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#1 wileycam2000

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 11:24 AM

What Gopro lens filters for deeper underwater use are working the best? I can't seem to find one with high-quality glass.



#2 Interceptor121

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 11:25 AM

What does deeper underwater use mean? Filters only work down to 20 meters a bit more for some camera a bit less for a gopro?


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#3 A.Y.

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 08:52 AM

I recommend Flip Filters because they are easy to switch from no filter to Dive (6-15m, 20-50') to Deep (15+m, 50+'). I tried GoPro and Polar Pro filters and found putting them on and taking them off underwater to be a pain, and I had to bring a filter pouch.

 

GoPro 7 Black takes RAW photos, which makes color adjustment easy.

 



#4 Interceptor121

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 08:54 AM

There is 2% red at 20 meters raw will still have blue pictures


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#5 A.Y.

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 09:20 AM

This video show Flip Filter performance at 27m, 89' with or without filters, and with or without lights. These tests were done with the 2012 Hero 3, 2018 Hero 7 Black has much improved underwater WB.

 

My 2013 Hero 3+ Black with UW filters also produced similar magenta cast shown in this video; however, my 2018 Hero 7 Black delivers better colors.

 


Edited by A.Y., 14 May 2019 - 09:45 AM.


#6 Interceptor121

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 09:31 AM

This video show Flip Filter performance at 27m, 89' with or without filters, and with or without lights. The tests were done with the much older Hero 3. Hero 7 Black has much improved underwater color WB. My own experiences with Flip Filters are similar.
 

It looks ugly and purple at 89’ feet
The filter called dive filter is the one looking better even at depth
The ‘deep’ filter has a strong magenta/purple cast


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Edited by Interceptor121, 14 May 2019 - 09:45 AM.

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#7 A.Y.

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 04:31 PM

fcpx-cc.jpg

 

Magenta cast = a little more red than needed, also = Flip Deep filter will work at deeper depth than 27m, 89'. The magenta cast is SUPER EASY to correct in still and video! This image shows adjusting 2013 Hero 3+ Black video with FCPX!


Edited by A.Y., 14 May 2019 - 04:37 PM.


#8 Interceptor121

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 07:28 PM

fcpx-cc.jpg
 
Magenta cast = a little more red than needed, also = Flip Deep filter will work at deeper depth than 27m, 89'. The magenta cast is SUPER EASY to correct in still and video! This image shows adjusting 2013 Hero 3+ Black video with FCPX!


If that makes you happy hurray


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#9 A.Y.

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 10:02 AM

To those who are new to using UW filters with GoPro cameras, expect a filter rated 6-15m (20-50') to produce images a little red at 6m (20') and a little blue at 15m (50'). That's how filters and physics work! For deeper dives, it's a good idea to use lights!

 

Speaking from personal experience, the 2018 Hero 7 Black with Flip Filters will produce better colors than what you see in the 2013 YouTube videos. I simply was unable to find a more recent example. Also, 7 Black RAW greatly enhances its abilities to take stills underwater.


Edited by A.Y., 15 May 2019 - 10:23 AM.


#10 Interceptor121

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:42 PM

To those who are new to using UW filters with GoPro cameras, expect a filter rated 6-15m (20-50') to produce images a little red at 6m (20') and a little blue at 15m (50'). That's how filters and physics work! For deeper dives, it's a good idea to use lights!
 
Speaking from personal experience, the 2018 Hero 7 Black with Flip Filters will produce better colors than what you see in the 2013 YouTube videos. I simply was unable to find a more recent example. Also, 7 Black RAW greatly enhances its abilities to take stills underwater.


Whilst filter may be rated to a depth there isn’t such a concept of filter depth.
To put it simple take a red cc 60 filter that most likely is what your flip ‘dive’ filter is. This filter has transmission of 38% so takes 1.4 stops of light off your camera. If the scene is sufficiently bright like your bonaire example the other colours get cut off and the residual red is enhanced
Next there is a cc 90 filter that is more red and takes 1.7 stops or you can go all the way to a -2 stop red
No matter what you do the filter takes away the ambient light and restores the residual red if there is any
Typically past 20 meters there is no red left to restore but there may be residual orange left so if you get a very bright scene like your bonaire example the filter will work with what is left and produce unnatural colours as there is no red left to restore. You get purple in the mix that doesn’t belong there when you then process it in post it looks clearly weird although some colours are there they are not the same as if you were using lights
This is not specific to gopro is the same for any sensor past 20 meters you need lights and if you dive in darker waters you will need it maybe at 15 or 12 meters
So saying that a filter will work to 15 meters in absolute terms helps the person that doesn’t know how things work but is factually incorrect
You go to 18 meters in Bonaire and maybe you get some ok results with the so called deep filter you go and use this in the Mediterranean or in North Carolina and you just get a dark scene full of noise that looks weird
Also looking at the backscatter dive and deep I am pretty sure there is no material difference between the two and if your water is blue green you may get better results with the deep filter even at shallower depths

The above is totally unrelated to gopro protune or any software or hardware is just physics



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#11 A.Y.

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 12:40 AM

Underwater light study done by University of Hawaii clearly stated that the RED SPECTRUMS are capable of reaching 40-meter depth in tropical water even though reds starts to appear dark at 20 meters, which is totally consistence with the fact that we can see with our own eyes in the 2013 Flip Filter video, some reds can be recovered at 27 meters (89 feet) by the 2012 GoPro Hero 3 with Dive and Deep filters even though the reds appear dark without filter.

 

Photo and video editing software are all capable of restoring the recovered colors to how they should appear if the person knows how to use the software.


