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DX-1G TTL strobe control


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#1 daw

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 04:45 PM

I was under the impression that the Sea and Sea DX-1G was capable of TTL strobe control via fiberoptic cable for appropriate strobes such as the YS-110. A recent posting on the thread "Upcoming Sea & Sea DX-1G camera" indicates that this is not the case. What have other people found?

#2 Scubamom

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 05:52 PM

daw,
I have been having major problems with the TTL on the YS-110 when paired with the Sea&Sea DX-1G (via fibre optic cable). I get very inconsistent results - i.e. if I take 4 shots of the same, stationery subject, without changing any settings, I will get 4 different exposures ranging from blasted out to so underexposed you can't see the picture. I have also done a dive with the YS-110 strobe paired with the Sea&Sea DX8000G, and got the same inconsistent results. However, my buddy dove my DX-1G with his Sea&Sea YS-27DX strobe & the exposures were bang on each time (although the 27DX isn't capable of TTL). I sent the information to Sea&Sea through my local dive store. The reply back asked me to send the strobe in, which has been done - I now await a response & will keep you updated.
Kathy

I was under the impression that the Sea and Sea DX-1G was capable of TTL strobe control via fiberoptic cable for appropriate strobes such as the YS-110. A recent posting on the thread "Upcoming Sea & Sea DX-1G camera" indicates that this is not the case. What have other people found?



#3 eskasi

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 03:37 AM

DX-1G is not capable of TTL as far as I know. The flash output is always the same....there is no way to change the intensity either automatically as TTL should or manually (except for the "soft flash" setting). As such, the strobe will always fire at that same intensity if you set it to TTL.

I would love to be proved wrong in this. TTL would be very welcome.

I went to the DPreview.com and read extensively on the ricoh forums. THe DX-1G is essentially a rebranded GX100. Even the hot shoe for an external flash has no TTL capabilities.

Edited by eskasi, 07 February 2008 - 03:40 AM.


#4 -Willi-

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:59 AM

I have a DX-1G and the YS120. I haven't tried them in water yet, but DS-TTL does seem to work reasonably well on dry land. Granted, some of the exposures aren't consistent, but it seems to cope well under a range of circumstances. The main problem it seems to have is with macros, when the camera is so close to the subject that little light from the flash is needed. This can lead to the strobe not firing. The solution is to ensure that ISO 80 is selected, or that the aperture is closed down. I'm looking forward to trying this out in Sharm, next week.

Richard

DX-1G is not capable of TTL as far as I know. The flash output is always the same....there is no way to change the intensity either automatically as TTL should or manually (except for the "soft flash" setting). As such, the strobe will always fire at that same intensity if you set it to TTL.

I would love to be proved wrong in this. TTL would be very welcome.

I went to the DPreview.com and read extensively on the ricoh forums. THe DX-1G is essentially a rebranded GX100. Even the hot shoe for an external flash has no TTL capabilities.



#5 eskasi

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:39 AM

I am still of the belief that the flash itself has no TTL abilities. Scubamom, I must ask you if your friend shot his DX-1G and strobe with the camera in Auto setting or perhaps the underwater setting (or any other setting apart from manual).

In all non manual settings, the camera will read the preflash output and may adjust to compensate via in camera adjustments such as ISO settings, Fstop or shutter speed. This is not true TTL which adjusts the flash intensity itself (as far as I understand).

If you shoot fully manual, I doubt TTL via the fibre optic cable will work. In auto , the camera will adjust settings (not the flash) to compensate. The YS110 is indeed capable of TTL via the fibre optic cable. This feature does not exist (or isn't useful) as the flash output on the DX-1G (or Ricoh GX100) is ALWAYS the same....and is replicated via the fibre optic cable by the YS110.

I have learned to use the manual settings for the flash intensity after a few dives. I really prefer to shoot manual for full creative control. That was one of the reasons I bought the DX-1G in the first place.

#6 eskasi

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:51 AM

Here is another test for you. Focus the camera on a subject on your table....anything.....just not too close. Make sure your camera is in manual mode and the flash is up.

Shoot something at F2.5 with a shutter speed of 1/80.........
Now shoot the same subject from the same spot at F9.1 and 1/80 (roll the front command dial to do this)

You will see that at F2.5, the picture will be overexposed......the flash simply does not change its intensity.....No TTL..... Proper TTL would have powered down the flash for accurate exposure. With TTL, both pics would have the had the same exposure.

Now, via optical cable synch, the Strobe will simply mimic the onboard flash (which ALWAYS throws out the same amount of light)

Edited by eskasi, 18 March 2008 - 08:56 AM.


