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#1 Interceptor121

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 02:20 AM

It may be a dumb question
Is there a camera or recorder that supports HDR in some form?
I now have an HDR Tv and the difference between HDR and 4K is staggering


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#2 wydeangle

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 07:47 AM

Interceptor121,

The Sony AX700 says it can...

 

Tom



#3 Interceptor121

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 08:25 AM

Have been googling it says the GH5 also support HLG?
But I guess most people use Vlog and grading?


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#4 dreifish

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 02:57 PM

The Panasonic GH5/GH5s support shooting straight in HLG in 10bit, which will give you an HDR file you can play directly on your TV if your tv supports HLG without the need for any grading.

 

The Sony A7RIII/A7III also has HLG, but only in an 8 bit file, so it's not really HDR in the true sense (HDR usually requires a 10bit or 12bit container).

 

Also with any number of other cameras that allow you to film in a 10bit log mode or higher, you can grade the footage using DaVinci Resolve or Final Cut Pro X 10.4 and finish it in HDR. 



#5 Pete L

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 07:19 PM

Keepin mind that HDR is not resolution specific. Comparing HDR to 4K is not really a viable comparison.
 


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#6 Interceptor121

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 11:24 PM

@Pete L I am aware that you can have HDR without 4K but practically this never happens. Only some new Sony HDTV have HDR and all commercial HDR material is 4K
@dreifish so the road to HDR is to shoot LOG 10 bit 4:2:0 and then make a file HDR compatible or shoot HLG directly. Looking at GH5 documentation you have 3 options 400 mbps all intra 150 mbps long gop and 72 mbps hevc long hop. So in theory if I am happy with long gop I could shoot HDR in HEVC using a standard UHS 3 card?



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#7 dreifish

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 04:38 AM

@Pete L I am aware that you can have HDR without 4K but practically this never happens. Only some new Sony HDTV have HDR and all commercial HDR material is 4K
@dreifish so the road to HDR is to shoot LOG 10 bit 4:2:0 and then make a file HDR compatible or shoot HLG directly. Looking at GH5 documentation you have 3 options 400 mbps all intra 150 mbps long gop and 72 mbps hevc long hop. So in theory if I am happy with long gop I could shoot HDR in HEVC using a standard UHS 3 card?



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So HDR delivery right now happens in a 10bit 4:2:0 H265 file. For professional work, you usually need to acquire the footage at a higher bit-depth and color fidelity than the final delivery format to allow adequate room for color grading in post-production. So ideally you'd want something like a RAW 12+bit acquisition or at least Prores444 (which is a 12bit 4:4:4 format) if you want to get content for commercial HDR delivery.  

 

The GH5 lets you shoot 10bit 4:2:2 at up to 30fps in either 150mb/s LongGOP h.264 or 400mb/s All-I h.264. You also can record in 10bit 4:2:0 LongGOP H265 files at 200mbs in the Anamorphic mode (which gives you a 4:3 aspect ratio 6k image) and 10bit 4:2:0 LongGOP H264 at 72mbs at regular 4k resolutions. 

 

So yeah, you could shoot either the 150mb/s 10bit 4:2:2 h.264 or 72mb/s 10bit 4:2:0 h.265 option in HLG and play the file directly on any HDR tv that supports HLG. Caveat being that I dunno which TVs actually support HLG. The Samsung TV I bought last year only had HDR10. Dunno if they since updated the firmware to support HLG as well or if the 2018 model TVs support HLG out of the box. I guess some of them must.


Edited by dreifish, 13 May 2018 - 04:48 AM.


#8 Interceptor121

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 05:18 AM

 
So HDR delivery right now happens in a 10bit 4:2:0 H265 file. For professional work, you usually need to acquire the footage at a higher bit-depth and color fidelity than the final delivery format to allow adequate room for color grading in post-production. So ideally you'd want something like a RAW 12+bit acquisition or at least Prores444 (which is a 12bit 4:4:4 format) if you want to get content for commercial HDR delivery.  
 
The GH5 lets you shoot 10bit 4:2:2 at up to 30fps in either 150mb/s LongGOP h.264 or 400mb/s All-I h.264. You also can record in 10bit 4:2:0 LongGOP H265 files at 200mbs in the Anamorphic mode (which gives you a 4:3 aspect ratio 6k image) and 10bit 4:2:0 LongGOP H264 at 72mbs at regular 4k resolutions. 
 
So yeah, you could shoot either the 150mb/s 10bit 4:2:2 h.264 or 72mb/s 10bit 4:2:0 h.265 option in HLG and play the file directly on any HDR tv that supports HLG. Caveat being that I dunno which TVs actually support HLG. The Samsung TV I bought last year only had HDR10. Dunno if they since updated the firmware to support HLG as well or if the 2018 model TVs support HLG out of the box. I guess some of them must.


