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Do you shoot video with your SLR.


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#21 SimonSpear

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 02:50 AM

Hiya Nick

I sold the V1 last year, so at the moment I have been filming exclusively with the 7D both underwater and topside. When a new 'camcorder' comes onto the market that meets all my requirements I'll probably buy it, but until then the 7D is performing really well and the more I use it the more impressed I've become. It can still be a pain in the ass at times though and you have remember that it is not a 'camcorder' so you are limited in how you can use it (not great for run and gun type shoots etc).

I did some topside side by side comparisons with the V1 and to be honest there really wasn't a comparison. I've done topside side by side comparisons with an EX1 and we ended up using the 7D footage for 80% of what we shot. Underwater the 7D's 1080p quality is really superb and I'd love to do a side by side shoot with an EX1 to see how they compared.

I've mainly been using the 10-22mm EFS lens and I've had no focusing issues with that. I've also done some macro using the 100mm EF lens and while it wasn't impossible to get a good focus it was harder.

Sure the 7D has got its faults but it is reasonably compact and easy to travel with and in its price range it doesn't really have a lot of competition (you can get it underwater cheaper than you can buy and EX1 and the 5dmkII is double the price of the 7D for very little if any additional benefit).

Cheers, Simon

#22 Davide DB

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 09:03 AM

Hi Andrea

Yes, everything was shot in full manual. When shooting video you can't change shutter speed (fixed at either 1/50 PAL or 1/60 NTSC) and you only have 2 usable settings for ISO (either 160 or 320) then all you have to adjust is aperture, so it is very easy to shoot in manual mode.

Cheers, Simon


Hi Simon. Thank you for your kind explanation. You answer bring me to another question (I'm starting experimenting with a hacked GF1, topside):

Imagine I have to shoot a 2 minute sunset. I fix 1/50 and then I would start with a high aperture because the sun is still bright. But as the sun goes down... I need to open the aperture to mantain a correct exposure... On my camera if I change the aperture during a shoot, the F value changes is clearly visible. I've tried with the ISO and it's the same.
I've tried fully automatic but I see a lot of banding on the dark moments. It's the same for the sunrise or, actually, any medium/long shoot with a strong difference of lights.
For my old point&shot camcorder filming a sunset/sunrise is like drinking a glass of water.
I read on another forum that the same problem appears with the GH13: you cannot change aperture while shooting AKA you set everything for the shoot and once you start recording you can play only with the focus. The proposed solution was: a timelapse.

Speaking about underwater shoots... I have wreck which lies on a 45 degree sea bottom: the bow is at 24 meter while the stern is at 57 meter. I should have the same problem being at mid ship and doing a camera pan from bow to stern.

What's about the 7D and 5DMKII?

Are these endless fussing about nothing or here lies the difference with a proper camocrder?


Bye

Edited by M43user, 25 January 2011 - 09:13 AM.

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#23 SimonSpear

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 09:39 AM

I think both of those are very good examples of the difference between using a proper 'camcorder' and a HDSLR. With a camcorder you can just set to auto exposure and the camera will automatically adjust everything it needs to, where a HDSLR you need to manually change all the settings on the fly which if not impossible, it can be very difficult to get the results you want.

Cheers, Simon

#24 Drew

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 09:55 AM

Just use a variable ND filter and change exposure that way. It's the smoothest way to do it although you will have to be very vigilant. It's not easy for those who aren't experienced focus pullers, but with a bit of practice, a strong tripod and a light touch, it can work nicely.
Just work out the color casts of the filter and WB it before you shoot.

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#25 derway

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 09:56 AM

Do the canon D60 and t2i, have the same video quality, and capabilities as the 7D?

No autofocus while shooting video? Surely you can change aperture, if the lens has an aperture ring...

I guess the d7000 has ok video, but 24p for wildlife seems limiting. Changing settings requires leaving video mode...

I've been tempted to drop my last remaining nikon gear, (left overs from film SLR), and jump to canon, as I really want to do video and stills underwater. But I want small and light.

