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Red Sea with Amphibico Genesis FS700


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#1 Pepe EI

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:30 AM

One video shot with the FS700 and Amphibico Genesis 700, testing several pictures profiles....

 

Enjoy, all comments are welcome.

 


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#2 Stuart Keasley

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:39 AM

Thanks for sharing

 

Out of interest, what lens(es) were you using, and was that internal AVCHD or with an external recorder?

 

Cheers

 

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#3 Pepe EI

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:45 AM

Hi Stuart, Sony 10-18mm, and Sony 30mm macro.

 

External recorder, Atomos Ninja 2, with Dive & See housing.


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#4 Oceanshutter

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:56 AM

Hi Stuart, Sony 10-18mm, and Sony 30mm macro.

 

External recorder, Atomos Ninja 2, with Dive & See housing.

 

 

Nice job as always!  beautiful footage.

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#5 Stuart Keasley

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:51 AM

Hi Stuart, Sony 10-18mm, and Sony 30mm macro.

 

External recorder, Atomos Ninja 2, with Dive & See housing.

Thanks. 
 

Eager to get our Genesis somewhere a little more exotic, it's clocked up over 150 hours so far, but has yet to leave the confines of a swimming pool :(


Edited by Stuart Keasley, 14 April 2014 - 10:52 AM.

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#6 wagsy

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:42 PM

Nice little clip there Pepe, the NEX 10-18 mm is one very sharp wide lens.

I have one for uptop video, my verticals are near on perfect full wide at 10mm sitll.


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#7 Drew

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 01:02 AM

Are these all unprocessed clips from the Ninja?  I assume the different profiles were done without manual white balance?   Some jarring magenta water.  Also there was a sequence where the AF jumped around.  You may want to cut that out.
From 1.35 onwards the lens reflection rings are quite prevalent in some scenes, especially around the Thistlegorm.  The macro looked great.  Can you share the profile settings?


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#8 CheungyDiver

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 01:54 AM

Yes I agree with Drew the ring pattern is there but very subtle shadows. Colour grading out the Magenta water will be a pain. Pink jellyfish!

Nice video BTW and like the flow of the story. The Macros are excellent. Makes a big difference when lit with lights.

 

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#9 SimonSpear

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 05:55 AM

By far the best underwater footage I've seen from the FS cameras, well done José!!  I was watching that thinking there is absolutely NO way that was AVCHD!! :D

 

Still when I looked closer I could start to see some of the issues that I faced with the FS100.  Poor (sometimes bizarre) WB/Gamma/Colour reproduction, lens rings etc although the DR looked pretty good compared to what I experienced.  

 

Did you see any digital noise on highlights or blown out highlights?

 

Did you find that you couldn't colour correct some of the images because the rings became more noticeable when you did?  That was generally what happened to me but that was using AVCHD so I'd like to know if you also experienced it with ProRes.  The image falls apart very quickly when using the internal codec.

Also I'd echo the settings/profile request.

 

I think it is fair to say that this camera works for great Macro with lights, which is more or less what I'd always said but I guess I got on such a downer with it that I forgot that.  Maybe I'll take it with me to Lembeh next time I am there after all!

 

Once again well done José! :)

 

Cheers, Simon



#10 SimonSpear

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 06:00 AM

Thanks. 
 

Eager to get our Genesis somewhere a little more exotic, it's clocked up over 150 hours so far, but has yet to leave the confines of a swimming pool :(

 

If you look around the forum you can pick up a lot from here Stuart regarding the issues with it in the wild, but also happy to have a chat on the phone or over a beer even(!) so you don't go through all of the frustration that I did.  By the looks of it shooting ProRes definitely helps - be very interested to see how it performs when shooting RAW!

 

Cheers, Simon



#11 Pepe EI

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:15 AM

Oh oh, to much question, i'll try to do my best to answer everybody.

 

Yes, I've see one second the AF jumped around  (Salem Express), i'll cut it out (i don't shot in AF).

 

The Atomos Ninja has been a really nice recorder, 10bit is a wonderful treatment for blue. Here you have another video with the FS700, but not with the Atomos, and it is clear the blue lines when shot to the surface.

 

  

 

password: mediterranea

 

Most of the shots has not "colour touched", they are originals (not B&W Thistlegorm). Just some of them are speed reduced to 80%. Then I cannot say to much about the color treatment with ProRes.

