hard to quantify. It might just be wishful thinking on my part.

* I have been very happy with the sharpness of my current 100mm macro, but the new one is L glass. Hopefully that means it is even sharper. I haven't looked at the transfer function curves yet.

In any case I would love to hear if anyone has any first hand experience with the two lenses.

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#3 zzz111

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 01:43 AM

Steve,

Thanks for sharing your first hand experiece with the 100L lens on land. The 3 position focus range switch sounds cool, I too hope to hear from wetipixelers how its IS performs underwater especially with supermacro. I don't know how much improvement to expect from optics and focusing, haven't heard much on these. So the IS would really be the major point for "upgrade", if it really works well.

The size difference is quite annoying though, otherwise I can just keep my old port.

Besides, I want to try kenko 1.4x and maybe canon 500D with the old or new 100mm macro, someone here with experience on ike modular ports to hold them?

Edited by zzz111, 10 November 2009 - 01:49 AM.


#4 Bent C

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 05:51 AM

Besides, I want to try kenko 1.4x and maybe canon 500D with the old or new 100mm macro, someone here with experience on ike modular ports to hold them?


I have used both the Kenko and the 500 with the old EF 100 and Ikeīs modular portsystem. It works pretty well, however I find it to be very specific in use. I will probably add a wet diopter rather than the 500D in the future in order to have more flexibility during dives.

If you have specific questions on the set up, please let me know.

Regards

Bent
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#5 zzz111

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 08:51 AM

I have used both the Kenko and the 500 with the old EF 100 and Ikeīs modular portsystem. It works pretty well, however I find it to be very specific in use. I will probably add a wet diopter rather than the 500D in the future in order to have more flexibility during dives.

If you have specific questions on the set up, please let me know.

Regards

Bent


Bent, I'm very interested in the specific tubes you use to house the lens only, kenko 1.4 with lens, and the 3 together. Did you use the manual focus extension tube? Hope it works with the 100 macro lenses, could have a hard time without manual focus in supermacro.

I also plan to use wet diopter when I'm not sure the whole dive will be supermacro. With wet diopter, I heard it's very important to have the lens glass very close to the wet diopter, how close is your lens to the port in these modular setups? And how close is enough for wet diopter?

Thanks a lot!

#6 Bent C

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:25 AM

Bent, I'm very interested in the specific tubes you use to house the lens only, kenko 1.4 with lens, and the 3 together. Did you use the manual focus extension tube? Hope it works with the 100 macro lenses, could have a hard time without manual focus in supermacro.

I also plan to use wet diopter when I'm not sure the whole dive will be supermacro. With wet diopter, I heard it's very important to have the lens glass very close to the wet diopter, how close is your lens to the port in these modular setups? And how close is enough for wet diopter?

Thanks a lot!


The different combinations of tubes, converters and diopters surely warrants it own table of combinations. I have done such a table so I never have to think when assembling the set up (after a couple of days with 5 hour diving I really need not to have to think when combining the set up). I will find my paper and post the combinations as soon as my kids are asleep.

I used the manual focus extension, however it did not work really well. I will have to try setting everything up again dry and check why it doesnīt work, or rather why it works somewhat unpredictable. In principle it should be possible to get it to work. AF is hard to get to lock. Might be easier with the focus constraints of the new L lense. With my set up I tend to leave focus at the largest enlargement possible and use camera movement to achieve focus. I have set focus to the back of the camera in order to avoid interference between the shutter and AF.

I really donīt know how a wet diopter works with my set up. I have a SubSee on order, but I havenīt received mine yet. As far as I know, the front of the EF 100 is quite close the the port glass in the 1,4 and 100 set up, as I need to use another extension when I add the 500D. But I have not really measured the distance so it is guesswork. I am not able to help you and do the measurement now, as my housing is at Ikelite now for the lock rebuild.

Iīll be back in a couple of hours with the combos of extension tubes and lense set up.

Regards

Bent C
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#7 Bent C

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 01:09 PM

Sorry, I couldnīt find the paper with the numbers for the parts of the modular port. It is highly likely that I forgot it on Bonaire some weeks ago. I will have to look more carefully tomorrow, otherwise I will get the combinations when my housing returns from Ikelite. To bad, it took quite some time to get it all together.

Bent C
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#8 zzz111

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 07:08 PM

Thanks Bent, your answers are very helpful.

I just got a reply from Ikelite saying "there's no modular option with manual focus", that might explain why you had difficulty make the focus extension work. But I'm confused if that focus gear is not designed for 100mm macro, then what's it for? I hope you can make it work with some soft foam padding or so, and pls share the result. I admit my most frequent use of the manual focus gear is to dial streight to minimum focus distance and then move the camera, without the focus gear this is still doable in AF mode with AF function moved away from shutter, but turning a nob is much easier.

Has anyone every dreamed of having camera vendors enable us manual focus using the lens motor, say use the AE lock and zoom in buttons to drive the lens motor in and out? This will save us all the troubles with the focus gears, the motor needs to run in very low speed though. I'd be happy enough if they just have a "reset to minimum focus" function, and for this they don't need a multi-speed motor.

Bent, pls let us know how you like the mods after you get the housing back. I'm never too worried about the locks, but I'm very interested in the top mount, is it strong enough on land, hate to use 3-way ball clamp for focus light.

#9 imasleeper

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 07:26 PM

Just a couple of comments that you may or may not find helpful. I have used the older 100mm f2.8 with my 1dsmkII in a subal housing extensively. Recently I purchased the new IS version and have just returned from Fiji where I had an opportunity to put the new lens through its paces. Please remember this is just my opinion based on real world experience and should not be viewed as true lab testing.

