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Panasonic LUMIX GH5 for underwater video

GH5 Panasonic Panasonic GH5 Panasonic LUMIX GH5 DMC-GH5

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#221 Pajjpen

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 09:49 PM

Impressive, barely any noise what so ever. Did you denoise this? Do you remember your settings here?

This is about 28 meters with 8mm lens


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#222 dreifish

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:31 PM

First, I don't think crop sensors are a disadvantage in terms of noise performance underwater, because if shooting THE SAME DEPTH OF FIELD on a Full Frame sensor or a m4/3 one, your noise performance will be the same. Yes, a full frame sensor will have about a 2 stop advantage in terms of ISO performance over m4/3, but that's entirely negated by the fact that you need to shoot at a narroer aperture on full frame in order to keep your corners sharp. Basically, when using a full frame camera, I almost never shoot at anything below F8 for wide-angle. Usually at F11. With the GH5, I'm usually at F4 or F5.6. Which means my ISO is 200 or so on m4/3, and 800 or so on full frame. Guess what? That gives you basically identical noise performance.

 

A full frame camera will still have better dynamic range and higher resolution, but whether that matters largely depends on what you intend to do with the photos. Unless you're making really large prints, I think the GH5 is perfectly adequate for stills. About half the photos in my portfolio are taken with a GH4 and the other half with a Nikon D800 and Sony A7RII. I'd be surprised if many people would be able to guess which is which. 



#223 Interceptor121

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 12:06 AM

First, I don't think crop sensors are a disadvantage in terms of noise performance underwater, because if shooting THE SAME DEPTH OF FIELD on a Full Frame sensor or a m4/3 one, your noise performance will be the same. Yes, a full frame sensor will have about a 2 stop advantage in terms of ISO performance over m4/3, but that's entirely negated by the fact that you need to shoot at a narroer aperture on full frame in order to keep your corners sharp. Basically, when using a full frame camera, I almost never shoot at anything below F8 for wide-angle. Usually at F11. With the GH5, I'm usually at F4 or F5.6. Which means my ISO is 200 or so on m4/3, and 800 or so on full frame. Guess what? That gives you basically identical noise performance.
 
A full frame camera will still have better dynamic range and higher resolution, but whether that matters largely depends on what you intend to do with the photos. Unless you're making really large prints, I think the GH5 is perfectly adequate for stills. About half the photos in my portfolio are taken with a GH4 and the other half with a Nikon D800 and Sony A7RII. I'd be surprised if many people would be able to guess which is which. 


Dreifish is spot on you have at least two stops benefit with full frame however where you shoot f/4 in a mft fisheye with ff you are qt f/8 negating the benefit for ambient light wide angle.
The resolution however is much better with full frame and this is something that doesn’t go away if you print. On a screen unless is 4K you don’t see the benefits and in video definitely you don’t see them.
As a paradox I have seen full frame having much better performance in macro because mft have quite a bit of diffraction from f/11 onwards and at f/16 most lenses are weak and become garbled at f/22. Full frame you keep sharpness until the smallest aperture and the resolution is amazing


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#224 dreifish

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 05:50 AM

Dreifish is spot on you have at least two stops benefit with full frame however where you shoot f/4 in a mft fisheye with ff you are qt f/8 negating the benefit for ambient light wide angle.
The resolution however is much better with full frame and this is something that doesn’t go away if you print. On a screen unless is 4K you don’t see the benefits and in video definitely you don’t see them.
As a paradox I have seen full frame having much better performance in macro because mft have quite a bit of diffraction from f/11 onwards and at f/16 most lenses are weak and become garbled at f/22. Full frame you keep sharpness until the smallest aperture and the resolution is amazing


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But why would you shoot macro at F16 or F22 on m4/3? At F11 on m4/3, you get the same depth of field and diffraction characteristics as you would at F22 full-frame. Some full-frame sensors have more megapixels to crop into, but in actuality you get greater magnification in m4/3. 1:1 macro for m4/3 works out to filling the frame with a subject that would require 1:2 reproduction ratio on full frame to fill the frame. So in terms of detail, you should be able to extract more detail from small subjects with m4/3 than full frame simply because the pixel density is greater. Diffraction scales with depth of field, so it's ultimately equivalent for the same depth of field across different formats. 

 

The main advantage I see for macro with full-frame cameras is actually faster focusing with less hunting at macro distances. And I think that's primarily an advantage with newer generation Nikon (and perhaps Canon -- I have no personal experience) bodies. The 90mm macro on Sony A7x bodies is also quite slow to focus, like the 45mm and 60mm macro lenses on m4/3.



