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"Oceans", what a letdown...


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#21 Huw Jenkins

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 05:33 AM

Have you some links to the movie backstage and production?

this one is interesting, french version, so google translate :)
http://www.sbcine.be...p/archives/3492

Edited by Huw Jenkins, 12 November 2010 - 05:37 AM.


#22 Drew

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 11:31 AM

This is the english version:

http://www.sbcine.be...p/archives/3402

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#23 SimonSpear

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 01:01 PM

I've not seen the film, but I've seen the 'making of'. Even though it was in French and I don't speak French very well I found it fascinating. The lengths the crew went to and their attention to detail was astounding. Just wondering how cool it would be to work with an 80million budget! Wow hehe

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#24 uwxplorer

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 10:02 PM

This is the english version:

http://www.sbcine.be...p/archives/3402

Reading this description, the Disney version is definitely different from the original:"the scene at the museum of extinct animals at Cherbourg, which is a mix of live action on green-key, real sets and 3D animation of large animals and 3D sets"?"the harpoons shot at the whales were deliberately rendered in naive way in order to make it less real" ??"The length of the film is 1h45min"??? (It is 1h24 long in the Disney version).
Dumbed down would seem to be the word...
Note that watching the Spanish-dubbed version on the DVD, which, since I don't understand Spanish, was much less annoying than the declamation of Pierce Brosnan. However, I still felt that the movie lost direction after 10-15 minutes to become a collection of disjointed sequences.
Nuff said :)
For those who read French (and the rest), there is actually a very very nice site about the movie (which fills in the missing information about location, species name, background on the shots, etc): http://www.oceans-lefilm.com/
Highly recommended!

X.

#25 Huw Jenkins

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 03:15 AM

"the scene at the museum of extinct animals at Cherbourg, which is a mix of live action on green-key, real sets and 3D animation of large animals and 3D sets"?"the harpoons shot at the whales were deliberately rendered in naive way in order to make it less real" ??"


are these scenes not in the disney version? wow that would be very lame, as these scene are really powerful, and send a better message than any words to people that some sort of action needs to be taken. (i guess when i was writing the word disney, i should have just remembered who disney's target audience is)

Funny you should say that. For the great white breach sequence, I was on the boat when they shot about 2 hours each morning to get the breach using a Arri 435 @ 150fps.

do you happen to know what stock/film speed they used? it was graded to look early morning, but the shutter speed would have to be 1/300, so did they have a little more light (ie around midday) or use a high iso?

Edited by Huw Jenkins, 13 November 2010 - 03:30 AM.


#26 Drew

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 07:59 AM

I can't really remember but I think they were Kodak Vision 2, probably ASA250.

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#27 uwxplorer

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 08:06 AM

are these scenes not in the disney version? wow that would be very lame, as these scene are really powerful, and send a better message than any words to people that some sort of action needs to be taken. (i guess when i was writing the word disney, i should have just remembered who disney's target audience is)


They are gone. The conservationist message is not set up properly, as the corresponding sequences are presented exactly like the rest of the movie: with no proper transition and no explanatory message (just the usual boring mumbling declaimed by Brosnan). In essence they seem to have wanted to mix 20,000 leagues under the sea, Blue Planet and The End of the Line in a 1.5 hr movie. I had to read the article pointed above to realize that the scene in the fishing net, where a turtle is seen dying (why the heck don't they free the poor thing, was I thinking for myself when watching this scene) and tuna fishes massacred, was shot using animatronics!!!

But again, the movie website (in French) at http://www.oceans-lefilm.com/ shows all the information that is missing (extended making of, short descriptions of each species, locations where the shots were taken - one of the MOST annoying fact of the movie is that they rarely mentioned where the species were encountered, so you would jump from the American Continent to Africa and back without actually knowing it - that's just a theoretical example, as I could not tell...)
Let it be clear: most of the sequences are stunning, some are really touching, revealing the personality of some of the species (the mammals scenes in particular).

#28 uwxplorer

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 08:30 AM

I've not seen the film, but I've seen the 'making of'. Even though it was in French and I don't speak French very well I found it fascinating. The lengths the crew went to and their attention to detail was astounding. Just wondering how cool it would be to work with an 80million budget! Wow hehe

Cheers, Simon


I just watched "Winged Migrations" from the same directors. The script is essentially the same: juxtaposition of (gorgeous) shots, uninformative commentary (at least this one was given by the director and not Pierce Brosnan and his insufferable theatrical tone). I find it very frustrating to not know more about migrations after the film than before. And as Simon, I found the making of and DVD extras much more informative than the movie itself. It is actually fascinating (and somewhat puzzling) to learn how they raised birds to be accustomed to flying nearby ultralight aircrafts, moved them across continents to shoot them in different settings, etc. Obviously, not a trick they could use underwater...

#29 jonny shaw

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 05:10 PM

I just got the Blu Ray today I'm interested to see what it's like.

