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A6000 doesn't let you set shutter speed higher than 1/160 > When b.i Flash is on >> But RX100II YES?


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#1 Eitan Ben Tsvi

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 06:41 AM

What am I missing here ?!?
I have a new Sony A6000 >> GR8! camera >> all&all 100%!
 
I'm trying to set up ( M mode ) the shutter speed S = 1/250 when the built in flash is on/up >>>and the maximum shutter I can use is 1/160 ?
when I don't use it /"push it in" I can adjust the Shutter speed to any thing I want up to 4000
 
I understand that there is no such problem with other Sony camera brands like the RX100II?
( I just chat with some one that actually is shoting with Sony RX100ii + internal flash ! 
  and the set up is F11  - 1/320 - ISO 100
Also the Canon S120 can too set up any Shutter speed even when the built in flash is on/up
 
So what do you think  I'm missing here ?

THX

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#2 Phil Rudin

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 07:50 AM

Big difference between interchangeable lens cameras and consumer compact cameras. Top flash sync speed for your Sony A6000 is in fact 1/160th and some of the more highness cameras go to 1/320th or so. Some have a so called "high speed" sync but it is useless for syncing external strobes. 

 

I just reviewed the Sony RX100 III for http://uwpmag.com/ a free PDF download and I shot a bunch of macro with a 1/500th sync speed, some of those images are in the article.



#3 Eitan Ben Tsvi

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 09:00 AM

Ok THX I understand....
 
So actually it is a "different language" - of the shutter tec.?
 Betwin the interchangeable / mirrorless cameras and the point&shoot,
 that doesn't let the A6000 use higher than 1/160 ? speed ?
  
1. is it the same problem with external / hot shoe flash ?
    When the internal flesh is closed ?
 
2. Can it be that the Olympus M1 doesn't have that problem? 
     ( different shutter system ?)
 
3. For better / sharper macro pics.....?
    will the final results with the A6000, and the S1/160 ? be
     as if  p&s camera with higher  S speed ?....
     ( better camera / sensor size speed? S&S ysD1 etc. ) 
       is the s1/160 limit actually a problem ?
 
4. is there a well known solution for this ? in the underwater photography world ? 
 
Many many thx   

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#4 Phil Rudin

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 12:09 PM

This subject is an entire class that I can not explain in an on-line post, part of the issue is that you get what you pay for and lower end mirrorless cameras don't have the same features as more expensive ones. Part is sensor size, most full frame cameras are in the 1/250th range because of the mirror needing to move out of the way once the shutter is tripped. The issue relates to proprietary on-board strobes and can be overcome by a stop of light  in some cameras if your strobes are wired to the camera hot shoe and not fired firer optically. You need to do a search on how this all works because you will have a lot of different variables involved. Executable macro at 1/160th v. 1/500th has much more to do with the skill of the photographer than with the equipment both can give excellent results with some limitations. 



#5 pachku

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 08:50 PM

That's the reason why my NEX-6 now sports a set of Nikonos connectors... no TT, but who needs that anyway.



#6 Eitan Ben Tsvi

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 10:53 PM

 THX Phil :)
 

Out of the water with a strobe there is no problem >> so the solution must be through the Hot shoe
there are good solutions like this >>> http://www.backscatt.../na-26303.lasso

for $220....looking for the more economical ones





.


 


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#7 pachku

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 11:35 PM

I already discussed this with Reef Photo, and (at least in the NEX-6 housing) there is not enough space for a optical flash trigger strong enough to punch an YS-D1- they actually tried to do it, and declared it impossible. Which is why I went for the Nikonos connector through the hot shoe.



#8 Phil Rudin

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 06:48 AM

The Nauticam flash trigger is a product I am well aware of but it does not resolve the issue of the 1/160th shutter speed. At best you may get one additional stop of shutter speed and not all cameras will have any change in sync speed. You will not know without testing the product with your camera.

This Nauticam product was designed originally for cameras that don't have an included flash or on-board flash like Sony A7 series cameras.

Edited by Phil Rudin, 12 March 2015 - 06:51 AM.


#9 Eitan Ben Tsvi

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 10:04 AM

I already discussed this with Reef Photo, and (at least in the NEX-6 housing) there is not enough space for a optical flash trigger strong enough to punch an YS-D1- they actually tried to do it, and declared it impossible. Which is why I went for the Nikonos connector through the hot shoe.

 

Can you upload pics of your Nikonos sync set up (what housing brand) ?
what Shutter speed you can reach?
 
 
 
thx!

Edited by yaronad, 12 March 2015 - 01:09 PM.

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#10 pachku

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 08:50 PM

Nauticam housing. Didn't have it underwater yet, but it looks as if 1/250 or even 1/320 should be no problem.



#11 Eitan Ben Tsvi

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 11:55 PM

Nauticam housing. Didn't have it underwater yet, but it looks as if 1/250 or even 1/320 should be no problem.