#7 Jock

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 04:57 AM

Hi,

I don't know if this is a proper test for TTL: With a wide open (f/2.8) aperture and macro you will get overexposed pictures in almost all cases. The strobe just cannot shut down quick enough (my explnanation).

At least this is the case with my analog Nikonos RS - I have to compensate -1 to -2 EV for this kind of shots, unless I purposely want a high key exposure.

No idea if digital cameras behave different.

Regards,

Joerg

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#8 eskasi

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 06:43 AM

Fair enough...but I was not talking about a strobe....I meant just using the camera and onboard flash as a test topside...... if the flash itself cannot compensate for EV, then there is no TTL......and the strobe which is optically fired will replicate the same output fired by the internal flash.

It drove me insane.....I finally went to dpreview.com and searched the Ricoh forums about the GX100 which is the exact same camera. All flash info is there. People were not happy that even the hotshoe did not offer any TTL connection. There is also no way to manually adjust flash output via the options menu, only the "soft flash" option.

Edited by eskasi, 19 March 2008 - 07:04 AM.


#9 broogino

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 01:25 AM

Hi !

It seems that the flash intensity of the 1G depends on the distance of the subject.
Try this : shoot something at 4 feet in "snap" mode, it will be overexposed
Shoot with "AF on" and the exposure will be fine (better with "soft "flash)

#10 Joan Manuel

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 11:26 PM

Hi!
Olso a lot of problems with inon z-240 and g1... no ttl at all... worst lighting results than other older cameras...
I found a new firmware for gx100.. i was tried install with negative results.. imposible at all ..
Some idea?

http://www.ricoh.com...firmware/gx100/


LAST FIRMWARE SPECS
1. Modified the following phenomenon.
With the M mode (manual exposure mode), even if you press the Fn button (to set closer to the appropriate exposure automatically), it will not set closer to the appropriate exposure with the following conditions;
• Fn button assignment : AE lock
• ISO sensitivity setting : AUTO-HI
• Shutter speed to be an appropriate exposure : 1/30 or slower
2. Improved the flash control in a dark place. :D :blush: :wacko:
3. Make a change to a JPEG file that created with a RAW format file to add black borders to the top and bottom of the JPEG image, in case that you set the [RAW/JPEG setting] to [N640], and the [Pic Quality/Size] setting to [RAW 3:2] at the same time.

Edited by Joan Manuel, 11 April 2008 - 11:29 PM.

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#11 eskasi

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 12:37 AM

It won't matter what firmware or strobe you use. The strobe may be able to handle TTL optically fired (Inon Z240 or YS110)....but your 1G cannot adjust the light it emits via the strobe.

Firmware does not help. All it does is to prevent overexposure at close range...... this was a fault from earlier models. The flash fired too brightly so at close range it overexposed.

Play with your manual strobe settings. I put mine on the lowest settings to 1/3 power for MAcro and almost full for WA. Aim your flash away from the subject to avoid backscatter and light subject with edge. Take a few shots and adjust the shutter speed or aperture as required. I also use a small torch to help with focusing.

I have got good results from this.

#12 Chet Hedden

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 06:51 AM

According to the information on the Sea & Sea website the YS-17 has TTL functionality. However, when I inquired about its compatibility with the 1G, the reply from the company stated that the YS-17 "does not have the DS-TTL function" and so will not work as a TTL with the 1G. I've pointed out the contradiction and received no response. Is "DS-TTL" different from TTL?

Additionally, I've noticed two issues with my (new) 1G. First is that the built-in flash fires along with the (YS-27) strobe, even when using the sync cord. This has two consequences. First, it adds additional light along the subject-camera axis, partially defeating the purpose of angling the light away from the subject-camera axis to prevent backscatter. Second, it uses camera battery power, thus draining the camera battery and defeating another advantage of strobes, which is to operate without draining the camera battery. The sync cord appears not to have any purpose, as the strobe fires with or without it.

Besides all of that, the camera shuts down with about half (1/2) of the battery charge remaining.

Am I missing something here? If so, what?

Thanks,
Chet Hedden

#13 Chet Hedden

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 10:57 AM

Sting Ray,

This is the Sea&Sea tech support response to my question about TTL and the DX-1G:

"The YS-17 TTL strobe does allow for TTL exposure."

This is what the Sea&Sea website says about the YS-17:

"The YS-17's system uses a unique TTL function so anyone can easily enjoy TTL photography. Even if the distance to the subject changes, the YS-17 will automatically adjust the light level so you can easily get the correct exposure."