I have an LG OLEDB7 it supports all formats including HLG
So essentially I need to put my hands on a GH5!


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#9 bubffm

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 01:11 PM

I have tried HDR on my GH5 underwater and I did not really get any satisfactory results. Its a delivery format and not suited for serious color correction, which you usually do need to some extend for underwater footage.

There are some undeewater Gh5 HLG clips on Youtube. All equally unconvinicing in my view.

Edited by bubffm, 13 May 2018 - 01:12 PM.


#10 Interceptor121

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 01:13 PM

I have tried HDR on my GH5 underwater and I did not really get any satisfactory results. Its a delivery forma5 and not suited for serious color correction, which you usually do need to some extend for underwater footage.

There are some undeewater Gh5 HLG clips on Youtube. All equally unconvinicing in my view.


Do you have a link? If your screen doesn’t support it (and most computer screens don’t) you won’t see benefits


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#11 bubffm

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 05:39 AM

I have an HLG capable TV and I see a huge difference on true HLG clips compared to std rec709. On underwater HLG I have yet to see that difference.

Here an example that in my view did not work out:
https://youtu.be/wWdZtbR_Prc

I wont even post my HLG trials as they look equally sh@tty :) I got much closer to seeing HDR-like results using LOG, so Ill try to refine my LOG skills a bit more.

Edited by bubffm, 17 May 2018 - 05:43 AM.


#12 Interceptor121

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:01 AM

I have an HLG capable TV and I see a huge difference on true HLG clips compared to std rec709. On underwater HLG I have yet to see that difference.

Here an example that in my view did not work out:
https://youtu.be/wWdZtbR_Prc

I wont even post my HLG trials as they look equally sh@tty :) I got much closer to seeing HDR-like results using LOG, so Ill try to refine my LOG skills a bit more.

This video has been set incorrectly for delivery as my Tv doesn’t flag HDR (and it always does it supports all standards)


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#13 bubffm

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:44 PM

Possible.  But I get nothing better and I do get an HLG trigger on my TV.



#14 Interceptor121

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:00 AM

I have looked at other videos if this youtuber and they all look ugly
They are coming out straight from camera and am not sure how they are uploaded in youtube


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#15 Lionfi2s

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 11:59 PM

I have an HLG capable TV and I see a huge difference on true HLG clips compared to std rec709. On underwater HLG I have yet to see that difference.

Here an example that in my view did not work out:
https://youtu.be/wWdZtbR_Prc

I wont even post my HLG trials as they look equally sh@tty :) I got much closer to seeing HDR-like results using LOG, so Ill try to refine my LOG skills a bit more.

This video doesn't bring out any HDR/HLG flags on my tv either and definitely something is wrong with it. I would not consider it a realistic sample of what HLG can do underwater



#16 bubffm

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 06:16 AM

If anyone shoots a convincing HLG clip underwater and uploads with the correct flagging for our viewing pleasure, I buy him/her a beer

With the need to color correct, I just believe LOG is better suited for underwater HDR footage than some WYSIWYG pre-baked format.

Edited by bubffm, 20 May 2018 - 06:16 AM.


#17 Interceptor121

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 07:23 AM

That sounds like a nice challenge
However the colour correcting part is not really the point? My understanding is that only the gamma curve is different between log and HLG so you should be able to grade anyway?
From other tests I have seen it also appears that HLG reacts better to noise with footage leas grainy
Anyway you are right this is all theory we need some samples


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#18 Lionfi2s

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 11:02 PM

So being playing a bit with HLG just to learn the workflow of it. Nothing yet underwater.

My findings for anyone interested:

I am working on the free version of Davinci resolve and output on H264 doesn't trigger any HLG or HDR flag since at least for Resolve H264 is 8 bit only.

I exported in DNxHQ or Prores 422 and it does bring up HLG flags on you tube but the files are really big especially if output is 4K. I haven't managed yet to get a flag when using the H265 option. Still looking at it as it should do the job.



#19 Interceptor121

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 05:55 AM

Got the GH5 I can successfully create HDR with final cut pro x and also create triggers in youtube for HDR


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#20 Interceptor121

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 06:56 AM

So being playing a bit with HLG just to learn the workflow of it. Nothing yet underwater.
My findings for anyone interested:
I am working on the free version of Davinci resolve and output on H264 doesn't trigger any HLG or HDR flag since at least for Resolve H264 is 8 bit only.
I exported in DNxHQ or Prores 422 and it does bring up HLG flags on you tube but the files are really big especially if output is 4K. I haven't managed yet to get a flag when using the H265 option. Still looking at it as it should do the job.

Youtube doesnt support h265. You need h264 10 bits or vp9 profile 2
Apparently you need the paid version as the free converts everything to 8 bits or so they say on YouTube

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Edited by Interceptor121, 25 May 2018 - 07:10 AM.

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