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Are video people smarter than stills people?


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#61 DeanB

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 05:20 AM

Maybe it is that all of the truly 'smart' ones are staying out of this topic completely - thus we are a self selecting group and statistically invalid by our own inclusion.

Paul C


Well being one of those drivelling, empty vessel types I find these topics truly enlightening ;) :D

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#62 ronscuba

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:19 AM

I know many stills people that shoot hundreds of images to get one 'good one' I have seen/heard lots of "I should have been quicker with the shutter on this one" and " I took this on auto that's why the W/B isn't brilliant" and also "Here are a few of my holiday pics from the Red Sea, they aren't brilliant as they were taken on my P&S as my DSLR is being fixed" so you sit through a few crap ones... You are right, personally I never show bad sequences to clients or even family and a good stills shooter will only show 'The few' good images out of, maybe, hundreds. I find it's either the excited New camera owner or amateur in both fields that tends to show nearly everything.

It is more viewer friendly to show a great film than a hundred dreary still images.

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Ah, but not everyone agrees what is a great film. I also find it easier to breeze through looking at 100 crappy stills than to sit through a boring 5 minute video. Being forced to watching some videos could be called cruel and unusual punishment. :D

I'm totally guilty here. My videos have received all kinds of negative criticism. Since I am a hobbyist I edit to my tastes. I hope people enjoy the video, but if they don't I won't lose any sleep.

#63 DeanB

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:49 AM

Ah, but not everyone agrees what is a great film. I also find it easier to breeze through looking at 100 crappy stills than to sit through a boring 5 minute video. Being forced to watching some videos could be called cruel and unusual punishment. :D

I'm totally guilty here. My videos have received all kinds of negative criticism. Since I am a hobbyist I edit to my tastes. I hope people enjoy the video, but if they don't I won't lose any sleep.



Same could be said for stills Ron ... I definitely could not sit through loads of rubbish images or a boring 5min film... Being made to look at sub standard pics would be torture... So my heart goes out to competition judges ... ;)

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#64 tdpriest

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 10:17 AM

Keep it up lads - soon be down at a level where I can contribute.


Come on! Jump in! It's warmer than European seas at the moment...

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#65 tdpriest

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 10:34 AM

... why is a still pic 'art' and a moving image not?...


Well, that's just not true, is it? Most stills don't reach the (ill defined, I'll grant) level of art. I guess that I might have got close, once or twice, but most competition judges have chosen not to agree...

... it's just the same with moving images: I reckon that Cousteau sometimes got close, James Cameron (despite his appalling story-telling) has got there quite often, but Bob Ballard never got beyond engineering images. I don't think it's difficult to see why great moving images don't come along that often and why it's much more common to find short gems in longer sequences that don't quite hit the mark.

I also think that the way in which we look at moving images, the way in which we are drawn into the action, makes it difficult to step back from the images and look at them intellectually and analyse our emotional responses to them (instead of feeling them). There are so many other aspects to the moving image, as well; the flow from moment to moment, the story, frequently the addition of sound: all pulling out our attention. I believe that it's that distance from the image that lets us see it as art. That's easier with a still image.

Ooops! A serious response...

Tim

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#66 Drew

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:32 PM

I'm pretty sure when Jeff (Loftus) put up this tongue in cheek post, I think he was referring to the technical aspects of video, which undeniably requires more expertise than still photography. Although the basic principles are similar, the breadth of moving images is certainly wider. Anyone in stills understand sound, not just stereo or mono either but mics etc. By the technical criteria, video demands more technical knowledge. Whether one needs to be smarter to acquire and understand that knowledge is up for debate, but not the depth of the technical requirements.

When you move the discussion towards subjective determinants like which is better, then global environmental issues will be solved by governments before we get to a consensus. Even when keeping the parameters to underwater imagery, it is still very subjective. Not to mention, critiquing stills and video "art" on a visual level may have similarities, but often the criteria are different. Then add sound and the parameters shift further apart.

How does one compare Doisneau's Le Baiser de L'Hôtel de Ville to say the beach kiss in 'From Here To Eternity' or more fun, the spaghetti kiss in the 'Lady and the Tramp?' :D

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#67 TomR1

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 08:51 PM

On one hand I am smart and the other.......