OK so actually you are at 1 > 2 steps up ? not even close to the full range ....right?
it is not even close to the above water solutions .....like the Nissin i40 flash or many others  
that you can setup up to....all the way up >>>  1/4000 etc.  
 
 
 
 
So my conclusion is that Flash housing Could be a much better solution
 

 

Edited by yaronad, 13 March 2015 - 12:01 AM.

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#12 pachku

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 12:55 AM

Can't see a reason to use 1/4000 underwater. The most annoying thing about 1/160 was that it was as good as impossible to shoot nice sunbursts, and some of the small reeffish are to fast, too. But 1/320 will cover that, as seen on the Olympus cams. Might be that I can go faster than that with the YS-D1 on Nikonos, but don't care. No way you'll have enough light underwater to work with 1/4000.



#13 jmauricio

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 05:07 AM

for some reason I thought i posted yesterday.

I've used off camera flash triggers on my nex 7 and I can only get up to 1/200 speed before the shutter starts showing up in the photo. 

 

a6000 may be different so still worth finding out.



#14 Eitan Ben Tsvi

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 05:14 AM

:)

if you pass the 1/320 block >> then your Hotshoe connection is speaking the  right language >> for your camera to let you enter the no limits aria 
 
this is the issue
I my self looking to be able to reach 1/650 max....for macro

BTW I discovered that if you add hot shoe adaptor >> you might trick the camera to let you use any shutter speed you want
http://www.bhphotovi...Adapter_to.html

look at this


Edited by yaronad, 13 March 2015 - 05:15 AM.

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#15 Aquapaul

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 05:57 AM

For macro I don't see the reason for a fast shutter speed. For macro are you not lighting the whole seen with a strobe any way, the strobe flash duration is faster then 1/500, I've heard as fast as 1/10,000. More then fast enough to freeze any thing moving. Where I would have trouble with the 1/160 shutter speed would be wide angle shooting into the the sun, think a wide angle scene, a big sponge in the fore ground and a sun ball above that. That's where the 1/160 is a problem. But for macro anything over 1/100 shouldn't be a problem.

 

The way I see it is that if you are using a strobe to light the scene the shutter speed is nearly irrelevant, think shutter speed to control ambient light and aperture to control the amount of light from the strobe. If you want to shoot f/27 you are going to need a lot of light and it wouldn't matter what the shutter speed was, 1/60 would give the same result as 1/4000 because the flash duration is short, shorter the 1/4000.


Edited by Aquapaul, 13 March 2015 - 06:03 AM.

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#16 TomekP

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:14 AM

 

BTW I discovered that if you add hot shoe adaptor >> you might trick the camera to let you use any shutter speed you want
 

For macro there is no sense to use higher speed. 

 

This is perfect explanation given by Aquapaul

"The way I see it is that if you are using a strobe to light the scene the shutter speed is nearly irrelevant, think shutter speed to control ambient light and aperture to control the amount of light from the strobe. If you want to shoot f/27 you are going to need a lot of light and it wouldn't matter what the shutter speed was, 1/60 would give the same result as 1/4000 because the flash duration is short, shorter the 1/4000."

 

 

I have adaptor for flash and If I will apply time faster than 1/200 then I  will  see the edges of the shutter on the image, so there is really no sense.

RX100 has smaller sensor so it can accept faster shutter speed.

 

 

The way I see it is that if you are using a strobe to light the scene the shutter speed is nearly irrelevant, think shutter speed to control ambient light and aperture to control the amount of light from the strobe. If you want to shoot f/27 you are going to need a lot of light and it wouldn't matter what the shutter speed was, 1/60 would give the same result as 1/4000 because the flash duration is short, shorter the 1/4000.

This issue is more important when You want to take picture against the sun.

With Oly XZ-1 or RX100 I was able to setup  quite small aperture like f8, low ISO and fast shutter speed 1/1000.  Then 2xS2000 strobes are enough to get proper exposure.

With camera like Sony nex5n, You can set 1/160, this is tooooo long for sunburst, so You need to close the aperture to f22 and then You need stronger strobes like Z240. 


Edited by TomekP, 26 March 2015 - 02:18 AM.


#17 Js06

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 03:18 AM

That the A6000 max flash sync speed is 1/160. No matter in built or external, thats it's limit.



#18 singkwan

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 04:37 PM

I use my A6300 with Ikelite housing that has a hotshoe connector with sync cords to my YS-D2 strobes. WIth this setup you can get something like 1/240 shutter speeds and it will work okay. Beyond that you will have half of the image lighted by the strobe only. Watched a video on youtube explaining that this has something to do with front curtain shutter opening speed, and smaller cameras have a smaller shutter (like the Rx100 series) and have much higher shutter speeds with flash. Could be wrong, don't quote me on this :D