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Underwater Colour Correction With The Sony AX100


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#1 Pete L

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 08:23 PM

Hi All,

 

Here is an article that I co-wrote with John Ellerbrock from Gates regarding the Sony AX100 and attaining an acceptable white balance from the AX100.

Hope you enjoy.

Cheers Pete.

 

 

 

http://www.gateshous...ny-AX100-R1.pdf


Edited by Pete L, 26 February 2016 - 08:25 PM.

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#2 bubffm

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 10:54 AM

Thanks Pete, very informative.

 

I am just back from a trip to Raja Ampat and shot a ton of footage with my AX100 (first time I used it underwater).  I played around with various modes, i.e. manual WB, automatic WB,  with red filter and without. I tried out standard settings and Soft Highkey mode.  

 

Over the next weeks I'll run all that stuff through post and show how it all plays up. I could not really evaluate results on location. To do this with 4k footage I really need my 5k iMac here at home ;-)  

 

I'll post some clips when I am ready, which may still take a bit of time....

 

bubffm 



#3 SwiftFF5

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 04:37 AM

Thanks, that is very helpful.   I am currently working with some footage shot with a Sony RX100 that I had to rent when my normal video camera battery decided to fail, and I did not have a spare along.  Some of it looks fine (especially when used with lights), some of it looks really good - and some looks really bad.  I am having real trouble doing color correction in post on some of it.  No matter what I've tried so far, I get these nasty magenta edges on everything, without actually correcting the overall color.  I'll try some of the tools that you mentioned in your article.  Thanks.


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#4 Pete L

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 09:35 AM

Looking forward to seeing your results BUB.

 

Swift, I think the same principles will apply to the RX100 as I have seen the same issues across many of the Sony Cameras.

Try some of the post workflows from the article and if you are stuck then post up screen grabs and I will see what I can do to help out.

 

Cheers Pete.


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#5 SwiftFF5

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 04:24 AM

Thanks Pete.  I probably won't get any time to play with it again until the weekend (or maybe later), but I'll post again after trying some of your ideas.  Thanks for the encouragement.


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#6 bubffm

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 02:13 PM

Looking forward to seeing your results BUB.

 

Cheers Pete.

 

I've put a few short clips out on youtube.  The "final" result will still take some time. it was fun using the AX100. I found it very comfortable to use and well balanced in the Gates housing. It's quite a capable camera, certainly much more so than the guy operating it....

 

 

Cheers

bubffm


Edited by bubffm, 14 March 2016 - 02:20 PM.


#7 wydeangle

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 04:24 AM

Pete,

 

Thanks!

 

I didn't get the magenta filter until after I returned, but think it may have helped - I'll try it next time.

 

Here's a minute (however bad) of what I did get - no filter, one-push and the red tape spot trick you suggested: https://youtu.be/EZPhf1wku3o

 

In the first clip my wife is trying to get the manatee to stay so she could back up - it was a bit too close to let her focus.

 

Tom


Edited by wydeangle, 15 March 2016 - 04:32 AM.


#8 Nick Hope

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 07:52 PM

Pete, what cameras are you using now? I thought you were using a GH4. Have you moved on to an AX100 or are you using both? Or...?



#9 Pete L

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 01:25 AM

Pete, what cameras are you using now? I thought you were using a GH4. Have you moved on to an AX100 or are you using both? Or...?

 

I sold the GH4 a long time ago Nick.
I am now with the AX100 and loving it.


Pete, what cameras are you using now? I thought you were using a GH4. Have you moved on to an AX100 or are you using both? Or...?


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#10 Etc

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 03:40 AM

Hi Pete. Do you mind to list me the pros and Cons in your change???. I bought the Pananonic because I didn't find much information about the AX100 WB performance, and my old Sony (HC9) was a piece of junk at this and I did't want to risk buying another Sony so far.

 



#11 bubffm

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 12:27 PM

Hi Pete. Do you mind to list me the pros and Cons in your change???. I bought the Pananonic because I didn't find much information about the AX100 WB performance, and my old Sony (HC9) was a piece of junk at this and I did't want to risk buying another Sony so far.

 

 

Sorry for chipping in here.  I just see you are coming from Spain. There is a fellow countryman auf yours who is shooting on the AX100 and has written a number of articles on it on his blog.  This article may be a good starting point. The English translation is google-translate at it's most dreadful - but in Spanish it reads ok :-)

 

In fact, he has somewhat influenced my decision to move to a AX100 / Gates setup a few months ago as well. 

 

bubffm


Edited by bubffm, 05 April 2016 - 12:28 PM.


#12 thetrickster

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 01:26 AM

I've spoken with Pete also in regards from moving from the GH4 to the AX100 - and I think I'll probably go down this route at some point too - but due to the AX100 being over 2yrs old - I'm going to wait for the next revision before investing any significant funds in a housing/camera.


Regards, Richard

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#13 Etc

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 03:43 AM

I've spoken with Pete also in regards from moving from the GH4 to the AX100 - and I think I'll probably go down this route at some point too - but due to the AX100 being over 2yrs old - I'm going to wait for the next revision before investing any significant funds in a housing/camera.

 

SonyX70 maybe?

 

And what about you?. Why would you take this route? No worries about WB issues sony seems to have?



#14 thetrickster

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 06:30 AM

Again the X70 has been out for a while, to be honest I won't buy anything released before 2016  (as the investigate is so high) so will wait for the next one.

 

As to why...