I use a D-300, shoot over 50 shots per dive and display maybe 10 of them after two weeks of diving. How smart is that? Almost everything I do is junk. Yet I keep trying for that GREAT shot and when I get one it is simply not good enough or so say the judges. They say insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

So now I have a Sanyo HD-2000 which I carry along with my still rig. Now I can shoot an hours worth of clips per day and maybe get a 2 min video after a two week vacation and 1000 hours of editing.

But I'm doing something different so I'm not insane.....................am i?

#68 DeanB

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:53 PM

On one hand I am smart and the other.......

I use a D-300, shoot over 50 shots per dive and display maybe 10 of them after two weeks of diving. How smart is that? Almost everything I do is junk. Yet I keep trying for that GREAT shot and when I get one it is simply not good enough or so say the judges. They say insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

So now I have a Sanyo HD-2000 which I carry along with my still rig. Now I can shoot an hours worth of clips per day and maybe get a 2 min video after a two week vacation and 1000 hours of editing.

But I'm doing something different so I'm not insane.....................am i?



'Progressing Photographer starting out in video'... Not unintelligent, just learning like everyone else on here. Everybody has to start somewhere and even the veteran shooters are forever learning and evolving their 'art' ... There is no higher intelligence in shooting just more 'experience'

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#69 Paul Kay

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 02:57 AM

As I follow some of the threads on the video forum, I am lead to believe that video people are smarter than stills people, and folks doing VDSLR are stills people trying to be smart.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? :D

Given how awkward it can be to shoot VDSLR (underwater), I'd say that the people doing it and succeeding are actually the smartest of all :P

As for video requiring more expertise well, it depends whether you include the use of Photoshop as part of this expertise really. In reality both can be very complex and determining which is more complex is a Nikon vs. Canon type question.

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#70 ronscuba

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 06:44 PM

Given how awkward it can be to shoot VDSLR (underwater), I'd say that the people doing it and succeeding are actually the smartest of all :D

As for video requiring more expertise well, it depends whether you include the use of Photoshop as part of this expertise really. In reality both can be very complex and determining which is more complex is a Nikon vs. Canon type question.


Don't forget the editing and production process too. It's not just knowing how to use the editing software. Writing dialog and/or narration. The story, audio selection/creation, synchronizing the audio to match the video. Creativity is a big one too.

#71 Captain_Caveman

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 08:39 PM

Photo vs video?

How many 90 minute slide shows (piano or no piano) would you be happy to sit through a week?

Edited by Captain_Caveman, 03 December 2010 - 08:40 PM.


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#72 ronscuba

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 10:32 AM

Video Art ?
[vimeo]9325052[/vimeo]

Edited by ronscuba, 24 December 2010 - 10:35 AM.


#73 loftus

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 10:38 AM

Very cool; where's my acid stash when I need it?
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#74 DeanB

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 02:37 PM

I just watched Piranha 3D (although only on 2D blu-ray) and I must admit the underwater sequences with Kelly Brook and friend were most artistic :good: :good:

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#75 loftus

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 09:03 AM

I just watched Piranha 3D (although only on 2D blu-ray) and I must admit the underwater sequences with Kelly Brook and friend were most artistic :D :)

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LOL; I guess I can start a new thread ' Are people who watch videos dumber than those who look at stills?'
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#76 Steve Douglas

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 11:25 AM

Ron,
Thanks for posting that, something akin to a project that has been sitting on my brain for many years now. Beautifully done and went to the producers other films on Vimeo. Some excellent work there.
Steve

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#77 ronscuba

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 10:47 PM

I think the guy who made that video is just a young college kid or recent grad. Very talented and creative. Makes scuba videos look silly.

#78 DeanB

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 04:37 AM

LOL; I guess I can start a new thread ' Are people who watch videos dumber than those who look at stills?'



Or just more pervy

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#79 Steve Douglas

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 02:22 PM

Hey Dean,
Didn't you hear the saying that 'perversion was a pleasant diversion?'
Happy Boxing Day
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#80 DeanB

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 02:35 PM

Hey Dean,
Didn't you hear the saying that 'perversion was a pleasant diversion?'
Happy Boxing Day
Steve



:) cheers Steve I'll mention that in court :D although one mans perversion is another mans normality ... Apparently

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