On the other hand, a gf1 or gh2 might be the best compromise going, today. Just not enough m43 lenses out yet. Hardly any that are f2.8. Zooms do not focus close..

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#26 SimonSpear

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 12:10 PM

Personally I've only used a 5DmkII and a 7D. They do not produce the same image, but they are both nice in their own way and I wouldn't personally say that one is better than the other. Some people prefer the 5DmkII, some prefer the 7D.

From what I have seen the 550D/T2i, 60D and the 1DmkIV all also produce very nice video, but again they are all slightly different with their own plus and minus points. I've never used those cameras so this comes from only what I've seen in comparison tests.

With regard to the lack of auto focus then there is not anyone I know who uses auto focus underwater as there are far too many particles even in clear tropical water to get away with it without focus 'hunting' ruining the shots. For WA shots you can set focus and as long as you use F7+ you can normally get away without changing focus at all.

Cheers, Simon

P.S. I should just add that I'm not a champion of HDSLR's. As I've said many times before they can be a pain in the ass to use and I would always choose a similar quality 'camcorder' above them given no budget or other restrictions.

Edited by SimonSpear, 25 January 2011 - 12:13 PM.


#27 Davide DB

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 01:13 PM

Just use a variable ND filter and change exposure that way. It's the smoothest way to do it although you will have to be very vigilant. It's not easy for those who aren't experienced focus pullers, but with a bit of practice, a strong tripod and a light touch, it can work nicely.
Just work out the color casts of the filter and WB it before you shoot.


Humm :P for the sunrise/sunset ok but underwater?

Why whatever plain camcorder can change aperture smoothly nearly without showing what's going on and a HDSLR cannot?
I mean from the technical point of view.

Bye
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#28 Drew

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 07:15 PM

You asked how to change exposure for the dusk/dawn shots. So I supplied a possible solution.

Underwater, you just have to segment your shots for a sequence. Requires a bit of planning but the results will certainly be as good if not better than a master shot of the wreck from bow to stern. But that's just my opinion.

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#29 Nick Hope

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 07:47 PM

Do the canon D60 and t2i, have the same video quality, and capabilities as the 7D?

Yes, pretty much so, from what I understand. t2i is pretty small and light, if that's what you want. 7D is the most rugged and waterproof, with the most housings. But for me the 60D looks like a nice middle-ground and the articulated display is an absolute winner for topside video. Last time I looked there was only an Ikelite housing for it.

I'm thinking these 3 cropped-sensor models would be great for macro, where you have time to mess with settings and set up the shot. I suspect full frame like 5D mk2 is going to be too limiting with the depth of field. But I won't be buying any time soon, so I'm holding out for the 7D mk2 (with, I hope, articulated display). But by that time all these dSLR benefits will hopefully have been built into proper video cameras at a closer price point.

#30 wagsy

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 02:21 AM

I took mine up in Helicopter the other day...
All I can say is double check your sensor for dust before a flight
Shooting sunny wide bright blue sky and water brings out the tiniest of tiny specs.

Up again with it on a gyro next.

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#31 pmooney

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 02:32 AM

I took mine up in Helicopter the other day...
All I can say is double check your sensor for dust before a flight
Shooting sunny wide bright blue sky and water brings out the tiniest of tiny specs.

Up again with it on a gyro next.


Oops !

#32 wagsy

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 02:47 AM

:P

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#33 JohnnyQuest

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 05:25 AM

But by that time all these dSLR benefits will hopefully have been built into proper video cameras at a closer price point.



What about the new Canon XA10? Shouldn't that shoot better (or at least as good) video and offer much better control?

#34 SimonSpear

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 08:39 AM

But by that time all these dSLR benefits will hopefully have been built into proper video cameras at a closer price point.


That's what we're all waiting for! :island:

#35 Drew

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 12:30 PM

What about the new Canon XA10? Shouldn't that shoot better (or at least as good) video and offer much better control?


