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GH5 IBIS performance UW


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#1 Etc

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 10:29 AM

Hi.
After studying a lots of reviews of Gh5 Vs GH5S, I think the dilemma relies on getting a great sensibility performance and sacrify IBIS or vice versa.
But my point so far is: Will IBIS do its best UW?. I mean, I suppose IBIS is designed to avoid "on land" handshaking, that is way diffetent than the wavy shanking underwater.
I haven't been able to find comparative UW footage of stabilization between GH5 and GH5S. When watching GH5 UW footage it seem to my eyes that the whether the IBIS is off or it just is doing nothing. But it is hard to tell if I can't compare, of course.
So. Has any of you guys had the chance to really test the IBIS performance UW??
My decision depends on it :)
Thanks! 


#2 Interceptor121

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 11:37 AM

Hi.
After studying a lots of reviews of Gh5 Vs GH5S, I think the dilemma relies on getting a great sensibility performance and sacrify IBIS or vice versa.
But my point so far is: Will IBIS do its best UW?. I mean, I suppose IBIS is designed to avoid "on land" handshaking, that is way diffetent than the wavy shanking underwater.
I haven't been able to find comparative UW footage of stabilization between GH5 and GH5S. When watching GH5 UW footage it seem to my eyes that the whether the IBIS is off or it just is doing nothing. But it is hard to tell if I can't compare, of course.
So. Has any of you guys had the chance to really test the IBIS performance UW??
My decision depends on it :)
Thanks! 

In my opinion it depends on what you shoot. If you shoot macro you need a tripod if you shoot super wide you dont need IBIS but for all midrange shots handheld and close up you definitely do and in my experience the performance of the sole lens is not enough
I am very wide excited to use the leica 12-60 that supports dial is 2 and hybrid with the gh5



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#3 Etc

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 12:58 PM

(...)
I am very wide excited to use the leica 12-60 that supports dial is 2 and hybrid with the gh5
 

Sorry, I don't understand this. Can you explain it to me?



#4 Interceptor121

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 01:10 PM

Sorry, I don't understand this. Can you explain it to me?

Dual IS 2 is the most advanced stabilisation mode of the GH5 only supported by a few lenses of which the 12-35 mark II and the 12-60
Other have dual IS like the 14-42
Some don’t support dual IS at all
It is useful at longer focal length handheld list close shots but also when finning around
Depending on the lens you plan to use there will be a difference or not


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#5 thetrickster

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 11:32 PM

I think you are looking for a video like this:

 

The IBIS on the GH5 used along side the Dual-IS of the native Lumix lenses is very impressive to help smooth out shooting (especially where you are finning for example) - it was one of the main reasons for moving from the GH4 to the GH5 for me. 

 

However.. if you can get your rig nicely balanced with floats arms and not twitchy on the pitch axis (which is the main movement visible) and neutral underwater (let it go and it just floats in front of you) then you are not fighting to keep it steady, and so you will be able to use the water to dampen any micro judders and have nice steady shots with the cameras even without stabilisation - like the GH5s.  (Having a top mounted monitor and big dome a prime example of how to make a rig twitchy :)

 

Other things would be filming in 60p and playing back in 30p (this removes the visibility of bumps in the footage and gives you super nice slowmo) - what I've been doing recently is filming at 30p and playing back at 24p - this gives you a 20% slowdown, so helps with any judder yet isn't slow enough to notice you've slowed it down.

 

Having both the GH5 and GH5s - its a hard choice, but the lure of DCI4K and the much better ISO performance makes me choose the GH5s.


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#6 Interceptor121

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 02:18 AM

I think you are looking for a video like this:


 
The IBIS on the GH5 used along side the Dual-IS of the native Lumix lenses is very impressive to help smooth out shooting (especially where you are finning for example) - it was one of the main reasons for moving from the GH4 to the GH5 for me. 
 
However.. if you can get your rig nicely balanced with floats arms and not twitchy on the pitch axis (which is the main movement visible) and neutral underwater (let it go and it just floats in front of you) then you are not fighting to keep it steady, and so you will be able to use the water to dampen any micro judders and have nice steady shots with the cameras even without stabilisation - like the GH5s.  (Having a top mounted monitor and big dome a prime example of how to make a rig twitchy :)
 
Other things would be filming in 60p and playing back in 30p (this removes the visibility of bumps in the footage and gives you super nice slowmo) - what I've been doing recently is filming at 30p and playing back at 24p - this gives you a 20% slowdown, so helps with any judder yet isn't slow enough to notice you've slowed it down.
 
Having both the GH5 and GH5s - its a hard choice, but the lure of DCI4K and the much better ISO performance makes me choose the GH5s.


That’s exactly the point finning and bumps is one thing but also close focus handheld work.
On this video however am not sure what lens is used. There are many 14-42 lenses panasonic, olympus etc and only one supports dual IS
Do you know?


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#7 Etc

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 03:09 PM

Regardless of the fact that slow motions help in terms of image fluidity, playing in realtime is what you want/need in some situations.
In the video I'm not really able to appreciate better stability in the GH5 footage than in the Gh5s. I Know it was not the point of the test and I don't even know whether the IBIS was turned on or not.
Do you guys appreciate the difference?
 
