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#41 Steve Douglas

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:04 AM

Davide,
Thanks for those most recent links. I will pass them on. I really found them interesting and, in a discussion yesterday with someone, we talked about how it was actually fun to learn more and more about this BM cam finding the good and the bad. Remember that this is a first generation cam so there should be improvements down the line.
Steve

No optical stabilization in the BMD cam. Hmmm

Edited by Steve Douglas, 31 August 2012 - 11:01 AM.

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I have worked as an unpaid reviewer for the editing websites since 2002. Most all hardware and software is sent to me free of charge, however, in no way am I obligated to provide either positive or negative evaluations. Any suggestions I make regarding products are a result of my own, completely, personal opinions and experiences with said products.

#42 Steve Douglas

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 10:24 AM

It is widely known that a companies advertised specs for most anything including camera gear, stereo equipment and a wide variety of other devices do not always, and frequently do not, meet the actual performance of said equipment. That is why reviewers review a product. In some cases, the performance actually does better than advertised specs, but often it is the other way around.

We always tell beginners to do their research and learn, learn, learn before they actually buy anything. This means learning from a variety of sources and yes, sometimes a reviewer can misinterpret something.
When I write reviews, I always send a preview URL of the article to the company before publication to be sure there are no errors of this kind. Sometimes I do get a correction which I am always happy to make as it only makes the article more accurate and helpful.
Unfortunately, most print reviews are not to be taken too seriously as they rarely point out deficiencies and usually only praise the product. I believe this is because these same companies take out expensive magazine advertisements and the mags do not want to lose this financial source. Fortunately, for me, I can be critical but, even then, I try to do so diplomatically. It is rare, but it has happened that I have been sent a product for review that was so bad that I refused to write it up. Rather than trash the company, I just don't provide that gear or software the publicity.
There is no 1 expert. Everyone can bring something to the table which the individual can sort out for themselves. In fact, this brings to mind a discussion I had back in 92 with Wayne Hanson on the Okeanos Aggressor. Wayne was then the sole owner of the Aggressor Fleet. They hand out applications to all divers and ask them to check whether they are beginners, intermediates, advanced or experts. He said that anyone who checks themselves as an 'Expert' is the one who they watch most closely as they are the most likely to get themselves in trouble. Glad I just listed myself as an 'advanced' diver, but what he said stuck with me and I believe it applies to a great many other situations and people.

Edited by Steve Douglas, 01 September 2012 - 08:24 AM.

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#43 Steve Douglas

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:21 PM

There are 3 recently added films to the one I posted before. One is an interview with Grant Petty, the CEO of BM discussing this new cam.
http://www.moviemachine.tv
Steve

Edited by Steve Douglas, 02 September 2012 - 02:25 PM.

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#44 Drew

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:21 AM

BlackMagic announced at EIBC that they are also going to produce a passive MFT (micro four thirds) mount version of the BMCC so that manually operated MFT lenses (like Leica M and R) can be used. Price and features will be the same. The cameras are now slowly shipping and the MFT version will ship in December.



Press Release
Blackmagic Design today announced a second model of the Blackmagic Cinema Camera that features passive Micro Four Thirds lens (MFT) mount, so customers now have an even greater choice of lens options when shooting. The new Blackmagic Cinema Camera MFT model supports any Micro Four Thirds with manual iris and focus, and is also easily adapted to other lens mounts such as PL via third party adapters. The ability to use third party adapters to allow other types of lens mount is due to the Micro Four Thirds lens mount being much closer to the image sensor and allowing space for adapters to other lens mounts.

Blackmagic Cinema Camera MFT is identical to the original Blackmagic Cinema Camera model, however does not include lens communication so manual lenses are used. The current model of Blackmagic Cinema Camera will be renamed Blackmagic Cinema Camera EF to let customers easily differentiate between the models.

About Blackmagic Cinema Camera MFT

Blackmagic Cinema Camera includes a super wide 13 stops of dynamic range, large 2.5K sensor, a built in SSD recorder that has the bandwidth to capture open standard CinemaDNG RAW, Apple ProRes and Avid DNxHD files, a built in capacitive touch screen for direct metadata entry, standard jack audio connections, built in high speed Thunderbolt connection, 3 Gb/s SDI output, a refrigerated sensor for low noise, and is fully compatible with an even wider range of extremely high quality Micro Four Thirds mount lenses, plus other lenses such as PL mount lenses via common third party adapters.