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#30 Drew

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 09:41 PM

Well I like visually spectacular films about nature, especially if the cinematography is excellent. It's not a documentary but a visual exposé of the beauty that is the natural world. Le Peuple Migrateur was the first film of its kind from Perrin & Cluzaud...and I'm very happy that Oceans followed. Fortunately it broke even so there may be more on the horizon!

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#31 ronscuba

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:49 AM

I rented the Bluray on Netflix and then decided to buy it.

Looks fantastic on my HDTV and projector.

Yeah the storyline is missing and the scenes are disjointed, but the sometimes the visual artistry and beauty are enough. Isn't that why people look at and buy paintings, photography, Maxim, Playboy, etc. ?

#32 jonny shaw

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 01:33 PM

Totally agree, some of the images are stunning but it seams like they went around the world and shot a heap of stuff and then tried to stitch it together with a storyline as opposed to coming up with a story and shooting the scenes.
Looked great on Blu Ray though.

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#33 DeanB

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 02:07 PM

it seams like they went around the world and shot a heap of stuff and then tried to stitch it together with a storyline as opposed to coming up with a story and shooting the scenes.


That seems to be the thing at the moment... Wow factor sequences with little or no storyline or even story as an after thought. Its so much easier to have loads of great portrait shots than to hang around certain species and reveal new or exciting behaviour. I always find it more amazing to see some awesome behavioural traits than the subject swimming back and forth through frame.

Still I will buy it when I find it :P

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#34 jonny shaw

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 03:41 PM

That seems to be the thing at the moment... Wow factor sequences with little or no storyline or even story as an after thought. Its so much easier to have loads of great portrait shots than to hang around certain species and reveal new or exciting behaviour. I always find it more amazing to see some awesome behavioural traits than the subject swimming back and forth through frame.

Still I will buy it when I find it :P

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I do agree but I also have been watching Life and as cliche as it is BBC Nat History and Sir Dave can really put something together. It seams everyone else is just trying to catch up.

Dean: I purchased mine through Amazon and it was quick, cheap and painless. If I had waited for it in a store here in OZ I probably wouldn't have got it till 2020.

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#35 uwxplorer

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 09:16 PM

Well I like visually spectacular films about nature, especially if the cinematography is excellent. It's not a documentary but a visual exposé of the beauty that is the natural world. Le Peuple Migrateur was the first film of its kind...and I'm very happy that Oceans followed. Fortunately it broke even so there may be more on the horizon!


Microcosmos was the first, as far as I know (1996), at least from Perrin. Hard as it sounds, there was even less commentary in it than in Winged Migrations... :P

#36 Drew

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 09:52 PM

Jacques Perrin was narrator and producer but not director/writer for Microcosmos. Le Peuple Migrateur was his first animal movie as director/writer. I should've added that. My bad!
I think Baraka was the first of visual movies with no narrative, just a pure visual feast. It's not for the masses, but for those who like natural history visual imagery , these kinds of film are the best.
One has to be distinguish the difference between a TV documentary and a cinema release film of natural history. They are very different due to time constraints and visual impact in a cinema.
Look at Deep Blue and Earth, which were the cinematic releases of the TV series Blue Planet and Planet Earth. You don't have a science lesson but a visual feast with a message.
A book gives you knowledge, a magazine compresses that knowledge and TV documentaries even more. By the time you get to cinematic release, it's the visuals which are most important... at least for nature films.
Of course, there are people who incorporate stunning nature scapes with a story, but then the natural scenes are a background.

Océans is the2nd biggest grossing natural history film behind La Marche de l'Empereur, which was written for one particular species, and to me a bit too anthropomorphic. However, that was the point of the movie, and it proved very popular in the US. Océans didn't do as well in the US, probably because it wasn't in tune with the narrative demanding market the US is. It grossed more than the La Marche worldwide, which goes to show the different market tastes.
BluRay and DVD doesn't do this movie justice while a 4k cinema projection system immerses you into the experience of the film.

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#37 DeanB

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 11:54 PM

I do agree but I also have been watching Life and as cliche as it is BBC Nat History and Sir Dave can really put something together. It seams everyone else is just trying to catch up.

Dean: I purchased mine through Amazon and it was quick, cheap and painless. If I had waited for it in a store here in OZ I probably wouldn't have got it till 2020.


Cheers Jonny, I haven't really looked yet will take a gander soon...

Well to be honest the BBC NHU are at the top of their game when it comes to the big productions :) closely followed by Nat Geo and Discovery and the up and coming Waterwolf-productions :P ...

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#38 uwxplorer

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 11:54 PM

Agreed. In the end, appreciations of works of art are (and should be?) purely subjective, and moreover, can (and hopefully) will change with time, mood and experience!

#39 jonny shaw

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:11 AM

Cheers Jonny, I haven't really looked yet will take a gander soon...

Well to be honest the BBC NHU are at the top of their game when it comes to the big productions :) closely followed by Nat Geo and Discovery and the up and coming Waterwolf-productions :P ...

Dive safe

DeanB



Come on mate it definitely should be BBC, Waterwolf then the others..... those Pike are tricky little buggers

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