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Panasonic GF1


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#1 davephdv

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 07:16 PM

Panasonic GF1

New Panasonic micro 4/3rds.

Maybe the camera to wait for.

dSLR quality sensor and AF capacity.

Size and form similar to the LX3

45 mm (90 mm equivalent) macro lens.

All it needs is a housing and a wide angle lens.

Note that Leica is announcing new products on Sept 9. A Lecia version? At twice the cost? But maybe a wideangle lens?
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#2 Drew

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 07:41 PM

Hmmm Leica M/R mount....I like! :wacko:

Here's the official website:
Panasonic GF1

It's not cheap though. $900 MSRP is in ViDSLR territory.

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#3 gobiodon

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 12:03 AM

All it needs is a housing and a wide angle lens.



Wide angle lens is on the way (OK, it's a fisheye). 7-14 is already available.

http://www.photograp..._thirds_lenses/

This camera can be the core of an ultimate compact underwater system. A new digital nikonos, maybe?
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#4 Draq

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 07:06 AM

Unfortunately I don't think Panasonic will offer a housing. An Ike housing, if one is made, will probably be large enough it will detract from the compact size. A Seatool housing, if they decided to make one, would take so long to get to market the camera would be discontinued and replaced by another model.

Hopefully, I am wrong in what I just said.

#5 dzwiad

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 09:07 AM

I do not think there will be any housing from panasonic
Ike may make the housing (look how popular oly E-p1 became in Japan)
but yes i do agree that it will be probably bulky and i can not imagine how would they fit their lens ports to that housing with keeping it at reasonable size
other option from ike might be making the housing without possibility of changing lenses lets say for kit lens only but then advantage of g1 or e-p1 would get much smaller

There is also a nice 17mm 2.8 lens from olympus e-p1 that should fit the camera.
but the 7mm fisheye sounds great too I have the PEN and love it.

for me the nicest part of panasonic g1 system is a converter from micro four thirds to Leica M mount
(you could do it before but with two converters one from micro to four thirds and then another to M)

then both cameras are leica M8 killers :wacko: one can buy single camera for every old leica lens he has got for much smaller price than M8 body
and price for quality in my opinion goes to panasonic and olympus in comparision to M8 :(

Edited by dzwiad, 03 September 2009 - 09:09 AM.

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#6 davephdv

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 05:10 PM

I'm hoping for an Aquatica or Subal housing.

This camera uses interchangeable lenses it will need a port system.

Ikelite would be good. They might have to develop a new size case due to it's small size and interchangeable lenses.

The AF system I think clearly separates this system from the Olympia. Though I think that Olympia will be inspired to improve their camera.
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#7 dzwiad

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 10:25 PM

I simply doubt that any of the housing manufacturers will make new port system for new market with only 2 camera models
but I do hope that I'm wrong

it would lovely fit in my drysuit cargo pocket for tec dives when i do not want/cant dive with D700

I'm affraid that ikelite might make to big housing for it to be of any bigger advantage
they are always leaving a lot of space around a camera due to design method
small size is the biggest selling point for this cameras

Edited by dzwiad, 03 September 2009 - 10:28 PM.

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#8 gobiodon

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Posted 04 September 2009 - 12:34 AM

I simply doubt that any of the housing manufacturers will make new port system for new market with only 2 camera models
but I do hope that I'm wrong



If they don't make a new port system, we can forget the whole thing. Then it's better to by a cheap compact dslr, there are many.
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#9 underexposed

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 05:08 AM

If they don't make a new port system, we can forget the whole thing. Then it's better to by a cheap compact dslr, there are many.


My friend has a LX3 with a 10bar housing that is very nice. Maybe they will jump in and do something.
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#10 Phil Rudin

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 08:00 AM

Noted above is the fact that the Pany/Oly M 4/3 system already has a wide 7 to 14 zoom and an 8 mm fisheye on the way. The 7 end of the zoom is a 114 degree angle of view on the same size sensor as all of the Olympus 4/3's cameras. So while the lens many be made smaller the size of the dome glass will need to remain in the 200 mm (eight inch) or greater range to achieve corner sharpness with the 7 to 14 at the wide end. If a small port can be designed for a 114 AOV lens it should work for all lenses not just the M43 lenses. While a smaller housing could be designed for the camera body, the lens port size would need to stay about the same.