Blackmagic Cinema Camera MFT also includes a full copy of DaVinci Resolve for color correction and Blackmagic UltraScope software for waveform monitoring. This means the user can simply plug into Thunderbolt laptop and run UltraScope to get full waveform monitoring scopes on set!


One of the most important features of the camera is its super wide dynamic range of 13 stops, allowing feature film quality images. Commonly people focus on more pixels, however often this just creates a higher resolution, but ?video? looking images that still suffer from highlight and black clipping that limits details. Blackmagic Cinema Camera?s wide dynamic range eliminates this problem and provides film quality with dramatically more detail retained in black and whites in the image. Once the shoot is complete, the included DaVinci Resolve color correction software can be used to adjust images and take advantage of this extra range in the images. The high quality Micro Four Thirds lens compatibility also helps create sharp and cinematic images that look incredible.


To eliminate the damage that low bit depth and high compression video storage creates, Blackmagic Cinema Camera includes a fast SSD recorder. The built in SSD recorder can record the full sensor detail in 12 bit Log RAW files in the open standard CinemaDNG format on fast solid state disks. These files can be read by all high end video software. The full 2.5K sensor data is stored in the files completely uncompressed because the SSD has the speed to store video data at the required rate. This high quality file can then be color corrected on DaVinci Resolve for the same high quality result currently only possible on cameras costing tens of thousands of dollars.


Blackmagic Cinema Camera has been designed as the perfect companion to Apple Final Cut Pro X and Avid Media Composer NLE software. Unlike other cameras, which require the use of custom video file formats that are not compatible with popular NLE software, often making the post production process a nightmare, the Blackmagic Cinema Camera includes absolutely no custom video file formats, and every file type included is open standard. It records into CinemaDNG format for RAW files, Apple ProRes and Avid DNxHD for HD resolution files compatible with Apple Final Cut Pro X and Avid Media Composer.


The built in large LCD display makes focusing easy, and allows playback of captured files. Blackmagic Cinema Camera includes a built in microphone, as well as external jack based mic/line level balanced audio connections. When playing back recorded clips, a speaker is built in, and there is an included headphone socket, as well as embedded audio on the SDI output and Thunderbolt connection. The SDI output includes all camera data such as timecode, transport control, shutter angle, color temperature setting and ASA information overlaid in attractive antialiased fonts.


For easy metadata entry, the built in LCD features fast and responsive capacitive touch screen technology. When the user taps the display with a finger, a data entry window called the "slate" appears. This lets the user enter shot information just like typing on a smart phone. This data is then stored in the files and can be accessed by NLE software when editing content later. Metadata is compatible with popular software such as Apple Final Cut Pro X and DaVinci Resolve. All camera settings can be changed on this touch LCD, such as frame rate, shutter angle, color temperature, dynamic range, focus assist settings and more.


Blackmagic Cinema Camera includes an innovative industrial design built from solid machined aluminum metal which results in an attractive but rugged design. All of the camera, recorder and display have been shrunk down into a lightweight design that is very portable.


?One of the most common customer requests since announcing the original model of the Blackmagic Cinema Camera is other lens mounts,? said Grant Petty, CEO, Blackmagic Design. ?We felt that Micro Four Thirds was a fantastic option and so we designed a second model with this mount. Only Micro Four Thirds lets cinematographers use a wide range of creative lenses, but it also easily adapts to other lens mounts such as PL mount, so the range of exciting lens options is virtually unlimited!?


Blackmagic Cinema Camera Key Features

Blackmagic Cinema Camera MFT is identical to the Blackmagic Cinema Camera EF model.

High resolution 2.5K sensor allows improved anti aliasing and reframing shots.

Super wide 13 stops of dynamic range allows capture of increased details for feature film look.

Built in SSD allows high bandwidth recording of RAW video and long duration compressed video.

Open file formats compatible with popular NLE software such as CinemaDNG 12 bit RAW, Apple ProRes and Avid DNxHD. No custom file formats.

Includes no custom connections. Standard jack mic/line audio in, BNC 3 Gb/s SDI out, headphone, high speed Thunderbolt I/O technology, LANC remote control and standard DC 12-30V power connection.

Capacitive touch screen LCD for camera settings and ?slate? metadata entry.

Compatible with extremely high quality Micro Four Thirds lenses and other mounts via adapters.

Supports 2.5K and 1080HD resolution capture in 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97 and 30 fps.

