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Subal insolvent


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#21 okuma

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 03:27 PM

Any one know if manufacturing/assembly/export costs are lower in Serbia?


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#22 tangfish

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 08:47 PM

Manufacturing costs are a lot cheaper there than in places like Austria and Germany. I just talked to a friend who has a lot of manufacturing operations in that part of the world and he said Serbia should be no problem in terms of labor and infrastructure needed for manufacturing stuff like our housings. There is a lot of component manufacturing done there for the German auto manufacturers, for example.

#23 trimix125

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 11:48 PM

Hi,
the personal costs in serbia will be 50% or less than in austria.
Its a lot easier to set up a company there, the standards for enviroment protection and industrial safety are a lot lower than here in austria.

The production for some parts had been there before, now the assembling and end controlls will be done there as well.
Drilling a hole is one thing, fitting everything watterproof together the other ;-))

Dont know if they have a special customs deal with the EU.
But that would only rise the prices in europe. For overseas the custom fees had to be paid in the past as well.

Regards,
Wolfgang



#24 adamhanlon

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:09 AM

Hi all,

 

Subal's owner, Harald Karl has reached out to me to clarify the situation.

 

All housing production and assembly will be carried out in Belgrade.

 

Servicing, repairs along with viewfinder and port assembly will stay at Steyr

 

Sales, shipping and company headquarters will be based in Vienna. A new showroom will open in March 2018, wherein the whole range will be viewable.

 

By applying for temporary insolvency as they shutter the Steyr production and assembly facility, it offers financial advantages. According to Harald, the decision to file for bankruptcy is a purely temporary commercial one and does not relate to the health of the company.

 

He is unequivocal in stating the customers will not be affected by this in any way. All pre-order, deposits and repairs will be actioned as planned:

 

Through this process, no one will lose anything! No housings which are pre-paid, or housings that are currently being serviced or repaired!”

 

have updated the front page post to reflect his response.


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#25 TimG

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:28 AM

Phew... thanks, Adam. Fingers crossed.

 

Having just taken my Subal D500 housing on it's first trip (and having gone through D100, D200, D300 and D800 housings) I'd be gutted if this excellent product had reached the end of the road. Good on Harald contacting you.

 

Tim


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#26 trimix125

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 04:22 AM

Hi,

By applying for temporary insolvency as they shutter the Steyr production and assembly facility, it offers financial advantages. According to Harald, the decision to file for bankruptcy is a purely temporary commercial one and does not relate to the health of the company.

It hits only the long time employees and saves money for the owner....
A high road for a well known company.

Can be that Subal will shrink and the products can be done in serbia for the future.
But is not a propper way to run a company.

And i have no idea what a "temporary insolvency" should be. There is nothing like that in austrian law....
I have money to run my company or not.

Konkursverfahren: Voraussetzung für ein Konkursverfahren ist das Vorliegen von Zahlungsunfähigkeit oder Überschuldung.
This means that a company / owner can not pay the bills and the court has to open a claim with a liquidator.
Mr Karl is no longer the "legal chairman" of the company. That handles the liquidator.

Wolfgang
 


Edited by trimix125, 03 January 2018 - 04:35 AM.


#27 buddy

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 05:32 AM

Probably there is something like a "Nachlasstundung", a similar law procedure for financial troubled companies in the US under the Chapter 11.

 

But if new products will be shipped to customers that probably would require to set-up a new company other than the current Subal GmbH Austria? The question remains whether the rights for the design, trade names and patents (if any) can be used in the future without legal complications? Just speculation at this time; potential customers want clarity before making engagements...

 

Adam, did he say something about the long-awaited outstanding shipments e.g. the ND850? Is it stil possible to order? Which company will enter a sales contract with a customer und will make fulfillment?

 

Questions..questions...


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#28 adamhanlon

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 06:49 AM

Hi,

 

He did not specifically mention anything about fulfilling long outstanding orders, except for the blanket guarantee that all orders will be honored and that this is simply a restructuring. He pointed out that the logistics of having 3 operations that are quite widely separated geographically is not convenient. 

 

I would suggest contacting Subal directly for specific enquiries.

 

If I hear anything new, I will be sure to post it here...

 

Adam


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#29 trimix125

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 11:05 AM

Hi Adam,
he owns the company since 2011....
The place in Steyr, the companies old hometown, is 2 hours of driving from Vienna, where Mr. Karl has his Foto Nautica store.
From Vienna to Belgrad its 6 to 7 hours drive.
But that he knew than he placed the producing there....
Regards,
Wolfgang



#30 Cerianthus

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 11:13 AM

Am I the only one to think a planned bankruptcy is highly immoral? Just to ditch personnel that might have worked there for years and are no longer needed without a proper leave package, and shake off some debtors and save some cash.

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#31 TimG

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 03:51 AM

Just to add a small update on this:

 

I was in touch with Subal this week over a replacement part. I got a quick response and the promise that the part would be in the mail the same day.

 

Phew.