Edited by A.Y., 19 May 2019 - 01:11 AM.


#12 Interceptor121

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 02:30 AM

There is a significant difference between a graph plotted with a spectrometer or similar device and what a camera can do
You can see it yourself that at 20 meters the overall light has dropped around two stops and that blue is 5x times red. So there are at least two stops between blue and red and another two from the surface
In practical terms say that at the surface your camera was able to see all those colours and now you go into a dark room where the light is four stops or 12.5% the normal conditions your camera depending on the size and quality of the sensory will start dropping tones.
Typically a full frame slr would still resolve 8 bits, a micro four third around 7 a large sensor compact 6 bits
The gopro has a 1/2.3” sensor so there will be even less tones
It doesn’t matter what software you use the camera will not capture a sufficient amount of information to render the color with accuracy the color rendering will drop and your image will look like the light of a very cheap led when all turns a bit green or purple

People that have larger sensor cameras would not shoot a filter at 27 meters obviously you can if you wish but then don’t expect miracles from the tiny sensor of a gopro


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#13 A.Y.

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 08:19 PM

 

Found this newer Flip Filter example! The magenta hue from the Deep filter can be easily corrected, shown below:

 

flip-cc.jpg

 

GoPro + UW filter + color adjustment = results shown here at 31m (101')! Shooting RAW will get better performance for photos!

GoPro users are smart enough to understand UW color dynamic and capable of making decisions whether this is good enough for them or not!


Edited by A.Y., 21 May 2019 - 08:28 PM.

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#14 Interceptor121

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 11:26 PM


 
Found this newer Flip Filter example! The magenta hue from the Deep filter can be easily corrected, shown below:
 
flip-cc.jpg
 
GoPro + UW filter + color adjustment = results shown here at 31m (101')! Shooting RAW will get better performance for photos!

GoPro users are smart enough to understand UW color dynamic and capable of making decisions whether this is good enough for them or not!

Are you on a commission scheme from backscatter? You may be lucky and live in Bonaire and dive that spot everyday but majority of users will see a very different scene at 100 feet.
Extrapolating a single ideal example to sell a product for general use is not a good practice and frankly misleading
And no majority of people do not makes smart decisions especially using a device that does not even provide an exposure meter is almost impossible to take good decisions even in water and that is why the larger part of the clips at those depth look poor just with a filter but obviously this is not what those who sell you the item will tell you

If you see what magic filters or keldan tell you you get the real view while the gopro market aimed at leas experienced users is more a wild west


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#15 A.Y.

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 12:05 AM

Are you on a commission scheme from backscatter? You may be lucky and live in Bonaire and dive that spot everyday but majority of users will see a very different scene at 100 feet.
Extrapolating a single ideal example to sell a product for general use is not a good practice and frankly misleading
And no majority of people do not makes smart decisions especially using a device that does not even provide an exposure meter is almost impossible to take good decisions even in water and that is why the larger part of the clips at those depth look poor just with a filter but obviously this is not what those who sell you the item will tell you

If you see what magic filters or keldan tell you you get the real view while the gopro market aimed at leas experienced users is more a wild west


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Extremely insulting! I'm reporting this to the moderator! Trying to help a fellow GoPro user now have to endure this type of behavior on this forum!



#16 adamhanlon

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 01:33 AM

Hi all,

 

Can we try and keep this on track please? 

 

Perhaps it is worth revisiting what filters actually do...

 

Filters are reductive. No filter can "add" red to the visible spectrum. What they actually do is reduce the amount of blue (or green) to shift the spectrum towards the "red" end. This has the effect of helping to balance the colors in any images or footage, by removing the dominant color cast.

 

Post processing suffers from the same problem. Whilst it is possible to move the spectrum (in either direction), this is a global shift that will result in a loss of hue/saturation from whichever end we move it from.  While local color correction is possible, it is very hard to achieve an overall balanced look when doing so.

 

RAW capture will only capture what is there...if there is little or no red, there will be no red color information in the RAW data. Hence when color correcting RAW imagery by moving spectrums, you are effectively extrapolating and expanding from the existing data, not correcting!

 

Whether color correction at any depth is visually pleasing or not is in the eye of the beholder!

 

The marketing examples shown above illustrate this perfectly. None of the deeper (filtered) footage shows any red tones, but does show less blue. Bear in mind that the footage was captured in very clear water too...

 

The Hawaii University article quoted is not a scientific paper as such. It does state "red fish appear nearly black at 20 m" emphasizing that for all practical purposes, red light is no longer available at that depth. Testing with an underwater spectrometer actually suggest that in clear water, there is little or no red much past 17 or so meters. Again the marketing videos illustrate this quite clearly.

 

To return to the OP's original question though...

 

What Gopro lens filters for deeper underwater use are working the best? I can't seem to find one with high-quality glass.

 

1. How deep do you want to use the filters at? 

2. Why do you think glass filters are high quality? Optically, the issues with shooting through water are much "worse" than any that a filter will introduce. Most acrylic filters are of a very high optical quality!

 

Adam


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#17 thetrickster

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 03:31 AM

What Gopro lens filters for deeper underwater use are working the best? I can't seem to find one with high-quality glass.


Backscatter Flip System if you are just starting out.

On my last trip where I couldn’t take my GH5, I quickly picked up a Hero7 and the Backscatter Flip system the week before.

The build quality of the flip system is very good and the filters (I think I got the dual flip one) did the job at shallower depths - I was pleased with the colours it produced. No need for glass filters.

However I would recommend sticking with no filter (so you aren’t subtracting any light) and even adding a couple of good video lights for deeper (sub 20m) dives


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