Thunderbolt connection allows direct camera capture via included Media Express software and supports live waveform monitoring via the included Blackmagic UltraScope software.

Includes a full copy of DaVinci Resolve 9.0 color grading software.


Availability and Price

Blackmagic Cinema Camera MFT will be available December 2012 for US$2,995 from Blackmagic Design resellers worldwide. The EF compatible lens mount model will be renamed as Blackmagic Cinema Camera EF so customers can differentiate the two models. Price for both models is the same, and customers can order each model depending on the lens mount they prefer.


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#45 Davide DB

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 02:11 PM

Davide,
Thanks for those most recent links. I will pass them on. I really found them interesting and, in a discussion yesterday with someone, we talked about how it was actually fun to learn more and more about this BM cam finding the good and the bad. Remember that this is a first generation cam so there should be improvements down the line.


I came across this comparison between 5DMK3 and BMC. They are compared for "dynamic range, sharpness, pushing levels, banding, artifacts, rolling shutter, chromakeying, wide/telephoto lengths, DOF (depth of field), low light, macro blocking, contrast, and more"

From what I understand they tried to shot in challenging conditions trying to see the camera limits. Maybe I missed something because the clips from the 5dMKIII are the ugliest I've seen so far. Really strange.

I suggest to see fullscreen and reading the video desciption.

[vimeo]49875510[/vimeo]
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https://vimeo.com/bocio/

#46 Davide DB

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 05:04 AM

Usually I do not care too much to rumors but this one if confirmed would be very interesting for us...

http://www.43rumors....rt-coming-2013/

Shortly, BM is working on a new version of their M43 mount camera. The new one will have “active m43 mount” which means it supports electronic contacts for zoom, aperture and focus control.

This could be the right step to have shortly an underwater housing. Last week, during a scuba show event I spoke with two different Italian housing manufacturers. Both confirmed to have received several requests for a BMCC housing but they soon discarded the idea because designing a dedicate port with aperture/focus control would be too hard and expensive from a commercial POV.

So maybe this is a good news if confirmed. 2014 of course....

Edited by Davide DB, 10 October 2012 - 05:04 AM.

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#47 Steve Douglas

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 09:20 AM

This just came out...haven't watched it yet.

http://www.moviemach...amera/50294308/

Edited by Steve Douglas, 10 October 2012 - 09:21 AM.

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#48 HDVdiver

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:08 PM

Even if the rumour about upgrading the passive M4/3 mount is not true, don't forget that even a passive mount opens up the use of many types of good (and very cheap) old manual lenses from Nikon, Canon, Zeiss Contax and Minolta with the correct adaptor. Most can be de-clicked if necessary.

Some of the old ultra-wides actually produce a nicer image than modern Lumix or Olympus lenses. Posted Image

Edited by HDVdiver, 10 October 2012 - 03:10 PM.


#49 Davide DB

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:05 AM

Even if the rumour about upgrading the passive M4/3 mount is not true, don't forget that even a passive mount opens up the use of many types of good (and very cheap) old manual lenses from Nikon, Canon, Zeiss Contax and Minolta with the correct adaptor. Most can be de-clicked if necessary.

Some of the old ultra-wides actually produce a nicer image than modern Lumix or Olympus lenses. Posted Image


In my comments and opinions I'm trying to stick with underwater use, I would not buy a manual focus camera for uw use. Ok manual focus is nice for macro work but for wide shots is a pita. :)
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#50 Steve Douglas

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:47 AM

I would have to disagree with you on this Davide. Underwater, and especially for wide angle shots into the blue, the iris can easily be fooled when shooting auto focus. This can force the clip to go in and out of focus because the cam doesn't quite know whether to focus on the shark in the distance or the blue water. Thus, manual focus has always been the better way to go. Actually, the only time I might use auto focus is for macro work where the lens does a better job than my old eyes.
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I have worked as an unpaid reviewer for the editing websites since 2002. Most all hardware and software is sent to me free of charge, however, in no way am I obligated to provide either positive or negative evaluations. Any suggestions I make regarding products are a result of my own, completely, personal opinions and experiences with said products.

#51 Ryan

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:44 PM

Even if the rumour about upgrading the passive M4/3 mount is not true, don't forget that even a passive mount opens up the use of many types of good (and very cheap) old manual lenses from Nikon, Canon, Zeiss Contax and Minolta with the correct adaptor. Most can be de-clicked if necessary.

