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Fisheye and wide angle advice


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#1 Scuba_Pro

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:47 PM

Hi guys,

Ok so I will be upgrading from a 7D to full frame and have some questions. Currently I use a tokina 10-17 with a zen 100mm dome and throw a 1.4 tc on for real CFWA.

Now I love the CFWA but I also want to branch out and use a bigger dome when I upgrade for over-under etc. As I have only ever shot fisheye behind a small dome I am a bit confused as to what I want to get.

Lets base my questions on upgrading to a 5D mkiv.

I want to still keep the ability to shoot CFWA with a fisheye, for reefs and any big fish that will come close. For this can you use tokina shaved with the full frame and mini dome?

However I also want to shoot behind a big dome, if I kept the tokina will it work behind a large dome also? Or should I be looking at say the sigma 15mm for shooting behind both domes OR should I be looking at having either the sigma or tokina with a nice rectilinear behind a large dome?

Basically I am a little so confused if my tokina will suffice on a full frame and behind a large dome. Do fisheyes even work that well behind large domes?

Excuse the babbling but any help or tips would be appreciated.

Thanks

#2 TimG

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 01:34 AM

Hey!

Ive found that the Tokina just doesnt work well with on an FX sensor camera with a 100 dome although Im comparing Nikon bodies: D500 and D800. Not tried it behind a 230 dome but certainly image quality was poor even ignoring the vignetting caused by the 100 dome.

The Sigma 15mm works well with a DP230 dome.

For rectilinear (I use the Nikkor 16-35) you definitely need the 230 dome.

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#3 JohnnyQuest

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 05:21 AM

I went through the exact same thing. I upgraded from the 7D with the Tokina 10-17 to the 5Dm4. I agonized over it for a long time and made myself (and others) crazy. I eventually sold the 10-17 and bought the Canon 8-15. I also went with the Nauticam 140mm dome. After reading Alex Mustard's article, I decided that 100mm would be a bit small. My concern was also that I didn't want to give up the CFWA. I just returned from my first trip with the new system, and the new port/lens will still focus with the subject touching the port. I think it's a great combination. The only downside, is that there really isn't any zoom with the 8-15; it's just a 15. You can shoot full circle at 8, but it's either that or 15. Ok, the other downside is that I had to spend a lot of money and then justify it to my wife! 

 

I kept my Kenko 1.4TC but haven't yet tried it underwater. I've played with the above water, and it seems to focus quickly and give sharp results with the 8-15 above water. I'm going to get the necessary extension ring and zoom gear so I can use the TC on my next trip, which will be a big animal trip.

 

I hope that helps. 


Edited by JohnnyQuest, 08 December 2017 - 05:23 AM.


#4 Scuba_Pro

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 05:23 AM

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the reply,

So the tokina 10-17mm type II that backscatter sells does not work well for full frame? I am a bit confused, is this lens is essentially the same as the one I already have or different.

I would jump right into the 15mm sigma just concerned I would miss the wider 10-15mm end of the tokina I use now as I shoot a lot at those focal lengths.

Anyone have any experience of the 8-15mm fisheye behind both the DP230 or DP100?

Thanks,

Luke

#5 Scuba_Pro

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 05:30 AM

Hi Johnny,

Thanks for the reply, very helpful, I posted just after you had so missed it.

Ok so you cannot shoot at 10mm on the 8-15/5dmkiv and have the same image effect as 10mm on the tokina/7D? If that is the case I am not too concerned about the full circular fisheye effect at 8mm and would go for the sigma 15mm.

Thanks,

#6 JohnnyQuest

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 09:25 AM

At any focal length < 14mm, you'll start to see black at the corners. You could shoot there, but you'd have to crop the shot afterwards.

 

This link shows how the image will look at various focal lengths:

https://www.the-digi...sheye-Lens.aspx

 

I believe that with the 1.4TC, you will have a useful range of about 15 - 21 before you'd see the black corners.



#7 Scuba_Pro

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 09:48 AM

Aha thanks, makes sense.

Any reason you opted for the 8-15 instead of the sigma 15?

