Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Air travel with Lithium Batteries in the USA


  • Please log in to reply
68 replies to this topic

#41 Ken Kurtis

Ken Kurtis

    Wolf Eel

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 101 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Beverly Hills, CA

Posted 02 January 2008 - 02:21 PM

Anton Bauer Dionic 160WH: over 8g
IDX Endura Elite 142WH: over 8g
Red Brick (Battery for RED One): 140WH: over 8g


Don't lose sight of the fact that these specific batteries would be considered "medium" batteries. You can bring TWO spare ones in your carry-on IN ADDITION TO ONE HOOKED UP IN THE CAMERA.

It's easy to forget two things:

1. Most of the batteries we use will NOT be affected at all.
2. Ones that are affected, you're still allowed two extra batteries.
3. Don't forget you can also have a battery in the camera/device, so really you can have THREE batteries for each device in your carry-on.

Even Arthur (the guy I talked to) agreed that they've done a pretty bad job of explaining things to the public and have probably made the situation worse.

- Ken

Edited by Ken Kurtis, 02 January 2008 - 02:30 PM.

Ken Kurtis
(Nikon D200 in an Ikelite housing w/dual YS-D1s & a GoPro Hero2 in a Backscatter housing w/dual Sola 1200s)
NAUI Instr. #5936 • Owner, Reef Seekers Dive Co. • Beverly Hills, CA
www.reefseekers.com


#42 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 02 January 2008 - 02:26 PM

Sure but each of these weigh over 1.2kg. Then we have to think about those cannister batteries using Li-Polymer and Li-Ion battery packs. Now they have to be packed proper and SHIPPED to location. Which really adds to cost.

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#43 cor

cor

    The Hacker

  • Admin
  • 1993 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, Netherlands

Posted 02 January 2008 - 02:28 PM

I just noticed a small detail in ken's excellent work that I did not know.

"Batteries 8-25 grams (100-300 watt-hours) - Limit two per passenger per device."

The original rules dont mention two per passenger per device, but two per passenger..period. That includes installed batteries..I quote:

Special Case: Up to 2 Lithium-Ion Batteries, Spare or Installed (between 8 and 25 grams aggregate lithium equivalent content)


Ken, can you confirm that it is two per device? I dont read it that way, and that would be a very positive change for the video guys.

Cor

ps: I have editted the original post (first post in this thread) to include Drew's extra battery info. Keep em coming.
Cor Bosman - Nikon D2X Subal ND2 - Nikon D7000 Subal ND7000
website | tripreports/journal | facebook | wetpixel map | twitter


#44 Ken Kurtis

Ken Kurtis

    Wolf Eel

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 101 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Beverly Hills, CA

Posted 02 January 2008 - 02:35 PM

Ken, can you confirm that it is two per device? I dont read it that way, and that would be a very positive change for the video guys.


I asked Arthur specifically about this. Arthur (the guy who wrote the regulation) said it was two batteries (plus one more installed in the unit) per device.

Now, I will agree when I first posed the question to him, he paused a bit. He thinking was that these batteries are so large and heavy, how many can one possibly carry? As he put it, "You'll get a hernia lugging too many of these around."

But his intepretation was two per person per device, not two period.

The real kicker will be to see whether the TSA understands any of this as Arthur does. I have a nightmare scenario of me being in the security line and the TSA person wanting to take all my batteries and my plaintive wail being, "But Arthur said this was OK!!!"

:-)

- Ken

Ken Kurtis
(Nikon D200 in an Ikelite housing w/dual YS-D1s & a GoPro Hero2 in a Backscatter housing w/dual Sola 1200s)
NAUI Instr. #5936 • Owner, Reef Seekers Dive Co. • Beverly Hills, CA
www.reefseekers.com


#45 cor

cor

    The Hacker

  • Admin
  • 1993 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, Netherlands

Posted 02 January 2008 - 02:51 PM

I would still be very careful. This specific point is very unclear in the rules, but if you combine the two parts where these 'medium' type batteries are explained, they seem to suggest two total per passenger. This will be where in practice people will end up in arguments with TSA unfortunately.

You can also bring up to two spare batteries with an aggregate equivalent lithium content of up to 25 grams, in addition to any batteries that fall below the 8-gram threshold. Examples of two types of lithium ion batteries with equivalent lithium content over 8 grams but below 25 are shown below.