 

Most shots were done with Sola 1200, even during the day. And  without torch I tried one Magic Filter and one Ikelite filter (don't like any).

 

Against most of u i don't like the macro, better said i don't like the 30mm macro. I'll try next time the 18-200mm with Subsee +10.

 

Sorry I not see so magenta, maybe different monitor?. Even this jellyfish was...pink !!!! The Red Sea is rapidly changing in the light, and it is not easy to chose the PP. At the end of the video, yes, i can see some magenta, it was one PP similar to Canon 5D. Also I can see magenta with the turtle, it was one FX7.

 

Yes i can see some lens flares (reflections), more in the Ghiannis D and the Salem than the Thistlegorm, maybe the sun altitude?,  I think i'll try next time reducing the distance from the lens to the dome. 

 

By the moment, I love the FS700, but still learning about it!!!

 

I will write the PP settings.

 

Regards!!!! and thanks all !!! thats great to learn!


Edited by Pepe EI, 15 April 2014 - 07:17 AM.

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#12 Stuart Keasley

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:47 AM

 

If you look around the forum you can pick up a lot from here Stuart regarding the issues with it in the wild, but also happy to have a chat on the phone or over a beer even(!) so you don't go through all of the frustration that I did.  By the looks of it shooting ProRes definitely helps - be very interested to see how it performs when shooting RAW!

 

Cheers, Simon

I'm always up for a beer :)

 

Although I've not seen many (any?) discussions around the FS700 on the forum, I didn't think there were that many that had made it under water? Understood there were issues with the FS100, but that's a completely different camera and sensor.... whilst we've not had any of our FS700s out in open water yet, they've still clocked up a lot of hours in studio/pool based environments and a huge amount top side and (relatively!) dry, we've not seen any major issues (have a look at any of the slow mo shots in the last two seasons of Top Gear...). We used it for all the in water filming for ITV Splash this year, they were over the moon... in their words, it knocked spots of the images from the EX1 we used last year (we ran HD-SDI to the OB, so an 8 bit feed, gamma was set to ITU709-800).

 

As for running 4k raw. Wow! We've got a couple of cameras up to FW3.0 with Odyssey 7Qs now, standard recording format for us is 4k raw to ProRes HD, the detail is stunning (looking forward to when CD release the FW upgrade to allow 4k raw to 4k ProRes) . We've run a few studio based pool shoots with that config, feeding back to the 7Q top side, we're really happy with the results. Even 2k raw HFR, whilst still pixel binning, feels a lot sharper than on board HFR. I'm just waiting waiting waiting for one of those lovely manufacturers to pick up the numerous hints I've been firing around and make a housing for it so we can go and have some real fun :)

 

But with all of that said, pool based studios and top side environments are a long way off the challenges of filming in open water... so I'd be intrigued to hear of anyone's elses experiences with the FS700.


Edited by Stuart Keasley, 15 April 2014 - 08:33 AM.

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#13 Stuart Keasley

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:51 AM

The Atomos Ninja has been a really nice recorder, 10bit is a wonderful treatment for blue. Here you have another video with the FS700, but not with the Atomos, and it is clear the blue lines when shot to the surface.

 

Forgive me if you're already aware of this, but the output of the FS700 over HD-SDI when shooting HD is still 8 bit.. so whilst the Ninja gives it a 10 bit ProRes wrapper, the data inside is still 8 bit based.

 

So the benefit of Ninja ProRes over on board AVCHD is purely down to the compression.

 

Picture profile wise, I've dicked around with all sorts of things, but have ended up defaulting back to ITU709 if I want to avoid grading (ITU709-800 if I'm expecting a more challenging DR), or SLog2 is I want to start off with something a bit flatter.

 

Again, to be clear, the vast majority of that experience comes from top side based shoots....(I'll make it my mission to get down to the coast in the next couple of months)


Edited by Stuart Keasley, 15 April 2014 - 07:55 AM.