The new lens fits in my Subal 120mm flat port just fine. Whether it fits in an ikelite rig should be easy to find out.
It is sharper than the older lens, not dramatically so, but definitely sharper. I presume this is due to the IS.
The contrast and color is excellent, but so was the older version.
It requires a 67mm adapter. The older lens used a 58mm which means you will need to purchase different diopters for the new lens. Also canon does not make a 67mm diopter which means you have to use a 67 to 72mm adapter or use third party diopters.
Tamron and Kenko Teleconverters do not work with the new IS version! The autofocus will flutter in and out of focus. Canon teleconverters will not fit, period. Tamron and Kenko teleconverters work just fine with the older 100mm.

Bottom line is that I really like the new 100mm. I think the IS works very well and adds noticeably to the crispness. My work around for not being able to use a teleconverter is to use diopters, both dry and wet versions.

imasleeper

Edited by imasleeper, 11 November 2009 - 06:39 PM.


#10 Bent C

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 12:46 PM

Thanks Bent, your answers are very helpful.

I just got a reply from Ikelite saying "there's no modular option with manual focus", that might explain why you had difficulty make the focus extension work. But I'm confused if that focus gear is not designed for 100mm macro, then what's it for?

Bent, pls let us know how you like the mods after you get the housing back. I'm never too worried about the locks, but I'm very interested in the top mount, is it strong enough on land, hate to use 3-way ball clamp for focus light.


I do not understand what that would mean. There is no focus gear (in terms of a focus ring to attach on the ring) to be used on the 100 with the modular port system, but there certainly is a manual focus extension. If the length of the extender is matched to the extension tube, manual focus should work. However, with the focus part of the modular port I have, it seems as if the part touching the lense doesnīt engage enough to drive the focusing manually. I will try to glue a bit of neoprene on the manual focus pad ans see if that helps.d
I will certainly let you know how the modification seems when my housing comes back. I havenīt been to concerned with the port locks either, but I do like the idea of more security for the price offered.

Regards

Bent

Edited by Bent C, 12 November 2009 - 12:47 PM.

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#11 ErolE

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 03:20 AM

Hi,

I am in the market for a new macro lens and have been mulling over the same question (old 100mm vs 100mm IS L). I had a read of some reviews on DPreview and elsewhere. All are unanimous in saying that the new lens is a fantastic pieces of glass and marginally shaper than the old lens. Most have felt it is one of the sharpest lenses they have every tested.

(http://www.dpreview....m_c16/page6.asp)

The reviews of the new hybrid IS system seems to suggest that it is not that useful for up close macro, with review believing it to get an extra stop. For further distance the consensus you win 2-3 stops with the IS.

So in a nutshell the question is marginally useful IS worth an extra 500USD?

Perhaps another thread asking how useful nixon shooters find the VR on 105mm lens would clear up the matter?

Erol

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#12 Bent C

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 09:39 AM

Still no one that have tried the new 100 L in an Ikelite modular port system?

/Bent C
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#13 Bent C

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 03:48 AM

Still no one that have tried the new 100 L in an Ikelite modular port system?

/Bent C


I finally got a reply from Ikelite. The new 100 works with the same modular port set up as the old does. However, the spacer for the focusing knob needs to be changed to a new spacer wich ill be available mid December.

/Bent C
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#14 DuncanS

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 04:30 PM

Sorry, I couldnīt find the paper with the numbers for the parts of the modular port. It is highly likely that I forgot it on Bonaire some weeks ago. I will have to look more carefully tomorrow, otherwise I will get the combinations when my housing returns from Ikelite. To bad, it took quite some time to get it all together.

Bent C


Bent,

Did you ever find your table or have you re-done it. Would be very interested to see the combinations that you use for various lens / teleconverter combinations

Thanks

Duncan
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#15 Bent C

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:06 PM

Bent,

Did you ever find your table or have you re-done it. Would be very interested to see the combinations that you use for various lens / teleconverter combinations

Thanks

Duncan


Actually I did not redo it. I have purchased a Subsee magnifier that I attach on the macro port. I like this solution much better than the internal diopter solution as it gives more flexibility and higher magnification rates when needed. Without the 1,4 extender I use the body part ending in .16, with the extender I use the one ending in .24.

Here are a couple of examples of pictures with the Subsee and hte 100/2,8 without extender: http://www.pbase.com...image/122802711 and http://www.pbase.com...image/122873791

Regards

Bent C
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#16 Steve Williams

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 07:24 AM

Here are a couple of examples of pictures with the Subsee and hte 100/2,8 without extender: http://www.pbase.com...image/122802711 and http://www.pbase.com...image/122873791
Bent C


Thanks Bent, are those with the +5 or the +10 ? Very nice by the way.
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#17 Bent C

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 11:03 AM

Thanks Bent, are those with the +5 or the +10 ? Very nice by the way.
Steve


They are with the 10+. I do not have the 5+ and I will not buy it either, as I find the 10+ pretty much directly taking over when the 100/2,8 doesnīt give magnification enough. I looked at some other pictures and got around 4 "stars" from the star coral along the long direction of the sensor without the Subsee. As far as I recall, the star coral in the gallery is at or close to full magnification with the Subsee. I am going on my next trip in four weeks from now and plan to try the Subsee with the 100 and a 1,4 extender.

Regards

Bent C
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