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RAW ACR Adobe Canon DPP

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#1 String

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 09:32 AM

Im using LR/Photoshop a lot but keep running into the same problem repeatedly.  Namely, with photos involving a significant tint (ie underwater, manual WB or filter photography), the adobe software gives me substantially different looking images with substantially less editing potential than the same file loaded into Canon digital photo pro (and then exported as a TIFF).
 
Some examples:-
 
Adobe%20v%20Dpp.JPG
 
Manual white balance at about 4m depth.  No editing on RAW
 
Adobe%20v%20Dpp%202.JPG
 
Same as above.
 
The situation gets worse the deeper i go.  Some filter stuff in the 10-16m range is drastically different.
 
Adobe%20v%20Dpp%203.JPG
 
20m depth, magic filter
 
From Lightroom/ACR the white balance slider is imported as this:-
 
slider.JPG
 
Its an issue because the original JPG looks good, importing the preview jpg (embedded with RAW) displays as per the camera.  Then when its thumbnailed and finished importing the lock to the green with maxed out tint and balance settings.
It means i can do very little or no colour correcting editing in the Adobe products.  Canon DPP imports it looking pretty much as per the JPG with full adjustments allowed.  Exporting the RAW from DPP as a TIFF then importing that TIFF into lightroom allows full adjustments to be made.
 
To me it seems as if the Adobe raw engine for Canon is misreading or unable to utilise the full range of data or is importing a setting incorrectly.  With strobe lit shot this isn't an issue as there arent the huge tints to deal with.
 
Ive had this problem with RAWs from various canon compacts (S95, S120) and DSLRs (450d, 550d, 70D) and lots of versions of lightroom (from v4 to CC 2014) and photoshop (from CS onwards) and its a consistent problem.
 
Its not a picture style issue as ive tried all the various ones of those - its quite simply my manual WB underwater shots appear far greener and tinted in LR with little or no scope for adjusting than in DPP.
 
Obviously re-exporting all my CR2s as TIFFs from DPP just to import into LR is a fairly annoying extra step editing.
 
So has anyone else noticed this or can suggest a workaround?

Edited by String, 25 August 2015 - 09:32 AM.


#2 coinee

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 12:16 PM

Hi String!

 

Zou want to set up the profile in Lightroom correctly - in 'Camera Calibration', all the way at the bottom of the develop settings, you can choose your profile. And if you hit shift while choosing (I think it's shift?) it'll let you choose the default. After I set mine to camera standard (figure out which one you like, then use that) I lived happily ever after. :)

 

Good luck!


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#3 String

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 03:48 PM

Its not a camera profile setting - they all have the same issue.  The tint is simply maxed out in LR with no further scope for reducing it.

 

The raw file is here:- http://www.whitcombe...to/IMG_8090.CR2if anyone wants to play.



#4 coinee

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 10:29 PM

Curious, I have the same effect when importing that file, checked in Lightroom and Photoshop. What color space is your camera set up to use?


Fabian Schorp

Flickr: https://www.flickr.c.../129488282@N06/

Nikon D750, NA-D750, 105mm macro, 16-35mm, Sigma 15mm fisheye, Dual YS250 Pro


#5 Tom_Kline

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 01:06 AM

I think you have reached the limited of what Adobe can do in color correction. I looked at some of my Hawaii pix. 150 is the max correction for tint - hit a wall as well when shooting though a lot of water and no flash. Most shots require less than 150. For example one was at +64 for a school of fish at a distance but with flash.


Thomas C. Kline, Jr., Ph. D.
Oceanography & Limnology
Currently used housed digital cameras: Canon EOS-1Ds MkIII, EOS-1D MkIV, and EOS-1DX; and Nikon D3X. More or less retired: Canon EOS-1Ds MkII; and Nikon D1X, D2X, and D2H.

Lens focal lengths ranging from 8 to 200mm for UW use. Seacam housings and remote control gear. Seacam 60D, 150D, and 250D, Sea&Sea YS250, and Inon Z220 strobes.

http://www.salmonography.com/

 


#6 Timccr

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 06:31 AM

Instead of trying to correct what you have you could try rebuilding the red channel. It is a lot of trial and error work but if you want to try it I would suggest reading Katrin Eisman on photo restoration before you start.



#7 String

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 08:36 AM

Camera colour space is sRGB.

 

Its an issue ive had going back a few years with various canon compact and DSLRs and all versions of LR/ACR at the time.

 

Rebuilding the red channel would be a lot of work - its easier to import raw into DPP then export the TIFF into lightroom.  Its an extra step and one id rather not make hence the question.

I can edit that TIFF perfectly.



#8 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 08:57 AM

Here is a version of the turtle unprocessed and processed in Lightroom and only in Lightroom with a few clicks - (this is just a virtual copy of the original file):

 

string.jpg


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#9 Tom_Kline

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 10:10 AM

Here is a version of the turtle unprocessed and processed in Lightroom and only in Lightroom with a few clicks - (this is just a virtual copy of the original file):

 

attachicon.gifstring.jpg

So what exactly did you do? I gather something beyond the tint slider since it was already at the maximum setting.


Thomas C. Kline, Jr., Ph. D.
Oceanography & Limnology
Currently used housed digital cameras: Canon EOS-1Ds MkIII, EOS-1D MkIV, and EOS-1DX; and Nikon D3X. More or less retired: Canon EOS-1Ds MkII; and Nikon D1X, D2X, and D2H.

Lens focal lengths ranging from 8 to 200mm for UW use. Seacam housings and remote control gear. Seacam 60D, 150D, and 250D, Sea&Sea YS250, and Inon Z220 strobes.

http://www.salmonography.com/

 


#10 Storker

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 08:49 PM

I'd really like to know, too.