Is it really worth it to use for Wide angle the PZ4-42 with the WWL1 since you won't have manual focus control? (even if you use the "alternative" focus ring your control of the focus is not so accurate)


#8 thetrickster

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 09:21 PM

Is it really worth it to use for Wide angle the PZ4-42 with the WWL1 since you won't have manual focus control? (even if you use the "alternative" focus ring your control of the focus is not so accurate)


I just use single point AF (and turn off video continuous AF in the menu) and use f/5.6. Not used MF for a while.


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Regards, Richard

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Camera Rig: Nauticam Lumix GH5/GH5s, 14-42mm II, WWL-1, Atomos Inferno, ScubaLamp V6K Pro Lighting

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#9 Interceptor121

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 11:44 PM

Regardless of the fact that slow motions help in terms of image fluidity, playing in realtime is what you want/need in some situations.
In the video I'm not really able to appreciate better stability in the GH5 footage than in the Gh5s. I Know it was not the point of the test and I don't even know whether the IBIS was turned on or not.
Do you guys appreciate the difference?
 
Is it really worth it to use for Wide angle the PZ4-42 with the WWL1 since you won't have manual focus control? (even if you use the "alternative" focus ring your control of the focus is not so accurate)


I never use manual focus except for super macro. For those situations I find useful to set the camera to the minimum focus distance and then use peaking. However with a bit of work this can be done also with push af on.
For what concerns the stabiliser the GH5s lacks the sensor stabiliser in video so you are only left with the lens stabiliser that in my opinion is insufficient and works only when you are still. I have not been in the pool to run tests but my experience on the GX7 that only used the lens stabilisation is quite poor.
Coming to the GH5 and assuming your lens is stabilised you have a number of permutations depending on the activation of electronic stabiliser in video. This setting does crop the image dynamically and the amount of crop depends on how effective the camera works with the other options.
In the case of the PZ lens the GH5 DOES NOT support dual 2 nor dual IS
So you have two scenarios depending on the electronic stabiliser
Use the lens only -> GH5 and GH5s same performance
Use electronic only for GH5 camera will display the symbol for 5 axis hybrid (little hand with brackets on the side with a curved frame around it) and will crop the image a little, I have not calculated how much as I have since sold my PZ lens.
Note that if you were shooting with a lens without stabilisation like olympus or a 7-14 or 8-18 the GH5s will provide no stabilisation at all while the GH5 will give you hybrid with the sensor.
I looked at the GH5s for me this camera is something I would consider if I was shooting on land using tripods or gimbals and doing studio work
For the type of shooting I do including underwater this is not a good fit.
I also use my camera for still images with strobe and wanted to get rid of my Nikon. I believe the GH5s is targeted at a specific market and you need to understand if that is where you are


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#10 Lionfi2s

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Posted 08 September 2018 - 05:44 AM

 

Is it really worth it to use for Wide angle the PZ4-42 with the WWL1 since you won't have manual focus control? (even if you use the "alternative" focus ring your control of the focus is not so accurate)

 

What is the alternative focus ring for the PZ i am trying to find one but no luck so far



#11 Lionfi2s

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Posted 08 September 2018 - 05:47 AM

In the case of the PZ lens the GH5 DOES NOT support dual 2 nor dual IS
So you have two scenarios depending on the electronic stabiliser
Use the lens only -> GH5 and GH5s same performance
Use electronic only for GH5 camera will display the symbol for 5 axis hybrid (little hand with brackets on the side with a curved frame around it) and will crop the image a little, I have not calculated how much as I have since sold my PZ lens.

So we just need a Dual IS versus single IS video now to see if it makes any real difference



#12 Interceptor121

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Posted 08 September 2018 - 08:40 AM

So we just need a Dual IS versus single IS video now to see if it makes any real difference


You need two camera bodies on the same tray and the two different lenses.
Ideally you want the same lens on the two different bodies. The GH5s has no stabilisation of any sort only the lens has. The GH5 has hybrid IS hybrid Is with dual IS and Hybrid IS with dual IS 2. Currently none of the 14-42 lens supports dual IS 2. Some lenses support dual IS. The PZ does not support dual IS


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#13 Lionfi2s

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Posted 08 September 2018 - 09:54 PM

You need two camera bodies on the same tray and the two different lenses.
Ideally you want the same lens on the two different bodies. The GH5s has no stabilisation of any sort only the lens has. The GH5 has hybrid IS hybrid Is with dual IS and Hybrid IS with dual IS 2. Currently none of the 14-42 lens supports dual IS 2. Some lenses support dual IS. The PZ does not support dual IS


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Do you call Hybrid IS the e-stabilization option?



#14 Interceptor121

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 01:30 AM

Do you call Hybrid IS the e-stabilization option?

hybrid IS when you have in lens or body sensor stabiliser plus electronic stabiliser (page 143 of the advanced manual 5 axis hybrid)
So if you use the PZ lens and set the stabiliser of the lens to ON the camera will use the lens stabiliser plus the electronic stabiliser but not the body stabiliser
If you use the 7-14 or a lens that is not stabilised the camera will use the body stabiliser plus the electronic stabiliser

A lens with dual IS will combine lens and body stabiliser plus electronic
So there are different flavour of hybrid IS

 

I found this video that shows some land comparisons

 

 

https://www.dpreview...s/Crop_UHD.jpeg

 

according to dpreview the crop of the electronic IS is 1.09x in UHD mode so if you were happy with dual IS without electronic IS you would keep the full field of view. So your 14-42mm becomes 15.25-45.78mm to give an example

 

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Edited by Interceptor121, 09 September 2018 - 01:48 AM.

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