#8 JohnnyQuest

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:31 AM

Because the Canon is more expensive!!  :)

 

I read a couple of reviews between the two that say that the Canon is a bit sharper. That may be imaginary, and even if so, it's probably negligible. Actually, since I plan on using it with the 1.4TC, the zoom function of the Canon should come in handy. That's really the only reason.

 

Plus I found my 8-15 used for about the price of the 15 new.



#9 Scuba_Pro

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 08:35 AM

Thanks! So I am leaning towards the 15mm sigma with a DP230.

Do people regularly have both a FE and rectilinear in their kit bags?

#10 Scuba_Pro

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 04:37 PM

Hi guys,

Just an update, I have opted with the 16-35f4 as I will use this topside also and will house it behind the zen dp230. Very excited as I have never used rectilinear or a large dome in 5 years of shooting with my 7D.

So I guess my question now is similar to before, I am worried I will miss the close focus ability of the tokina behind a small dome,k CFWA. Now I still have the zen dp 100, and it was my thought to use a FE behind it with my mkiv for some CFWA. Looking at the sigma which I was just about to pull the trigger on it seems doesn’t work too well behind this dome, so I guess is the 8-15 really my only CFWA option behind the 4” with a FF?

Thanks

#11 Tom_Kline

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 06:23 AM

 so I guess is the 8-15 really my only CFWA option behind the 4” with a FF?

 

 

First, I recommend watching this video:

To do CFW with the Canon 8-15mm at 15mm on FF I use a smallish wide-angle port  (Seacam "wideport") that has a radius of curvature that is greater than typical of  microdomes (approximately 2'' (50mm) ).


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Currently used housed digital cameras: Canon EOS-1Ds MkIII, EOS-1D MkIV, and EOS-1DX; and Nikon D3X. More or less retired: Canon EOS-1Ds MkII; and Nikon D1X, D2X, and D2H.

Lens focal lengths ranging from 8 to 200mm for UW use. Seacam housings and remote control gear. Seacam 60D, 150D, and 250D, Sea&Sea YS250, and Inon Z220 strobes.

http://www.salmonography.com/

 


#12 Scuba_Pro

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 09:17 AM

Thanks for the video Tom. I was/am aware of all the information due to shooting cfwa for years with the tokina and my 7D.

Was just wondering from anyone’s experience if I can get acceptable results with a FF and small 4” dome. How does your system work with the wideport? Do you have to stop down a lot?

Thanks

#13 Tom_Kline

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 09:50 AM

Thanks for the video Tom. I was/am aware of all the information due to shooting cfwa for years with the tokina and my 7D.

Was just wondering from anyone’s experience if I can get acceptable results with a FF and small 4” dome. How does your system work with the wideport? Do you have to stop down a lot?

Thanks

I stop down a fair amount - more now that I am shooting with higher ISO capability. I have a Seacam 4" dome but use it these days with a 1D4. I have been too chicken to shoot it with FF, ROTFL!

Here is shot from this year: http://www.salmonogr...Act/i-5sdnkC5/A

Looks like I used f/14 (with the Wideport) and ISO 6400 (reading the exif data off my website) - this is a natural light shot with direct sunlight on the fish. It was 2.5 hours after mid-day.


Thomas C. Kline, Jr., Ph. D.
Oceanography & Limnology
Currently used housed digital cameras: Canon EOS-1Ds MkIII, EOS-1D MkIV, and EOS-1DX; and Nikon D3X. More or less retired: Canon EOS-1Ds MkII; and Nikon D1X, D2X, and D2H.

Lens focal lengths ranging from 8 to 200mm for UW use. Seacam housings and remote control gear. Seacam 60D, 150D, and 250D, Sea&Sea YS250, and Inon Z220 strobes.

http://www.salmonography.com/

 


#14 SteveK

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 10:31 PM

Tim, I was also shooting the 7D and Tokina and really liked the 4" dome for almost everything but splits. 

But like JohnnyQuest I've recently moved from this setup to the 5d4 with similar "agony" in decision making.

I've shot the 8-15 with a kenko 1.4 tele behind the Nauticam 140mm (5.5") dome and it works quite well, mostly shot at f10. I also shot it straight behind the Sea&Sea 10 inch dome and am quite happy with it.