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#14 SimonSpear

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 02:34 PM

I'm always up for a beer :)
 
Although I've not seen many (any?) discussions around the FS700 on the forum, I didn't think there were that many that had made it under water? Understood there were issues with the FS100, but that's a completely different camera and sensor.... whilst we've not had any of our FS700s out in open water yet, they've still clocked up a lot of hours in studio/pool based environments and a huge amount top side and (relatively!) dry, we've not seen any major issues (have a look at any of the slow mo shots in the last two seasons of Top Gear...). We used it for all the in water filming for ITV Splash this year, they were over the moon... in their words, it knocked spots of the images from the EX1 we used last year (we ran HD-SDI to the OB, so an 8 bit feed, gamma was set to ITU709-800).


There is actually quite a bit of FS700 uw footage out there and basically it is showing more or less the same issues as the FS100. Although not identical they are very, very similar cameras. In fact and the whole NXCAM range appears to be affected.

The issues do not show up for something like pool work, it us when you start to push the settings past the norm that the problems start, especially when you start to colour correct. Jose's video has given me some hope that external recorders could solve at least some of the problems, although I can still see most of the issues present to a lesser degree. I'd certainly love to get hold of those ProRes files for a closer look!

They are wonderful wonderful topside cameras. Such a shame, but I'm still holding out hope that my housing is more useful than a doorstop!!

#15 SimonSpear

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 02:36 PM

Should just add that they don't really show any issue when using external lighting, so macro seems to work really well. It is ambient light work where the issues tend to occur.

#16 Stuart Keasley

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:00 PM

There is actually quite a bit of FS700 uw footage out there and basically it is showing more or less the same issues as the FS100. Although not identical they are very, very similar cameras. In fact and the whole NXCAM range appears to be affected.
The issues do not show up for something like pool work, it us when you start to push the settings past the norm that the problems start, especially when you start to colour correct. Jose's video has given me some hope that external recorders could solve at least some of the problems, although I can still see most of the issues present to a lesser degree. I'd certainly love to get hold of those ProRes files for a closer look!
They are wonderful wonderful topside cameras. Such a shame, but I'm still holding out hope that my housing is more useful than a doorstop!!

If you mean fixing in post, then I'm not surprised, and wouldn't expect anything else from a highly compressed 8 bit feed.

If you're referring to in camera adjustment using picture profile, then an issue I've yet to have to face.... and hopefully never will.

Just stumbled across this offering from Subal this morning, http://www.subal.com...nitors/S7Q.aspx, so 4k and 2k raw without being tethered to topside are now within reach.

Edited by Stuart Keasley, 15 April 2014 - 11:02 PM.

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#17 SimonSpear

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 12:09 AM

It is not just because it is an 8 bit highly compressed feed and plenty of other cameras with similar codecs have never shown the issues that the FS/NXCAM cameras have shown.  There appears to be something much more fundamental going on.  I'm always very interested in seeing if anyone gets around the issues and José's video is the best I've seen so far, but even the ProRes examples have not been completely free from problems.  

 

The issues tend to magnify when you WB underwater but if you are using lights, don't WB and don't colour correct in post then they tend to be masked.  I really would absolutely definitely like to be proved wrong over this one, so any testing you do in the wild would be great.  If you are heading down to the coast let me know and I'll even bring my doorstop along for a side by side comparison! :)

 

Cheers, Simon



#18 Stuart Keasley

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 01:03 AM

It is not just because it is an 8 bit highly compressed feed and plenty of other cameras with similar codecs have never shown the issues that the FS/NXCAM cameras have shown.  There appears to be something much more fundamental going on.  I'm always very interested in seeing if anyone gets around the issues and José's video is the best I've seen so far, but even the ProRes examples have not been completely free from problems.  

 

The issues tend to magnify when you WB underwater but if you are using lights, don't WB and don't colour correct in post then they tend to be masked.  I really would absolutely definitely like to be proved wrong over this one, so any testing you do in the wild would be great.  If you are heading down to the coast let me know and I'll even bring my doorstop along for a side by side comparison! :)

 

Cheers, Simon

That sounds like a good plan Simon, I've got something brewing for a couple of weeks time, some other equipment to test, I'll let you know.

 

When are the cuttlefish due at Babbacombe?


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#19 SimonSpear

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 03:23 AM

Yeah Babbacombe sounds good.  I think the cuttlefish can appear anytime from now through to June / July.   Just let me know when you have some dates and I'll see if I can make it.

Cheers, Simon