Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

New 7D Review up on DPReview


  • Please log in to reply
62 replies to this topic

#21 Rocha

Rocha

    Salty Dog

  • Senior Moderator
  • 3078 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California Academy of Sciences, San Francisco, CA

Posted 11 November 2009 - 10:16 PM

unfortunately the macro focus limited is too narrow to be of much use UW


Oh, I didn't actually read the review, all Nikon here :blush: Is it not a 1:1 lens? I thought it was...

Luiz Rocha - www.luizrocha.com
Nikon D800, Aquatica AD800, Ikelite strobes.


#22 Otara

Otara

    Sting Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 260 posts

Posted 11 November 2009 - 10:30 PM

I agree that there didnt seem to be much advantage for the new 100mm for underwater, given it said no real sharpness advantage for 5.6 on and less than a stop from the IS for macro.

Pity, but does save the bank balance a tad.

#23 fotoscubo714

fotoscubo714

    Sting Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 272 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sherman Oaks, Ca.
  • Interests:Boat diving
    Cold water diving
    Tropical location diving
    Freediving
    Ocean Kayaking
    Nitrox Tech diving
    CCR diving
    Digital and Film Photography (duh)
    HD Videography

Posted 12 November 2009 - 10:40 AM

Darwin Wigget says image quality is poor and soft. See his report.

http://darwinwiggett...1/the-canon-7d/

I upgraded to the Canon 7D from a Canon D10 and happy with my images.

Anyone here with a more recent upgrade and found similar poor image quality as reported by Darwin compared to perhaps a Canon D40 or Canon D50?

Aren't these issues upgrade fixable?

Just curious from other 7D owners.


Bo


The first real data is in, Check out the review here;

http://www.dpreview....ews/canoneos7d/

The short version;
"It offers excellent image quality in all shooting situations and an impressive speed of operation, combined with very good build quality and ergonomics. Both its specification and the results of our testing make it a very easy recommendation."

Have fun!
Steve


Edited by fotoscubo714, 12 November 2009 - 10:47 AM.

7D and Oly E-PL1 (yet 2b housed) , D10 in upgraded Ike;
Sigma, Tokina and Tamron lenses.
Vintage film NikIII, 35mm & 2.1/4 housings.

#24 Steve Williams

Steve Williams

    Humpback Whale

  • Moderator
  • 3135 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tucson, Arizona
  • Interests:Protecting our Ocean, Environmental Education,
    Having fun and Living Well

Posted 12 November 2009 - 11:05 AM

Interesting stuff Bo. It bothers me that they used two different RAW converters then compared files.

More study required,
Steve

The Fin Foundation
HSWImages.com        My Images on Flikr

Canon 5D Mk III, 7D & 40D, 60mm, 100mm, 17-40L, Tokina 10-17, Nauticam 7D, Sea & Sea MDX-40D YS-250's ULCS arms, Lightroom


#25 Stewart L. Sy

Stewart L. Sy

    Great White

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 941 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Richmond, BC

Posted 12 November 2009 - 11:28 AM

I haven't experienced the same issues as Darwin. While I highly respect and admire his work as a photographer with amazing vision, I also respect the comments made below his review by Royce Howland, Executive Editor of Naturescapes.Net. I do think 7D files need more sharpening but takes it well. I haven't had time to do any fun shooting with it aside from shots of my son, but do plan on trying out large prints with it.

Stu

www.stewartsy.com
SLS Photography, when your images matter....
Aquatica, Amphibico, TLC, ULCS (Philippines), Stix, iTorch, FIT, Magic Filter Dealer
Philippine Dive Trip Specialist


#26 Mariozi

Mariozi

    Sting Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 205 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dubai UAE

Posted 13 November 2009 - 11:17 AM

A 7D vs. D300s comparison I found on the web:

"I don't think all the points are important but most are, and there are certainly somethings that the 7D has that is better than the D300s. Incl better Video, two-axis virtual horizon... ...3 customs settings (Nikon should change Qual to C-S with 4 or more custom settings that are locked), there are maybe others to, but anyway here is the list from (omitted)... ...and in typical... ...war got started:

* No power regulation, so camera is at mercy of battery level; per 7D manual: "When the battery level is low, the continuous shooting speed will be slightly slower."
* Only 19 selectable AF points, not 51
* Spot metering not linked to AF focus point
* No focus confirmation light during continuous autofocus
* Cannot assign spot/center/matrix metering to any button
* Mirror-up buried in menus and cannot be assigned to a button
* Only one preset white balance supported, not four
* Setting of manual/preset white balance exceedingly complicated and involved
* Cannot assign white balance preset measuring to a button
* Cannot make auto-exposure lock "sticky" (AE-L Hold)
* Cannot assign bracketing to any button
* Exposure bracketing limited to 3 exposures only
* Exposure bracketing limited on 1/2 or 1/3 stop apart
* Cannot use exposure bracketing if flash enabled
* Cannot bracket flash exposure
* Cannot use manual mode with exposure bracketing
* Cannot use auto ISO in manual mode
* Cannot use autoexposure lock in manual mode
* Cannot use exposure compensation in manual mode
* Any flexible-program shift in P mode cancelled by every shutter release
* Timer does not lock autoexposure so must use separate eyepiece cover
* Camera turns itself off on you
* No control of flash for balanced fill-flash vs subject illumination
* LCD panel blacked out when power off
* No AF assist light separate from popup flash
* No built-in interval timer
* Auto-display of last shot not full review mode
* No matrix metering for non-CPU lenses because cannot set aperture and focal length for non-CPU lenses
* Per 30D review: "Picture Style tone curve not indicated in camera menu (contrast is an offset, not absolute)"
* Only 26 custom functions, not 48

Not to mention that Nikon offer a better warranty, so before getting that new 7D, think, what will it really offer you

(omitted)"
Marcelo Mariozi - UWPhoto.ae
EUPS - Emirates Underwater Photographic Society Member
Nikon D300 on Sea&Sea MDX-D300 w/ YS-110 (2x) & Nikon F80s on Sea&Sea NX-80 w/ YS-90 + YS-120 & Nikonos V
Nikkors 10.5mm/2.8, 10-24mm/3.5-4.5, 16mm/2.8, 14-24mm/2.8, 50mm/1.4, 60mm/2.8, 105mm/2.8, 70-200mm/2.8; Sigmas 4.5mm/2.8 8mm/4, Kenko PRO300 3x TC.

#27 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10706 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 13 November 2009 - 12:07 PM

From his intro paragraph, sounds like he had a demo prototype vs a production model. Whereas the DPReview camera claims to use a production model for their tests.
It also seems some of those shots were softer due to the diffraction limits of the 7D sensor. At 18mp on an APS-C, there's got to be diffraction at f11-16.

As for the Nikon/Canon debate, welll, I have a life and lenses on both makes :blush:

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#28 hyptest

hyptest

    Clownfish

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 21 posts
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 13 November 2009 - 09:10 PM

Just a quick note that one of the more significant deficiencies listed there is incorrect. The 7d DOES support Auto-ISO in manual mode.

eric


...
* Cannot use auto ISO in manual mode
...



#29 Steve Williams

Steve Williams

    Humpback Whale

  • Moderator
  • 3135 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tucson, Arizona
  • Interests:Protecting our Ocean, Environmental Education,
    Having fun and Living Well

Posted 13 November 2009 - 10:45 PM

* Camera turns itself off on you
* LCD panel blacked out when power off


Mariozi
Partner, I'm glad you love your Nikon, I really am, but to put a list like this up with no source referenced is highly questionable in my mind. I was going to respond to each item in turn but it's really not worth my time. I can't find one item on your list that impacts me as an underwater shooter. Somebody is really stretching.....

Camera turns itself off on you? Yes, at the time period you set in the preference in order to save the battery and oh by the way comes back up instantly when you touch the shutter.

LCD panel blacked out when power off. Your kidding right? Someone slid that in to see if anybody was actually going to read this $&@#. When you turn off a Nikon what does it do?

It turns out it wasn't all bad, I figured that if this is the best the naysayers can come up with, the 7D must be a damn fine camera. You pushed me over the edge and I ordered mine tonight.

Have fun,
Steve

The Fin Foundation
HSWImages.com        My Images on Flikr

Canon 5D Mk III, 7D & 40D, 60mm, 100mm, 17-40L, Tokina 10-17, Nauticam 7D, Sea & Sea MDX-40D YS-250's ULCS arms, Lightroom


#30 Mariozi

Mariozi

    Sting Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 205 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dubai UAE

Posted 14 November 2009 - 04:25 AM

to put a list like this up with no source referenced is highly questionable in my mind.


I perfectly agree with you Steve, I was just trying to protect the source in a way. (Or protecting me from the CMD-C, CMD-V)
But since you mentioned it, I found it here.
From one Tom Christiansen, I am not sure if it is the same Tom from NeuroChrome...

I am glad you did not go through much of them, because to be honest I didn't! :blush:
Well in fact I couldn't since I don't have the camera, as always we have to rely on info from the net.
Good that you misspelled some of that.