The Pany GF-1 is going to be a great backup camera to the larger GH-1 but I think the GH-1 is the best offering for U/W use at this time. A housing has already been released in Japan by SeaTool, http://seatool.net/list/GH1.html which is smaller than most of the SeaTool DSLR housings like my SeaTool Olympus E-3 housing. Most if not all of the existing ports will be interchangeable with this housing and a new 14 to 140 mm zoom port has been designed for video use. While the Canon and Nikon still/video combo's are being talked about most it seems clear to many that the GH-1 is the present "combo king" because of its full time AF and other features, http://www.luminous-...meras/gh1.shtml

It should be interesting to see if Olympus releases an U/W housing when they introduce an M43 version more suited to U/W use than the PEN.

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Edited by tropical1, 05 September 2009 - 08:05 AM.


#11 gobiodon

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 04:07 AM

Noted above is the fact that the Pany/Oly M 4/3 system already has a wide 7 to 14 zoom and an 8 mm fisheye on the way. The 7 end of the zoom is a 114 degree angle of view on the same size sensor as all of the Olympus 4/3's cameras. So while the lens many be made smaller the size of the dome glass will need to remain in the 200 mm (eight inch) or greater range to achieve corner sharpness with the 7 to 14 at the wide end. If a small port can be designed for a 114 AOV lens it should work for all lenses not just the M43 lenses. While a smaller housing could be designed for the camera body, the lens port size would need to stay about the same.


I read somewhere here that the olympus port for the recent fisheye lens is compact enough. By skipping the zoom and have only the 45mm macro and the fisheye, one can still have a nice compact 2 lenses system with some limitations, but it could cope with most of the UW shooting situations.
Marcell Nikolausz
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#12 Phil Rudin

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 07:36 AM

The fact is that the Olympus 8 mm fisheye has been out for some time and the Pany 8 mm won't be here until some time in 2010.

Olympus has ONE curved dome port in their housing line, the 170 mm which can be used with the 7 to 14 (with extension), 9 to 18, 11 to 22 (with extension), 14 to 54 (with extension), 12 to 60 (with extension) and the 8 mm fisheye. This is the ONLY dome Olympus makes. Athena has the same 170 mm dome port and a 220 mm dome port which provides even sharper corners on all 4/3 cameras which housings are designed for.

Inon has designed a dome ONLY for use with the 8 mm fisheye and it is about 145 mm.

While I agree that a small housing and slightly smaller flat port could be made for the 45 mm macro the only solution for a smaller 8 mm fisheye dome may be a small fisheye dome port being developed by ReefPhoto.com.

For wide angle use the 7 to 14 zoom is the most useful choice and my prime W/A lens.

I think a housing system for a micro 4/3 system will come from Olympus in the future but not for the PEN it will more likely include some type of view finder in addition to the display like the Pany GH-1.

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#13 Drew

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 04:36 PM

The Pany GF-1 is going to be a great backup camera to the larger GH-1 but I think the GH-1 is the best offering for U/W use at this time. ....While the Canon and Nikon still/video combo's are being talked about most it seems clear to many that the GH-1 is the present "combo king" because of its full time AF and other features, http://www.luminous-...meras/gh1.shtml


Well Phil
That depends on what criteria you use. For compactness and price, the GH1 is the best packaged ViDSLR. For image quality (including video) and other stuff, I'll have to disagree with you (and by extension Michael). The AVCHD from the GH1 is lower bit rate, lower resolution and generally of lower quality than the 5D2 (which isn't exactly super high quality), not to mention the low light ability of the bigger lenses of Canon are better.
The full time AF is not nearly as accurate as the AF on a normal camcorder, so it's still not effective. I tried it and I'd rather rely on my own hands in manual for focus pulling.
Obviously the nice things about the non-mirrored cameras are faster sync speed and size. But "best" is very subjective and depends on the criteria.

The GF1 needs nice fast primes. The 20 is a start but I'd like to see 12, 17 at f1.4. It's a nice little package for incognito shooting for PJ work etc. For underwater, I'd say it's encroaching on DSLR territory and then the lack of lens and housing choices comes into play.

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#14 underexposed

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 07:50 PM

For those of us that have been using old P&S's for the last 10 years this looks to be a nice upgrade. I've been waiting 4 or 5 years for them to wedge a large sensor into a small box so I can same some money and bulk. I have to dive every weekend and I don't want to lug around a big camera all the time.