So are you saying that the strobe (YS-17, YS-110a, etc.) is capable of TTL, but just not when used with the DX-1G?

#14 oskar

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 02:18 AM

... I also use a small torch to help with focusing.


How do you work with the small torch? Do you fix it to the flash-arm, I guess you want to aim it separately from the flash? Is the hot-spot of the torch visible in your final picture afterwards?

BTW I have got the DS-TTL to work well with YS110 on land. The camera then sense te exposure from the slave-pre-flash of the YS110 and then adjust the main flash duration accordingly which YS110 then adjust its duration after.


Cheers

#15 davidvize

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 04:00 AM

All interesting stuff. I recently purchased a sea and sea DX-1G and used it for a research trip on Heron Island.
I found it to be really great, with the YS-110 strobe it was fantastic and the coaching from expedition photographer really helped too.
Refer to davidvize.blogspot.com for pics and stuff.

So this is what I have found which is pretty much in the manuals though suspiciously seems like it should be different...

The YS 110 strobe has TTL capability
the DX-1G does not.
so sad, too bad.

The cable provided is a fibre optic cable, it requires the camera body flash to fire in order to signal the strobe (yes it says so in the manual so I know you know this already). I have used electrical tape to block out all the potential light leaks from the casing except the AF sensor and AF light. This seems to reduce backscatter a lot. particularly from the second strobe port, which I originally just filled with an earplug :)

Lighting has been consistant when its fired, and best macro results seem to occur when the strobe is positioned forward of the lens (up and to the right) but tilted slightly away, reducing burn out or major light difference from one side of the image to the other.

The manual1 and manual2 settings on the strobe which is supposed to be for pre flash or not pre flash seems to work in the opposite way to instructions.
The strobe seems random in nature at times (this was before I figured out the above, but since I FLOODED my camera, I cant follow up)

I have a ricoh GX200 on the way which I hope fits the case for the DX-1g, as it will give me a few more pixels. I have queries about this to post in another forum (ie will it FIT!)

hope that helps someone.

#16 oskar

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:27 AM

The manual1 and manual2 settings on the strobe which is supposed to be for pre flash or not pre flash seems to work in the opposite way to instructions.
The strobe seems random in nature at times (this was before I figured out the above, but since I FLOODED my camera, I cant follow up)

I have a ricoh GX200 on the way which I hope fits the case for the DX-1g, as it will give me a few more pixels. I have queries about this to post in another forum (ie will it FIT!)

hope that helps someone.


I'm very interested how the GX200 will work, please post it to this forum (or tell me where you will post). How come it flooded, "human error"?

I agree on the settings, furthermore TTL setting works fine for me, it adjusts the flash power nicely most of the time. When using the one flash and WA lens, I have got decent result although I have a short flash-arm as long as I pull the flash back and point it away from the image centre.

#17 oskar

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:41 AM

I'm very interested how the GX200 will work, please post it to this forum (or tell me where you will post). How come it flooded, "human error"?


Never mind, found the thread... :-)

#18 skneisel

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 03:42 PM

I was under the impression that the Sea and Sea DX-1G was capable of TTL strobe control via fiberoptic cable for appropriate strobes such as the YS-110. A recent posting on the thread "Upcoming Sea & Sea DX-1G camera" indicates that this is not the case. What have other people found?


I have used the DX-1G and YS110 together extensively on a 10-day trip to Hawaii and a 42-day trip to Thailand and Indonesia. While the camera and strobe have DS-TTL capability, I never found that it worked very well, so I switched to manual. Manual works much better, but I find that it takes me several attempts to fine tune the strobe settings, especially for macro shots. I also have a problem that both strobes fire intermittently, which is a widespread problem with the YS110 strobe when used on the DX-1G. I've heard it starts out great and gets worse over time. What an expensive disappointment.

#19 sideways

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 06:07 PM

Last 2 dives since receiving my adapter piece, My TTL seems to be working good. Yes its not true TTL, we knew that from Sea and Sea's own admission though. I do get fairly consistent results, and with the new adaptor, my prior misfire problem seems to be solved.


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#20 oskar

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 06:01 AM

Last 2 dives since receiving my adapter piece, My TTL seems to be working good. Yes its not true TTL, we knew that from Sea and Sea's own admission though. I do get fairly consistent results, and with the new adaptor, my prior misfire problem seems to be solved.
Greg


Could you post a pic of the adapter please? Although i don't have so much problem with missfire right now, i might make one anyway to make it better and to block the internal flash, which i need to do anyway.

cheers