We both love what we use Steve, we have grown on it and learned to trust it.
The way I read the DPreview article to put it like: "They loved it" can be read as a bit of stretching also.
Quoting my first post:

"... in many ways the two cameras are not too dissimilar, and it will be down to personal taste and probably your lens collection if you prefer one over the other." - DPreview

The trouble is that apart from the added movie mode D300 technology have been around for more than 2 years.
Of course for the X0D line that is a big change from the 50D review, I guess that's even the reason behind the name change.
As I said, it is good for all of us that finally Canon caught up to it in the APS-C flagship line, makes me a lot more curious for the next step from both companies.

Good Luck
Marcelo Mariozi
Marcelo Mariozi - UWPhoto.ae
EUPS - Emirates Underwater Photographic Society Member
Nikon D300 on Sea&Sea MDX-D300 w/ YS-110 (2x) & Nikon F80s on Sea&Sea NX-80 w/ YS-90 + YS-120 & Nikonos V
Nikkors 10.5mm/2.8, 10-24mm/3.5-4.5, 16mm/2.8, 14-24mm/2.8, 50mm/1.4, 60mm/2.8, 105mm/2.8, 70-200mm/2.8; Sigmas 4.5mm/2.8 8mm/4, Kenko PRO300 3x TC.

#31 RedSeaDiver

RedSeaDiver

    Sting Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 238 posts
  • Location:Australia

Posted 14 November 2009 - 05:12 AM

I figured that if this is the best the naysayers can come up with, the 7D must be a damn fine camera. You pushed me over the edge and I ordered mine tonight.

You wasn't tempted to go full frame and 5DII Steve?
Red Sea Dreaming....

Canon 7D, Tokina 10-17, Sigma 10-20, Sigma 17-70, Canon 100mm macro, Kenko 1.4x Teleconverter, Nauticam housing when it arrives, 2x Inon Z240 strobes, Lowepro Vertex 300 AW backpack.

#32 jeremypayne

jeremypayne

    Great White

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1199 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York City

Posted 14 November 2009 - 06:08 AM

I am glad you did not go through much of them, because to be honest I didn't! :blush:


Sorry, dude ... but you're an idiot.
Jeremy Payne
My Website

#33 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10706 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 14 November 2009 - 07:25 AM

Ok guys, please keep this civil!

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#34 Steve Williams

Steve Williams

    Humpback Whale

  • Moderator
  • 3135 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tucson, Arizona
  • Interests:Protecting our Ocean, Environmental Education,
    Having fun and Living Well

Posted 14 November 2009 - 08:33 AM

You wasn't tempted to go full frame and 5DII Steve?


I considered it for a while but I'm very happy with the 40D and it's APS-C sensor underwater (It's a heck of a camera for the money now). The Tokina 10-17 is amazing for what I want to do and I have a long way to go before I fully explore the opportunities the 60mm and 100mm offer. If I was a landscape guy or shot portraits or weddings it might be a different story. The initial pull for me to consider the MkII was the video capability. Now that the 7D offers full HD, I'm golden.

Mariozi, thanks for the reference, I usually never read all the comments on a site like that, too hard to know if the folks making those comments actually know what they are talking about. Vicariously watching measurebators makes me feel awkwardly sullied and unclean and besides it makes my head hurt.

It was never a Nikon vrs Canon thing for me. I have a boatload of Canon glass I like and the only thing I was worried about was the image quailty of the new sensor and software processing. The question for me was, can the new 7D system handle all those pixels. The DPReview showed me images that answered that question for me.


Have fun,
Steve

Edited by Steve Williams, 14 November 2009 - 04:18 PM.

The Fin Foundation
HSWImages.com        My Images on Flikr

Canon 5D Mk III, 7D & 40D, 60mm, 100mm, 17-40L, Tokina 10-17, Nauticam 7D, Sea & Sea MDX-40D YS-250's ULCS arms, Lightroom


#35 Steve Williams

Steve Williams

    Humpback Whale

  • Moderator
  • 3135 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tucson, Arizona
  • Interests:Protecting our Ocean, Environmental Education,
    Having fun and Living Well

Posted 14 November 2009 - 10:39 AM

Another well written review on the 7D from Camera labs in NZ. This one I could understand.

http://www.cameralab...s/Canon_EOS_7D/

Have fun,
Steve

The Fin Foundation
HSWImages.com        My Images on Flikr

Canon 5D Mk III, 7D & 40D, 60mm, 100mm, 17-40L, Tokina 10-17, Nauticam 7D, Sea & Sea MDX-40D YS-250's ULCS arms, Lightroom


#36 Otara

Otara

    Sting Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 260 posts

Posted 14 November 2009 - 02:05 PM

When I got my 40D, the D300 was a substantial amount more, so I certainly hope it was a better camera. And I got the 50D because it fitted inside the same housing meaning I had a backup body and an upgrade in one go, a bonus that is not small.

