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4K vs 2.7K - 30fps vs 60fps, at least Sony should make the format

2.7K 4K Format Development TV Video Sony 60fps Firmware 2.7

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#1 Steddy

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 06:32 AM

Hi all
I am new here, and still looking to buy the right equipment for me.
I am used to record video in 2.7K and 60fps. This is to me the smallest format that still looks very good on a 4K TV.
But it is a must for me to record with 60fps, i get frustrated by the vibrations when looking at video recorded in 30fps and the camera is turning to follow an animal or just giving a panoramic view of the divesite.
Sony has for long used 4K with 30fps at 100mbit and yes they have had a lot of heating problems, but on their new mirrorless cameras it should no longer be a problem.
Now that it works it should not be a challenge for them or most other brands to set the software up for 2.7K with 60fps, the power usage should be about the same.

Does anyone know why they do not include this format at all?
Not even in 30fps.
Is it possible to inform Sony and the other brands that it would be a good investment as it would make their existing cameras able to record 60fps just with a firmware update?

I hope you will join the debate and maybe send a msg to Sony, Canon and so on.

#2 thetrickster

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 07:22 AM

Hi all
I am new here, and still looking to buy the right equipment for me.
I am used to record video in 2.7K and 60fps. This is to me the smallest format that still looks very good on a 4K TV.
But it is a must for me to record with 60fps, i get frustrated by the vibrations when looking at video recorded in 30fps and the camera is turning to follow an animal or just giving a panoramic view of the divesite.
Sony has for long used 4K with 30fps at 100mbit and yes they have had a lot of heating problems, but on their new mirrorless cameras it should no longer be a problem.
Now that it works it should not be a challenge for them or most other brands to set the software up for 2.7K with 60fps, the power usage should be about the same.

Does anyone know why they do not include this format at all?
Not even in 30fps.
Is it possible to inform Sony and the other brands that it would be a good investment as it would make their existing cameras able to record 60fps just with a firmware update?

I hope you will join the debate and maybe send a msg to Sony, Canon and so on.


The biggest issue for Sony (and actually Canon being the worst offender) is they really like to protect their more professional camera lines by hobbling their prosumer cameras, be it headline features like 60p or C4K, down to colour fidelity, codecs, bitrates and media used (they won’t even give us dual UHS-II slots).

With the advanced sensor tech they have, and with their sensors in almost all cameras (GoPro, Nikon, Olympus, Panasonic, Yi+, DJI, Hasselblad - the list goes on...), you would think 4K@60 would be straight forward for them - especially as some of these above already have cameras doing 4k@60 (Yi 4K+) But doing so would destroy their FS5 and FS7 lines. So it’s going to be a while.

At present there only a few cameras (with bigger than 1/3” sensors) that do 4k@60p - obviously with the GH5 being the most popular at the moment - and that probably why it is so popular.

The A7iii has just been announced, but that also suffers from lack of 4k@60 - even 30p is cropped, and suffers from the other hobbled features it should have. But it’s only $2000. Which is a steal.

But I’m sure come summer and the eventual A7s iii ($4500?) that’s when Sony should give us 4k@60, 10bits etc - but I would guess this will only be after the FS5/7 get updates, they can’t have their prosumer cameras at 1/3 the price outperforming their professional lines - especially ones where there is a lot of already crossover use.

I would be surprised if we had nothing from Sony in 2018. Shocked actually.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Edited by thetrickster, 12 March 2018 - 05:05 AM.

Regards, Richard

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Camera Rig: Nauticam Lumix GH5/GH5s, 14-42mm II, WWL-1, Atomos Inferno, ScubaLamp V6K Pro Lighting

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#3 TaxiDiver14

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 07:38 AM

6K 30p and 4K 60p... maybe ?

#4 Steddy

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 12:56 PM

Hi Richard, thetrickster

Thank you for your input. It could explain a lot.
I do how ever still not see why the smaller format 2.7K in 60fps could threaten the FS5 and FS7 lines.
Is there any mechanical limitations or maybe 2.7K is patended? I know now i sound desperate.

#5 Akoni

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 01:20 PM

Not having 4k/2.7k60p may well be a hardware limitation but that is pure speculation. Though, I do not believe that having some of those additional features threatens their higher range cameras. After all, those cameras provide true professional ('real' audio, eND, etc) features that the smaller cameras cannot touch. The people that need the high end cameras will still get them, and the folks that cannot afford the high end cams will rent or use a Panasonic! 