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#11 Tom_Kline

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 11:02 PM

I just remembered there is a way to increase the adjustment range. Insert and pull down the gradient tool all the way and select the change you want from the menu. I picked the color thing on the bottom and added a bunch of magenta. Not the exactly the same result as what Alex did but you should get the idea.

Attached Images

  • IMG_8090.jpg

Edited by Tom_Kline, 26 August 2015 - 11:03 PM.

Thomas C. Kline, Jr., Ph. D.
Oceanography & Limnology
Currently used housed digital cameras: Canon EOS-1Ds MkIII, EOS-1D MkIV, and EOS-1DX; and Nikon D3X. More or less retired: Canon EOS-1Ds MkII; and Nikon D1X, D2X, and D2H.

Lens focal lengths ranging from 8 to 200mm for UW use. Seacam housings and remote control gear. Seacam 60D, 150D, and 250D, Sea&Sea YS250, and Inon Z220 strobes.

http://www.salmonography.com/

 


#12 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 11:52 PM

I would be careful doing big WB colour adjustments on Graduated Filter/Brush Tool in Lightroom. To my eyes these work much more destructively to image quality than global adjustments of WB. 


Alexander Mustard - www.amustard.com - www.magic-filters.com
Nikon D5 (Subal housing). Nikon D7200 (Subal housing). Olympus EPL-5 (Nauticam housing).


#13 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 11:55 PM

These are the Lightroom adjustments I made. It was only a quick process - so these were all I bothered with (the answer is in there - although not easy to spot):

 

string1.jpg

 

string2.jpg

 

Alex

 

 


Alexander Mustard - www.amustard.com - www.magic-filters.com
Nikon D5 (Subal housing). Nikon D7200 (Subal housing). Olympus EPL-5 (Nauticam housing).


#14 Storker

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 12:14 AM

the answer is in there - although not easy to spot


OK, I'll bite.

Is it your custom calibration profile?

#15 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 12:41 AM

Yes. The solution is to make a profile with a higher Tint starting point. This one was called 40T - as it adds an extra 40 units of Tint before you start using the Lightroom controls. 

 

String’s problem is that Canon cameras in particular can add more tint in camera (more than +150) than you can in Lightroom (limited to +150). DPP supports this in the Canon RAW file. Lightroom does not. It is why I always tell Canon shooters to use RAW + JPG when shooting filters. Or use this work around. 

 

You can also achieve a similar affect with the sliders in the Camera Calibration module - but I find them fiddly to use. The Custom profile solution is one click simple and it s stored in Lightroom for future use. The profiles are Camera specific.

 

Alex


Alexander Mustard - www.amustard.com - www.magic-filters.com
Nikon D5 (Subal housing). Nikon D7200 (Subal housing). Olympus EPL-5 (Nauticam housing).


#16 Storker

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 12:51 AM

Yes. The solution is to make a profile with a higher Tint starting point. This one was called 40T - as it adds an extra 40 units of Tint before you start using the Lightroom controls. 

 

So, your only change to the standard profile was a +40 tint? No mucking with the color tables or the primaries in the color matrices? Cool. 


Edited by Storker, 27 August 2015 - 12:52 AM.


#17 Tom_Kline

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 01:12 AM

Very interesting. I have yet to use DPP even though I have shot tons of Canon so did not know this. The result you get adding +40M as a preset is different from using a uniform color addition with the slider tool per your comment above? This little project was my first time doing this but looks like something to keep in mind for future UW color correction. My biggest issue, however, is stained water which I find very challenging to fix in a satisfactory way.

BTW I noticed that even within the normal slider range there can be some nasty artifacts, particularly with clarity.

 

 

Yes. The solution is to make a profile with a higher Tint starting point. This one was called 40T - as it adds an extra 40 units of Tint before you start using the Lightroom controls. 

 

String’s problem is that Canon cameras in particular can add more tint in camera (more than +150) than you can in Lightroom (limited to +150). DPP supports this in the Canon RAW file. Lightroom does not. It is why I always tell Canon shooters to use RAW + JPG when shooting filters. Or use this work around. 

 

You can also achieve a similar affect with the sliders in the Camera Calibration module - but I find them fiddly to use. The Custom profile solution is one click simple and it s stored in Lightroom for future use. The profiles are Camera specific.

 

Alex


Thomas C. Kline, Jr., Ph. D.
Oceanography & Limnology
Currently used housed digital cameras: Canon EOS-1Ds MkIII, EOS-1D MkIV, and EOS-1DX; and Nikon D3X. More or less retired: Canon EOS-1Ds MkII; and Nikon D1X, D2X, and D2H.

Lens focal lengths ranging from 8 to 200mm for UW use. Seacam housings and remote control gear. Seacam 60D, 150D, and 250D, Sea&Sea YS250, and Inon Z220 strobes.

http://www.salmonography.com/

 


#18 String

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 07:18 AM

Interesting, I've never played with custom profiles before. Need to look how to go about creating one.
FWIW it tried capture 1 and it's fine. The restriction appears to be entirely adobe raw.

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#19 String

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 03:14 PM

OK...

 

So how would i go about creating a "40T" calibration style profile for lightroom/ACR?

 

Ive looked at the DNG editor but that needs a colour chart which obviously isnt applicable to this.

 

EDIT:- Scrap that, i found it.  Created a 100T profile and its a massive improvement.


Edited by String, 29 September 2015 - 04:15 PM.


#20 jmauricio

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 06:23 PM

can you share how you made the custom profile?







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