Depends on who you ask. XA10 sensor is 1/3" and AVCHD vs 40+mbps of the DSLR plus big sensor.

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#36 JohnnyQuest

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 01:34 PM

Depends on who you ask. XA10 sensor is 1/3" and AVCHD vs 40+mbps of the DSLR plus big sensor.



Ok, I'm quite confused. Why would Canon even bother with video cameras anymore if they can't compete with the video capabilities of their own DSLRs? Nikon, who doesn't have a camcorder line, is obviously interested in making a very-capable dual-function camera (D7000), but why doesn't Canon just give up and go that route too? Why spend the R&D money on a product (camcorder) that seems to be nearly dead? Why wouldn't they put a big chip in their camcorders? How can they sell a dedicated device that won't outperform the "side function" of their other device?

#37 DeanB

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 02:04 PM

Ok, I'm quite confused. Why would Canon even bother with video cameras anymore if they can't compete with the video capabilities of their own DSLRs? Nikon, who doesn't have a camcorder line, is obviously interested in making a very-capable dual-function camera (D7000), but why doesn't Canon just give up and go that route too? Why spend the R&D money on a product (camcorder) that seems to be nearly dead? Why wouldn't they put a big chip in their camcorders? How can they sell a dedicated device that won't outperform the "side function" of their other device?



Camcorders are not dead ... Its just the ViDslr shooters trying to justify their expensive purchases or stills shooters hoping to become videographers because of their disappointing skills in still imagery ... :island: ;)

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#38 Captain_Caveman

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 03:59 PM

Hi Andrea

Yes, everything was shot in full manual. When shooting video you can't change shutter speed (fixed at either 1/50 PAL or 1/60 NTSC) and you only have 2 usable settings for ISO (either 160 or 320) then all you have to adjust is aperture, so it is very easy to shoot in manual mode.

Cheers, Simon



Simon, those depth examples in the vid look great!


I'd disagree on the shutter speed, of course, you can change shutter speed, it's just good for aesthetics to keep the same look throughout, but nothing stopping you dropping the shutter speed from 1/60 down to 1/30 for instance.

I also shoot a lot at 2500, I even shoot at 6400 but you have to expect some noise especially in the blues.



Vid shot at 6400 ISO f/2.8 1/30s


Edited by Captain_Caveman, 26 January 2011 - 04:34 PM.


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#39 SimonSpear

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 04:35 AM

Camcorders are not dead ... Its just the ViDslr shooters trying to justify their expensive purchases or stills shooters hoping to become videographers because of their disappointing skills in still imagery ... :island: ;)

Dive safe

DeanB


LOL Dean you crack me up. :D

To answer JohnnyQuest's question though - dedicated camcorders are not dead and certainly will never be as long as I can see, unless someone eventually brings out a HDSLR with all of the benefits of a camcorders form factor and their other abilities. Almost any camcorder in existence you can just switch on and start filming with - you just can't do that with an HDSLR.

Cheers, Simon

#40 SimonSpear

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 04:47 AM

I'd disagree on the shutter speed, of course, you can change shutter speed, it's just good for aesthetics to keep the same look throughout, but nothing stopping you dropping the shutter speed from 1/60 down to 1/30 for instance.

I also shoot a lot at 2500, I even shoot at 6400 but you have to expect some noise especially in the blues.


Sure you can drop to 1/25 or 1/30 shutter speed, but you then have to expect to get quite a lot of motion blur as you'll never really get a sharp image at those speeds. Similarly you could jump to 1/100 or 1/120, but would be in danger then of getting a strobing effect on your footage. I've never shot anything I've been happy with above ISO 640 using WB and available light although admittedly it doesn't look the same kind of noise that I get on the clip you posted, so perhaps it works better with lights in a dark environment. I've found that bumping up the ISO while trying to shoot with WB/available light just doesn't work, but I'd love to see some examples where it does if you have them?

Cheers, Simon