 

I've chased image quality and ergonomics with my GH4 as far as I can, different domes, lenses, external recorders etc etc and its just getting bigger and bigger - as now with the WWL-1 its so front heavy I'm having to get 2 additional (200x60mm) float arms on the top of the housing to counteract it. (this is on top of the 4 I have already for the keldan lights I have) I've tried the macro float ring, but its not enough. I do love the colours and quality I'm getting, but its not the 'compact' camera I had envisioned when I started out...

 

The Gates (from my understanding) are pretty neutral out of the box - so would only need buoyancy for the lights.

 

The camera itself probably isn't as good as the GH4 in pure IQ (going on the reviews online), but low light, ND filters, program mode that runs at 180' (not 360 as the GH4 does) - and again the ergonomics just makes it all a bit easier and more enjoyable to film. Admittedly I haven't tried the newer NA-GH4 housing (still using the GH3 housing) - so that might be better. I'm going to see what lies with the GH5 come September - got no rush, but would ideally prefer something more video orientated.


Regards, Richard

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#15 Etc

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 07:42 AM

Well. It seems we are having similar thoughts. I needed a compact equipment, and I'm afraid this thing is getting bigger and bigger... I'm not (and I wasn't before buying) very happy with the idea of shooting with a "non-dedicated" gear, but I couldn't find any desirable alternative (in terms of quality-size).

Regarding  your comment about the shutter speed in program mode, I didn't know this fact, but I never use any automatic mode at all, so I don't care much. Just once I filmed in shutter priority and I hated how the GH4 managed the aperture (abrupt and noticeable changes that you won't have in any camcorder).

Anyway, I'm also happy with the overall performance of my GH4, but I'm wide open to new coming options, as you are. So, please, keep me informed about your research if you don't mind.



#16 bubffm

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 09:38 AM

I looked at the x70 as well but housing options are very limited. With 4K 100mps coming very soon this could clearly be a strong option. On housing you only have sealux and little else though..

As to "age of the cam": I condidered this as well but then the latest isnt always the greatest and lets face it: Most of the more 'pro' camcorders reach full maturity only on Firmware upgrade 3.0 anyway.... which we now have on the AX100. Livecycles seem also to a bit longer on Camcorders than on consumer cams where the name of the game seems to be a new cam every 3 months.

And yes, the Gates housing is very well balanced. I only add one stix each side for the lights.

#17 thetrickster

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 10:09 AM

I agree that the latest isn't always the greatest and normally I wouldn't worry. But 2yrs+ is a long time in the camera world. Things move fast. How many A7 's and RX's have they released since 2014?

But as you have shown Pete, the initial bad reviews of the AX100 WB have been proved wrong (by you) with the right filter and camera setup. If there is no wiff of a AX100 replacement at NAB. I might reconsider




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#18 Pete L

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 11:59 PM

 

I've put a few short clips out on youtube.  The "final" result will still take some time. it was fun using the AX100. I found it very comfortable to use and well balanced in the Gates housing. It's quite a capable camera, certainly much more so than the guy operating it....

 

 

Cheers

bubffm

 

 

Bub, I could only get the middle video to play and looking at the colours, you are having the exact same issues as I have seen with white being a shade of green.
​You should be able to correct that within Resolve, fairly easily mate.


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#19 Pete L

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Posted 08 April 2016 - 12:05 AM

Pete,

 

Thanks!

 

I didn't get the magenta filter until after I returned, but think it may have helped - I'll try it next time.

 

Here's a minute (however bad) of what I did get - no filter, one-push and the red tape spot trick you suggested: https://youtu.be/EZPhf1wku3o

 

In the first clip my wife is trying to get the manatee to stay so she could back up - it was a bit too close to let her focus.

 

Tom

 

Tom, the beauty of the white slate with red stickers is that you can zoom in and out and that will adjust how much red is added to the image and will dramatically change the white balance.


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#20 Pete L

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Posted 08 April 2016 - 12:26 AM

I have used several DSLR type systems for video work, including 7D, 5D & GH4 and my biggest issue was always that I was never 100% confident that my footage was in focus and when someone is paying you to get the shot and you are always thinking in the back of your mind, I hope that is in focus, well it is not a good feeling.

 

I'm certainly not going to bash DSLR users as there are many members here that are getting great results from them.

For me though, having distance markers on the screen means I can lock my focus at 0.3 at full wide zoom and I know 100% of the time that the shot is in focus.

The other features I like of a video system are the ND filters, which I couldn't live without now, a zoom lens, the ability to manually focus and swap between manual and auto focus when needed, focus peaking (which I use mainly for macro work and like ND filters, peaking is a godsend for macro work), the ease of getting into the WB menu and having one push WB and decent auto focus.

 

The things I like specifically about the AX100 would be the image quality first and foremost, the larger sensor means I can finally pull focus underwater and help to separate subjects from backgrounds, the XAVC-s codec is fantastic for post work and the Gates Housing is well balanced, the main functions are well placed for easy access and the extra items like the top handle and tripod make it a great system to use.

 

I can't see myself going back to an SLR style setup to shoot video permanently.

The GH4 was a great camera and I see people adding all sorts of extra equipment onto it to make it "better" but the size is growing and so is the cost.

Price up the cost of an SLR system versus a video based system, in most cases it is cheaper to setup a video system and I certainly understand that not everybody wants to be locked into a video system and that is fine but for me, it is a dedicated video system all the way.

Whether that be Sony, Canon or whoever else comes along in the future.


Oh and by the way, my understanding is that Sony will not be releasing an updated version of the AX100 this year.
 


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