Then, further on in the rules, it explains how you can carry these batteries:

“Special Case”
Up to 2 Lithium-Ion Batteries, Spare or Installed
(between 8 and 25 grams aggregate lithium equivalent content)


The kicker is the 'or installed'. Without those 2 words I would say the written rules would agree with his verbal explanation, but as it stands, they dont match. For now im going to leave the '2 total per person' in the first post until this is more certain. It would suck if we caused people to lose several hundreds of dollars worth of batteries. Err on the side of caution. But i'll add a note about this as well.

Cor

ps: added a summary to my original breakdown of the rules, so it is even more clear that almost no one is affected.
Cor Bosman - Nikon D2X Subal ND2 - Nikon D7000 Subal ND7000
website | tripreports/journal | facebook | wetpixel map | twitter


#46 cor

cor

    The Hacker

  • Admin
  • 1993 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, Netherlands

Posted 03 January 2008 - 03:25 PM

Great, our dutch national newspapers are also reporting that 'you can only take 2 lithium batteries now'. I sent in a letter to the editor, but i dont think anyone cares in the news world :P

Cor
Cor Bosman - Nikon D2X Subal ND2 - Nikon D7000 Subal ND7000
website | tripreports/journal | facebook | wetpixel map | twitter


#47 allen

allen

    Sting Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salt Lake City, USA
  • Interests:I spend most of my time alpine climbing, hiking, mtn. biking, or skiing. When I can get away it is to travel for climbing or diving. Been doing this nonsense for way too long to do anything different.

Posted 03 January 2008 - 04:00 PM

Great, our dutch national newspapers are also reporting that 'you can only take 2 lithium batteries now'. I sent in a letter to the editor, but i dont think anyone cares in the news world :P


I think you are right. I just talked to the AP office in Washington DC where this article came from and noted that I think they have a error. The woman said well we got this directly from DOT and was not really inclined to believe me that there was an error. I said well you might want to get a copy of the actual regs and perhaps double check what you were told. She said thanks and hung up. So I would not be hopeful that they will change anything. Though others might want to call as well (202-641-9000) for fun.

BTW How to do this is read the byline "WASHINGTON (AP)" which is the local office you want to call - I found their number via the website. Oh yeah, be sure to IMMEDIATELY identify yourself - they seem pretty snippy if you do not.

Edited by allen, 03 January 2008 - 04:00 PM.


#48 acroporas

acroporas

    Beach Bum

  • Critter Expert
  • 1776 posts
  • Location:Atlanta, Georgia

Posted 03 January 2008 - 05:39 PM

It appears that they've already changed the rules?

http://www.robgalbra...cid=7-9206-9211
William

Canon 5D Ikelite Housing and strobes
15FE | 24/2.8 | 35/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 150/2.8 macro

#49 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 03 January 2008 - 06:15 PM

William, that's the original rule... just worded for grade 3 and above :P

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#50 mandarinfish

mandarinfish

    Sting Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 281 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 03 January 2008 - 06:43 PM

William, that's the original rule... just worded for grade 3 and above :P


E.g. TSA... <_<

Very glad I wasn't trying to travel with lithium batteries the last couple of days!

Linda

#51 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 03 January 2008 - 07:49 PM

Linda, TSA gets the picture illustrated version :P

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#52 Alex_Mustard

Alex_Mustard

    The Doctor

  • Super Mod
  • 8376 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Peterborough

Posted 05 January 2008 - 03:12 AM

At least we are going back to two piece of handbaggage again - to carry all these lithiums!

We've got some great news: thanks to new guidelines from the UK Department for Transport, we're increasing our cabin bag allowance. As of 7 January 2008 you will be able to carry two pieces of hand baggage through security when departing or transferring from London Heathrow, London City, Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow or Manchester airports.

The British Airways hand baggage allowance is as follows:
One bag no bigger than 56 cm x 45 cm x 25 cm (22 inches x 17.5 inches x 9.85 inches) (including wheels, pockets and handles) • In addition, one briefcase or laptop sized bag


Alex

Alexander Mustard - www.amustard.com - www.magic-filters.com
Nikon D4 (Subal housing). Nikon D7100 (Subal housing). Olympus EPL-5 (Nauticam housing).


#53 cor

cor

    The Hacker

  • Admin
  • 1993 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, Netherlands

Posted 05 January 2008 - 03:30 AM

At least we are going back to two piece of handbaggage again - to carry all these lithiums!
Alex


Im traveling through heathrow on tuesday and got that message as well. I think im going to gamble it. The last two years or so Heathrow has been hell to go through, worse than any other place in the world.