I mailed 10bar to get their thoughts on this camera and this is what they said. My hope is there will be at least one high quality not too expensive housing on the market for it.

Hi Mark,
Thank you for your interest in our product.
We are now having a feasibility study on the GF1 and it apprears to be promising. As the actual GF1 has not arrived yet, our decision will be depending on the solution for the flash and as well as the controls on the lens which are quite critical.
Once there is any decision made, we will keep you be advised.
Regards,
Ada Cheung
Scuba Network Ltd.-10 Bar Underwater Housings

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#15 Phil Rudin

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 06:21 AM

Hi Drew,

I have not tested the Pany GH-1 myself did not mean to imply that this is as a result of my testing. But it appears that DP Review has come to the same conclusion saying in their review that the GH-1 is "the best implementation of video on a non-compact so far" and the optimized for video 14 to 140 lens is much quicker than on the current DSLR's and is very usable.

I am sure that other testers have conflicting results, I just haven't read them myself. It also appears to me after several years of watching Wetpixel that many here respect the reviews of these two sites.

Phil Rudin

Edited by tropical1, 08 September 2009 - 06:23 AM.


#16 Draq

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 12:59 PM

I had been watching for that Seatool housing for the GH1, but I gather it still isn't available in the U.S., and if I am deciphering the Japanese page correctly, the thing costs around $3,000.00. I know that amount is little obstacle to many here, but I am not buying a $3k housing.

#17 Drew

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 03:02 PM

DP Review has come to the same conclusion saying in their review that the GH-1 is "the best implementation of video on a non-compact so far" and the optimized for video 14 to 140 lens is much quicker than on the current DSLR's and is very usable.

I am sure that other testers have conflicting results, I just haven't read them myself. It also appears to me after several years of watching Wetpixel that many here respect the reviews of these two sites.


Phil,
I tend to much more conservative with the usage of words like "best". The 14-140 is nice with the stepless aperture control, except even though it is stepless, it adjusts to light conditions slowly compared to a consumer vid camera. In most cases, anyone shooting video would have exposure settings fixed and adjusted manually anyhow.
Furthermore, with cameras coming out every few months, the "best" don't stay the best very long. I think criteria is the better way to list features. Furthermore, when stills guys review video standards, their criteria are much different than what video people look for. And vice versa. The issues with vertical banding and AVCHD's pixel blocking etc are probably overlooked because they weren't looking for it. Just like many don't look for the aliasing on the 5D2 clips, when it's so obvious.
I mean the GH1 has nice features like variable fps, continuous clip recording and a purpose built lens for video. For underwater, the smaller sensor has better DOF which makes it easier for people to focus. Of course, the drawbacks will be more noise, lack of fast wide angle lenses and average codec for video, among other things.
For stills, at 12mp with 12bit DR vs 18mp and 14bit DR of the 7D, especially for cleaner high ISO, which would you choose?

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#18 derway

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 05:09 PM

Yeah, the final reviews on the gf1 are out. Killer Autofocus!

This is my biggest gripe with any P&S - the long lag getting longer as contrast and light diminish.

The gf1 (and gh1) have auto focus somewhat better than entry level dslrs, according to dpreview and imaging-resource.

Now, we just need a reasonable price housing. Shall we badger ikelite?

Don't need ports. Just support the kit lens, so it would be simple like their P&S housings.

Looks WAY better than the g11 in so many ways.
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#19 davephdv

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 02:05 PM

[quote]Don't need ports. Just support the kit lens, so it would be simple like their P&S housings.
[/quote

But you have to have a least one port.

I would say the housing would be useless without a wide angle and a macro option.

So you would need at least two ports.

To take advantage of the camera's compact size the ports and housing would have to be specific for the camera and probably the lenses.
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#20 leepix

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 08:04 AM

"but I am not buying a $3k housing"
To make the situtation worse, Ikelite has not made many/any? housings for Panasonics. I haven't seen any Pany OEM housings. So basically the Pany G series is going to be out of reach for mere consumer level digital divers!

I have been considering trading up from Oly C5050+Ike to similar with Canon G11 and ya' know it is not that much of an improvement in picture quality - tiny pixels ain't an improvemnet. Nor is slow shooting in u/w light levels.

I Fantasea is below my quality level and 10bar has been questioned? Speak up if you got them?