#225 Interceptor121

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 06:40 AM

But why would you shoot macro at F16 or F22 on m4/3? At F11 on m4/3, you get the same depth of field and diffraction characteristics as you would at F22 full-frame. Some full-frame sensors have more megapixels to crop into, but in actuality you get greater magnification in m4/3. 1:1 macro for m4/3 works out to filling the frame with a subject that would require 1:2 reproduction ratio on full frame to fill the frame. So in terms of detail, you should be able to extract more detail from small subjects with m4/3 than full frame simply because the pixel density is greater. Diffraction scales with depth of field, so it's ultimately equivalent for the same depth of field across different formats. 
 
The main advantage I see for macro with full-frame cameras is actually faster focusing with less hunting at macro distances. And I think that's primarily an advantage with newer generation Nikon (and perhaps Canon -- I have no personal experience) bodies. The 90mm macro on Sony A7x bodies is also quite slow to focus, like the 45mm and 60mm macro lenses on m4/3.


There are plenty of subjects that you need f/16 if you want to focus more than the eyes like pygmies, bobtail squid, shaun the sheep nudis and you can’t really work out with f/11 likewise you want more depth of field on a larger subject if you want to focus the whole fish I have plenty of examples where the same shot on the same subject looks better on a full frame but less so on ambient light wide angle


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#226 lutfu

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 07:36 AM

Hello Pajpen

my settings were f 6.3  sh 60 and iso was 250     noise rduction 0   long shtr noise reducrion  off

glad you liked it..



#227 dreifish

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 07:20 AM

There are plenty of subjects that you need f/16 if you want to focus more than the eyes like pygmies, bobtail squid, shaun the sheep nudis and you can’t really work out with f/11 likewise you want more depth of field on a larger subject if you want to focus the whole fish I have plenty of examples where the same shot on the same subject looks better on a full frame but less so on ambient light wide angle


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But if you need f/16 on m4/3 to get the entire subject in focus, then you'd need f/32 on full frame, not f16 to get the same depth of field. And the loss of resolution to diffraction would be the same (assuming the same pixel size). The shot may look better on full frame because of dynamic range, for example, but assuming the same level of magnification and the same depth of field, they should look basically identical if I understand the physics correctly.



#228 Architeuthis

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 09:38 AM

dreifish,

Even the dynamic range is comparable between FF and MFT, in case you shoot MFT at 200 and FF at 800 ISO, as you propose. See e.g.: https://www.dxomark...._1177_1136_1006

 

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#229 Interceptor121

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 11:10 AM

I don't have a scientific explanation however look at those charts

 

This is a Nikkor 105 on a Nikon D800

 

https://www.dxomark....asurements__814

 

Perceived resolution around 5 megapixels

 

This is the Olympus 60mm on a OMD-EM1 Mark II

 

https://www.dxomark....surements__1136

 

Perceived resolution 3 or less megapixels

 

In theory if you look at imatest etc looks like the two outcome are comparable but when you look at the same subject at those apertures it is not

 

In terms of dynamic range you don-t see that in macro what you see is more colours due to the sensor so maybe the combination of colours and resolution together gives a better look

 

For wide angle shots in ambient light not much to say for shots with strobes FF always much better colours

 

For me is not much the dynamic range but the color depth and resolution where FF beats MFT however for video resolution does not matter and colours are anyway 8 or 10 bits so the extra 2-3 bits you have simply are not visible


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#230 dreifish

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:21 AM

Interceptor, in the DXOLabs charts you linked, if you compare the percieved resolution with the Olympus at F11 and the Nikon at F22, they're both orange. Or compare F5.6 vs F11 for that matter. Perceived resolution looks pretty similar to me. Where are you seeing 3 vs 5mpix? 

 

A full frame sensor does have better color discrimination, but again, that's ISO dependent--just like noise and dynamic range--as Architeuthis pointed out. So for instance, the EM1 has better color sensitivity at ISO200 (23.7 bits) than the D850 does at ISO800 (22.6 bits). Of course, if you're not limited by depth of field and can choose use ISO 200 on the D850, you'll get better color sensitivity (25.1 bits) -- about 2 stops better, as we would expect given that the sensor has 4 times the light gathering area. 

 

In wide angle shots with strobes, you are no longer depth of field limited, so if you end up shooting both at, say, F8, ISO 200, then yes, of course the full frame sensor is going to show greater resolution, color sensitivity and dynamic range, since you're not limited by the depth of field as you would be with macro. 



#231 Interceptor121

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 10:23 AM

Am looking at the sharpness tabs not the global ones


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#232 Migas

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 08:31 PM

Anyone using the GH5 with Nauticam housing and the Lumix 14-42 power zooming the WWL-1?

How heavy does it get underwater? 

Is the WWL-1 easy to keep attached to the set up while not being used? (to make sure it does not change buoyancy from wide to macro)

 

My wife is looking for a solution to shoot macro and wide on same dive with good results.

 

Any tips on good video set ups are appreciated :)







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