Similarly the 7D better be a fair bit better than my 50D given it involves a fairly big price hike over the 50D's price range as a model. I still cant decide whether its a pointless option and just to go full frame for my next camera given a housing change will be involved this time.

So to me its comparing apples to oranges. Im also not sure why its such a problem to say they loved it when they gave it a fairly glowing review. Loving something doesnt mean its the bestest ever and no other camera can possible come close to comparing.

And seriously spelling flames? Time to take a break when you go there in my view.

Otara

#37 fotoscubo714

fotoscubo714

    Sting Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 272 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sherman Oaks, Ca.
  • Interests:Boat diving
    Cold water diving
    Tropical location diving
    Freediving
    Ocean Kayaking
    Nitrox Tech diving
    CCR diving
    Digital and Film Photography (duh)
    HD Videography

Posted 16 November 2009 - 04:24 PM

Another well written review on the 7D from Camera labs in NZ. This one I could understand.

http://www.cameralab...s/Canon_EOS_7D/

Have fun,
Steve


DPReview just posted their Nikon D300s review and included comparisons to both the Canon 7D and the Canon D50. Based on their testing results the 7D image quality seemed slightly better than the D50 and better overall in comparison to the Nikon D300s.

http://www.dpreview....d300sreview.asp

I'm sure those that have a small fortune invested in particular glass will defend their brand, but those open really have their budget and shooting style/focus to rule their choice of brand.

Bo
7D and Oly E-PL1 (yet 2b housed) , D10 in upgraded Ike;
Sigma, Tokina and Tamron lenses.
Vintage film NikIII, 35mm & 2.1/4 housings.

#38 Otara

Otara

    Sting Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 260 posts

Posted 16 November 2009 - 05:47 PM

"As we have become accustomed to seeing, the Nikon produces a much more comparable image when processed from RAW. The higher pixel count of the 7D gives it a slight edge at capturing the finest detail but there's really very little to call between the two - it's hard to think of a situation in which either of these cameras could be claimed to be better than the other, in image quality terms."

This is what they said at the bottom of the RAW page, and they said that the JPG differences are mostly a matter of preference.

Both companies seem to have a very nice APS camera to buy, with sod all to choose between them in practical terms. I cant see how this is a bad thing.

Otara

#39 Rocha

Rocha

    Salty Dog

  • Senior Moderator
  • 3078 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California Academy of Sciences, San Francisco, CA

Posted 17 November 2009 - 07:47 AM

"As we have become accustomed to seeing, the Nikon produces a much more comparable image when processed from RAW. The higher pixel count of the 7D gives it a slight edge at capturing the finest detail but there's really very little to call between the two - it's hard to think of a situation in which either of these cameras could be claimed to be better than the other, in image quality terms."

This is what they said at the bottom of the RAW page, and they said that the JPG differences are mostly a matter of preference.

Both companies seem to have a very nice APS camera to buy, with sod all to choose between them in practical terms. I cant see how this is a bad thing.

Otara


Great summary Otara, nothing like copying and pasting from the source. So there you have it, the Canon vs. Nikon decision comes down personal preference, we are finally getting to a point that starts to remind me of the film days, some people would only shoot with Velvia, others with Kodachrome, etc. Nobody discussed "quality" issues per se, only personal preferences as to which tones you liked the better.

Luiz Rocha - www.luizrocha.com
Nikon D800, Aquatica AD800, Ikelite strobes.


#40 Mariozi

Mariozi

    Sting Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 205 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dubai UAE

Posted 17 November 2009 - 12:52 PM

Sorry, dude ... but you're an...

Love you to bro, I guess that you're not...
but if I am... I might be wrong.

Good Luck
Marcelo Mariozi - UWPhoto.ae
EUPS - Emirates Underwater Photographic Society Member
Nikon D300 on Sea&Sea MDX-D300 w/ YS-110 (2x) & Nikon F80s on Sea&Sea NX-80 w/ YS-90 + YS-120 & Nikonos V
Nikkors 10.5mm/2.8, 10-24mm/3.5-4.5, 16mm/2.8, 14-24mm/2.8, 50mm/1.4, 60mm/2.8, 105mm/2.8, 70-200mm/2.8; Sigmas 4.5mm/2.8 8mm/4, Kenko PRO300 3x TC.