Tim
(PADI IDC Staff Instructor and former Dive Manager, KBR Lembeh Straits)
Nikon D500, Nikkors 105mm and 8-15mm, Tokina 10-17mm,  Subal housing

http://www.timsimages.uk
Latest images: http://www.shutterst...lery_id=1940957


#32 EspenB

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:11 PM

Well, after two plannet bankrupcies in 2011 and 2017 to get rid of debt, there is certainly questionable if the cheaper assembly and production in Serbia will make the company profitable in the time to come.

 

This recent restructuring is caused by bad housing sales in the previous years. Perhaps not surprising as there have been a lot of success from innovative new housing manufacturers in China.


Am I the only one to think a planned bankruptcy is highly immoral? Just to ditch personnel that might have worked there for years and are no longer needed without a proper leave package, and shake off some debtors and save some cash.

 

They did the same in 2011.



#33 Kraken de Mabini

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 10:36 AM

Subal was present at BOOT 2018, with Vladimir Mladenovic representing them.  Good sign, they are alive & kicking.



#34 buddy

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 06:47 AM

Subal ND850 configured and ordered to my needs. preferred shipment not later than in June, which is ok for me since I will not need it before September this year.


Juerg
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#35 tangfish

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:59 PM

Subal ND850 configured and ordered to my needs. preferred shipment not later than in June, which is ok for me since I will not need it before September this year.

 

Hopefully it does arrive in time. I know it seems far out but keep in mind the ND850 was originally supposed to ship in mid-November of 2017. After missing not one but two trips waiting for it I finally broke down and got a Nauticam housing. I really wanted a Subal but the waiting game plus the uncertainty about the company's financial picture going forward finally forced me to bite the bullet and switch, which I really did not want to do.

 

Fortunately in the process I found that Nauticam makes a very nice adaptor that allows me to continue using all my existing Subal ports. I will probably move over to Nauticam branded ports when the time is right, but the adaptor makes the cost of switching a lot less painful at the time of buying the new housing. Best of luck to you m8!



#36 buddy

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 04:17 AM

 

Hopefully it does arrive in time. I know it seems far out but keep in mind the ND850 was originally supposed to ship in mid-November of 2017. After missing not one but two trips waiting for it I finally broke down and got a Nauticam housing. I really wanted a Subal but the waiting game plus the uncertainty about the company's financial picture going forward finally forced me to bite the bullet and switch, which I really did not want to do.

 

Fortunately in the process I found that Nauticam makes a very nice adaptor that allows me to continue using all my existing Subal ports. I will probably move over to Nauticam branded ports when the time is right, but the adaptor makes the cost of switching a lot less painful at the time of buying the new housing. Best of luck to you m8!

 

 

yes, that is great. It was also an option for me but still being confident that Subal ND850 will arrive; and I am not in a hurry, that helps probably. ND850 is a fantastic housing as I have seen so far, I still have a ND4, but the ND850 is in another league. Probably Nauticam as well (but don't know Nauticam's very well though). Mine will come with 2 Nikonos 5pin flash sockets, with Leak Sentinel V5 (which was developed especially for Subals for smaller outer diameter) and with a special turning knob for manual flash output control on the new V3 flash TTL bracket built-in, both devices on the left side of the housing...yummi.

 

I also ordered a +10 diopter wet macro lens adapter plus holder for the 105mm f/2.8 and port for end of the year when going to Lembeh and Ambon (for the psychodelic froggy...).

 

Btw, I talked to the owner of Subal (Karl Harald) and it looks fine for me after that. No down payments requested. Payment shortly before delivery when announced. keep fingers crossed that all comes good...

 

Now I just need to get a D850 and a 14-24mm; I will try the 14-24 besides the 16-35 which I already have, despite all good reasons from here not to do...


Edited by buddy, 10 February 2018 - 04:20 AM.

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#37 okuma

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 07:06 PM

Hummm!

A 105 and a +10 for psychedelic frogie?

Take a 60mm for second round of shots!


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If it is so easy every one would be doing it!

Nikon D 500, Subal Housing, Inon Z 240 strobes.


#38 buddy

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 12:39 AM

Ha ha and no no not the +10 diopter for the frogy! that's why the adapter is an underwater flip device...for really small stuff it flips on and off for larger ones...I only own the 105 as macro lens, both gives 1:1 reproduction on full frame. But considering the psycho being maybe 5 cm long i could assume that for this a 60 would be better by a lesser distance and thus less water in between to the subject?

But, the more difficult thing is probably to find the psycho at all! Have you spotted it?


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Nikon D4s, Nikon 16-35 /f4 VR II, 70-180,105mm f/2.8, Subal ND4 housing and ports, 2 Subtronic Fusion (flash and video lights), Sigma 15mm /f2.8, Subal 4" Minidome


#39 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 01:04 AM

Subal are currently working hard to deliver D850 housing orders and they are completing housings every day at the moment. They shared this special edition for Nikon 100 Years for a special customer yesterday on Facebook.

 

28336380_1730906953626208_1845679850349468586_o.jpg

 

28235276_1730907056959531_2473160273052540061_o.jpg

 

Alex


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#40 Chris Kippax

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 01:40 AM

WOW.......

 

That is sexy!