Some of the old ultra-wides actually produce a nicer image than modern Lumix or Olympus lenses. Posted Image


What would you use? Larger format ultra-wides aren't that wide on this system, unfortunately.

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#52 HDVdiver

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:51 PM

What would you use? Larger format ultra-wides aren't that wide on this system, unfortunately.


Minolta MD 7.5mm

#53 CamDiver

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:05 PM

To put the cat amongst the pigeons, I am making, or at least planning to supply a surf / wet environment housing for this camera. Have got the first prototype molds made and now playing around with design flaws Gen.1 The product is NOT intended to be a deep SCUBA diving solution for the camera, there are many manufacturers with deeper pockets and understanding of the construction process than myself. This will be for surf, pool and element protection shooting options.

This is a project I am entering into with the Liquid Eye water housing company who sponsor my surf photography housings. Eventually the housing will bear my company name, liquidmocean, but will also carry branding from Liquid Eye in recognition of their manufacturing of the product.

Initially I'm going to be building around the Tokina 11-16mm wide lens (really hoping that sensor gets a boost in future updates). There will also be a HD SDI wet mate connectivity for pool shoots / topside monitoring.

More info will be forthcoming as and when available.

Cheers,
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#54 Nick Hope

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:57 PM

I would have to disagree with you on this Davide. Underwater, and especially for wide angle shots into the blue, the iris can easily be fooled when shooting auto focus. This can force the clip to go in and out of focus because the cam doesn't quite know whether to focus on the shark in the distance or the blue water. Thus, manual focus has always been the better way to go. Actually, the only time I might use auto focus is for macro work where the lens does a better job than my old eyes.
Steve

But don't you use momentary auto focus to set the focus in manual mode? Or do you do it by eye in manual mode?

#55 Davide DB

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:57 AM

Minolta MD 7.5mm


Or the Samyang fisheye 7mm... but, again, how do you control the iris and the focus?
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#56 Davide DB

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:29 AM

I would have to disagree with you on this Davide. Underwater, and especially for wide angle shots into the blue, the iris can easily be fooled when shooting auto focus. This can force the clip to go in and out of focus because the cam doesn't quite know whether to focus on the shark in the distance or the blue water. Thus, manual focus has always been the better way to go. Actually, the only time I might use auto focus is for macro work where the lens does a better job than my old eyes.
Steve


Hi Steve, personally even with my 11/10 diopters I would not be able to manual focus a shark into the blue. At least with a 3" screen.
With my old consumer Sony HC07 housing I had MF or AF. Given that AF was continuosly hunting in the blue, for these shots I was locking the focus at about 3/4 meters hoping that DOF will be enough deep, to put simply an endless bet.

Now, with my GH2, again the AF is easily fooled by the big blue :) So, two options: as above trying to mantain a pretty close aperture or (the method I use often) using the single AF which is very reliable on the subject via the AF-Lock button. Now the focus is locked and again I'm depending on the DOF.

I haven't experience with a pro camcorderd and a large display (maybe with focus peaking)...
Anyway MF or AF, I don't know the commercial appeal of a MF only camera/housing. What do you think?

Bye
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#57 HDVdiver

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:32 PM

Or the Samyang fisheye 7mm... but, again, how do you control the iris and the focus?


Focus is fixed (only works with a large dome since can't use a diopter). Aperture controlled manually.

Comparative tests I've done with a couple Samyang/Rokinors leave me very unimpressed with their optical quality (they don't look too bad until you do a side-by-side comparison with the Lumix 8mm, Minolta MD 7.5mm or Canon FD 7.5mm.

The Lumix 8mm is a superb lens. I use the Minolta in addition because the color rendition and sharpness is unmatched by anything else I have ever used (including Zeiss optics). I quess that's why they are very hard to find in good condition and mint ones sell for more than a new Lumix 8mm.

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Edited by HDVdiver, 12 October 2012 - 12:40 PM.


#58 Dmitriy

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:02 PM

So I made an account on here just to post the possible touchscreen solution:
http://blog.makezine...andrea-bianchi/

Maybe blackmagic will figure it out :-)

#59 MJvC

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:52 AM

I came across this test the other day comparing 8bit dslr capture vs 12bit of the BMC. I am not sure if the method of comparison gives an accurate representation but the respective videos are quite different even when viewed on VIMEO.
http://nofilmschool....-cinema-camera/
or