What got my attention was the 'you can take a 23kg bag in carry-on as long as you can lift it in the overhead compartment'. WOW! 23kg. Thats as much as their checked limit!

Cor
Cor Bosman - Nikon D2X Subal ND2 - Nikon D7000 Subal ND7000
website | tripreports/journal | facebook | wetpixel map | twitter


#54 plsdiver4377

plsdiver4377

    Starfish

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 January 2008 - 01:53 PM

Spare Lithium Batteries Banned in Checked Luggage

Effective Jan. 1, 2008, customers traveling to, from or within the United States will no longer be able to carry spare lithium batteries in their checked bags.

Customers may bring spare lithium batteries for laptops, cell phones and cameras in their carry-on luggage. When bringing spare batteries in carry-on luggage it’s best to leave them in the original packaging. If packing loose batteries secure them with tape so that the ends of the batteries do not come into contact with each other and place each battery in separate plastic bags. The limit is two batteries per passenger.[i]

Customers may still place electronic items in checked luggage with the batteries still inside the devices.

Details and information on other prohibited items may also be found at SafeTravel.dot.gov.



The above is straight off the Continental Website. I guarantee they will be inforcing this one as wrong as it is.

Jim

#55 acroporas

acroporas

    Beach Bum

  • Critter Expert
  • 1776 posts
  • Location:Atlanta, Georgia

Posted 07 January 2008 - 02:23 PM

The airlines to not check luggage, TSA does. In less Continental is going to install their own baggage x-ray machines at the gate, they have no way to enforce it...
William

Canon 5D Ikelite Housing and strobes
15FE | 24/2.8 | 35/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 150/2.8 macro

#56 plsdiver4377

plsdiver4377

    Starfish

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 January 2008 - 02:47 PM

The airlines to not check luggage, TSA does. In less Continental is going to install their own baggage x-ray machines at the gate, they have no way to enforce it...


True enough, I just hope TSA reads better than the folks at Continental.

I need to use spell-check, when typing while working.

Jim

#57 cor

cor

    The Hacker

  • Admin
  • 1993 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, Netherlands

Posted 07 January 2008 - 09:59 PM

Im heading out to the US surrounded by a sea of lithium, so we'll see what happens :D

Cor
Cor Bosman - Nikon D2X Subal ND2 - Nikon D7000 Subal ND7000
website | tripreports/journal | facebook | wetpixel map | twitter


#58 Ken Kurtis

Ken Kurtis

    Wolf Eel

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 101 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Beverly Hills, CA

Posted 07 January 2008 - 11:24 PM

I got this e-mail late evening 1/7 from our of our divers who works for the TSA and who gave me permission to share it with you:

"Just wanted to give you and other diver's some inside info on TSA rules. I work for TSA and the Lithium Battery regulation came out this week. We were told to stand down on the situation and do NOT enforce the rule. You were right in the fact that it is a DOT rule not FAA or TSA. If anybody is still worried about there lithium batteries, it only applied to checked baggage and if you have them in the device it's no problem. If you have spare one's throw them in a plastic bag by themselves individually so it cannot make contact with metal. Anyway, just wanted to clarify that TSA would not be enforcing that rule."

Ken Kurtis
(Nikon D200 in an Ikelite housing w/dual YS-D1s & a GoPro Hero2 in a Backscatter housing w/dual Sola 1200s)
NAUI Instr. #5936 • Owner, Reef Seekers Dive Co. • Beverly Hills, CA
www.reefseekers.com


#59 Alex_Mustard

Alex_Mustard

    The Doctor

  • Super Mod
  • 8376 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Peterborough

Posted 08 January 2008 - 02:24 AM

I flew last night (Tuscany back to UK) - and in Europe there is no issue on lithium batteries yet.

I will be interested to hear what Cor experiences.

Alex

Alexander Mustard - www.amustard.com - www.magic-filters.com
Nikon D4 (Subal housing). Nikon D7100 (Subal housing). Olympus EPL-5 (Nauticam housing).


#60 cor

cor

    The Hacker

  • Admin
  • 1993 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, Netherlands

Posted 09 January 2008 - 04:46 AM

Im in Miami right now and the word battery was not mentioned anywhere. Im flying on a domestic flight inside the US tomorrow, but I dont expect any hassle really. No posters or notices anywhere in MIA. It seems like they're not enforcing this at all for now.

Cor
Cor Bosman - Nikon D2X Subal ND2 - Nikon D7000 Subal ND7000
website | tripreports/journal | facebook | wetpixel map | twitter