 

I would not hold my breath for a 2.7k60p option as much as I would like that to happen in the A7iii.



#6 thetrickster

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 12:50 AM

I do how ever still not see why the smaller format 2.7K in 60fps could threaten the FS5 and FS7 lines. 

Is there any mechanical limitations or maybe 2.7K is patended?

 

Nope. Marketing. Purely Marketing.

 

DJI had used 2.7K in its Phantom Drones and GoPro used it back in 2015 in their Hero4. But both are now 4K.

 

Most of the 4K cameras now are using 10/20+MP sensors (the A7r ii is 40mp isn't it?) and are either downsampling to 4K or pixel binning. (so could do to 2.7K easily)

 

We are talking every day consumers who buy the majority of these cameras, most of which don’t use them to their full potential, however selling them a camera only able to shoot 2.7K yet on the next aisle, selling them a 4K HDR TV makes for marketing disaster.

 

I agree that 2.7K is a nice resolution to work with, and for probably all online viewing its fine, but it has no meaningful marketing presence, there is no standard to it, and the horse has bolted, 4K is here, and Sony has already set in motion moving to 8K...

 

m-sony8khdr.jpg

 

4K@60 is here, but not with Sony or Canon for under $2000...


Edited by thetrickster, 12 March 2018 - 12:51 AM.

Regards, Richard

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Camera Rig: Nauticam Lumix GH5/GH5s, 14-42mm II, WWL-1, Atomos Inferno, ScubaLamp V6K Pro Lighting

www.richardwait.com


#7 Steddy

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 08:22 AM

er.
 
4K@60 is here, but not with Sony or Canon for under $2000...



I had hoped that a7r iii or a7iii had 4K 60fps.
Were do you see the 4K 60fps? I would like it to be in a camera that takes very good pictures as well when diving.
Therefore i mostly looked for fullframe cameras

#8 Barmaglot

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 11:06 AM

I had hoped that a7r iii or a7iii had 4K 60fps.
Were do you see the 4K 60fps? I would like it to be in a camera that takes very good pictures as well when diving.
Therefore i mostly looked for fullframe cameras

 

Panasonic GH5 can do 3840x2160 @ 60p and GH5S can do 4096x2160 @ 60p.



#9 Akoni

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 11:10 AM

I had hoped that a7r iii or a7iii had 4K 60fps.
Were do you see the 4K 60fps? I would like it to be in a camera that takes very good pictures as well when diving.
Therefore i mostly looked for fullframe cameras

 

Look at the GH5, it has 4K60p, 10-bit 4K30p, a decently high bit rate, etc. It takes excellent stills as well. The only thing lackluster on the GH5 is the autofocus performance. Of course, they all are a series of compromises as there is no perfect camera. 


Edited by Akoni, 12 March 2018 - 11:12 AM.


#10 TaxiDiver14

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 11:34 AM

I will say.... LOOK A7III

#11 Barmaglot

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 07:47 PM

I will say.... LOOK A7III

 

While A7 III is, by all accounts, an awesome stills camera, it records 4K at up to 30fps, and doesn't record DCI 4K at all, so it doesn't fit the OP's needs. A7S III likely will, but we don't know when it is going to come out.



#12 Steddy

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 02:03 PM

Thanks for all your inputs.
I think i need to buy a cheaper maybe used rig until the right camera is on the marked.

As mentioned in the beginning i am new here. Is there a rule about liking the best answer or similar?

#13 thetrickster

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 04:01 AM

If you aren't ready to spend big on a camera that doesn't fit your needs or likes (if you preference is to stick with Sony for example) I wouldn't get something 2nd hand which isn't what you want.

 

I personally I would get a GoPro 6 (or whatever it is these days) for its 4K@60 (so forfiling your needs) and spend the rest of some very good quality lights.

The lights will stick with you, when eventually you buy the camera you really want.


Regards, Richard

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Camera Rig: Nauticam Lumix GH5/GH5s, 14-42mm II, WWL-1, Atomos Inferno, ScubaLamp V6K Pro Lighting

www.richardwait.com


#14 Steddy

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 11:44 PM

That is a very good point.
I just read about the canon DX1 mark II
It fits the needs regarding video, but it would double my budget. As a private person with a hobby, that would be way too much.
I guess i will wait.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: 2.7K, 4K, Format, Development, TV, Video, Sony, 60fps, Firmware, 2.7