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Which Mirrorless Camera for 4k Video (Macro/Wide)


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#21 TaxiDiver14

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 05:09 AM

Just wondering what un need the system for ???.

#22 skating101

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 06:35 AM

 

I thought the GX9 was the successor to the GX85 (in the convoluted naming Panasonic is doing these day...) and from my looking (hence the mention), the price is only £110 more (£589 vs £699). However it does look like the GX85 and GX9 are very similarly spec'd - which I was surprised about, given the gap in release dates. So a knocked down GX85 and housing would be a good bet, if MWB is important to you.

Thanks Richard, yea the price difference is $500 here so its a lot for such similarly specced cameras.



#23 skating101

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 06:38 AM

Just wondering what un need the system for ???.

Mostly for wide angle and macro/super macro video. 



#24 TaxiDiver14

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 07:37 AM

What are you using now ??

#25 ChrisRoss

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 09:43 AM

Particularly in Australia it seems like a stretch to get a system like you desire for $3K, unless you happen to find what you are after second hand, particularly if you want wide angle which is going to require a dome.  If you are looking for a macro lens then I've seen a good review for the panasonic 30mm gets and is half the price of the 45mm.  I would suggest keeping an eye on the classifieds here and scuaboard and also the facebook group, buy and sell scuba gear online (Australia).  If you are shopping new, list prices for an Ikelite housing, GX85 and Pany 30mm macro are $A3190 and you still need to buy a port. 

 

An Ikelite housing will keep your costs down, but the Nauticams are so much nicer to use, A vacuum system will help protect your ivestment, though you can add one to am Ikelite housing if it has a spare port.

 

For example there is currently a GH4 for sale on wetpixel classifieds, asking price for Nauticam housing, camera, 8mm fisheye and dome is $US2500, selling them separately.  And a user Xandernwater is selling a GH4/nauticam housing lenses, ports out of Perth, prices seem a touch optimistic, but make an offer.....

 

I've been told going price for second hand housings etc in Australia is 50-60% of new retail, looks up the Oz prices and make an offer based on that.



#26 skating101

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 03:10 PM

What are you using now ??

 

My previous setup was a Canon T3i with an Ikelite housing with 100mm L for macro and Tokina 10-17mm for wide angle.

 

 

Particularly in Australia it seems like a stretch to get a system like you desire for $3K, unless you happen to find what you are after second hand, particularly if you want wide angle which is going to require a dome.  If you are looking for a macro lens then I've seen a good review for the panasonic 30mm gets and is half the price of the 45mm.  I would suggest keeping an eye on the classifieds here and scuaboard and also the facebook group, buy and sell scuba gear online (Australia).  If you are shopping new, list prices for an Ikelite housing, GX85 and Pany 30mm macro are $A3190 and you still need to buy a port. 

 

An Ikelite housing will keep your costs down, but the Nauticams are so much nicer to use, A vacuum system will help protect your ivestment, though you can add one to am Ikelite housing if it has a spare port.

 

For example there is currently a GH4 for sale on wetpixel classifieds, asking price for Nauticam housing, camera, 8mm fisheye and dome is $US2500, selling them separately.  And a user Xandernwater is selling a GH4/nauticam housing lenses, ports out of Perth, prices seem a touch optimistic, but make an offer.....

 

I've been told going price for second hand housings etc in Australia is 50-60% of new retail, looks up the Oz prices and make an offer based on that.

Thanks for the reply, I haven't updated my location i'm not actually in Australia and ill be purchasing the items in US$. My intention is to purchase a system (camera + housing + macro) for $3000 then upgrade later. The second hand GH4s do look good however i'm still trying to understand what peoples opinion is of a second hand GH4 (and housing) vs a brand new GX85.



#27 ChrisRoss

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 04:31 PM

Buying is USA with $US makes a difference.  You could get a new Nauticam housing, GX85, Oly 12-50 lens and 4 " semi dome port for around $3K.  The 4" semi dome has an option to add a diopter macro lens.  So you could start off with semi- wide through to macro capable straight away.  If you went macro to start and without wide angle it'd be even cheaper with the M45macro port and Panasonic 30mm f2.8 macro.

 

Just be aware that the M43 macro lenses are really AF only , the MF option turns so slowly you need multiple turns of the focus ring to even notice a change in focus.  This may be a consideration with video much more so than stills.

 

The prices for the second hand GH-4s do look good though, often on the high end bodies AF is much better



#28 skating101

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 05:17 PM

Buying is USA with $US makes a difference.  You could get a new Nauticam housing, GX85, Oly 12-50 lens and 4 " semi dome port for around $3K.  The 4" semi dome has an option to add a diopter macro lens.  So you could start off with semi- wide through to macro capable straight away.  If you went macro to start and without wide angle it'd be even cheaper with the M45macro port and Panasonic 30mm f2.8 macro.

 

Just be aware that the M43 macro lenses are really AF only , the MF option turns so slowly you need multiple turns of the focus ring to even notice a change in focus.  This may be a consideration with video much more so than stills.

 

The prices for the second hand GH-4s do look good though, often on the high end bodies AF is much better

 

Thanks! I really like the Olympus 12-50mm lens! How would the quality of the 12-50mm macro (with/without a wet diopter) differ from the quality of a dedicated 45mm or 60mm macro? I would generally avoid the 30mm macro due to the extreme working distances. I saw your post on the issues with the 60mm macro manual focusing (http://wetpixel.com/...showtopic=59644). The only downside to the Olympus 12-50mm is the lack of image stabilization so it negates the excellent 5 axis image stabilization of the GX85. I have a tripod but am not keen to have to use it on every shot above 30mm.



#29 ChrisRoss

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 08:52 PM

My understanding is the lens is OK, not stellar, photozone.de has tested it and the60mm.  macro so you can compare qualities.  I not sure what you mean by negates the 5-axis stabilization, my understanding is this works with any lens attached.  I know my Olympus does stabilization with a manual focus lens attached via adapter and allows you to provide the focal length to optimize the stabilizer. 

 

I was looking into this lens for a friend who was interested in my EM-5II housing, apparently it has some odd features including Nauticam only producing a gear for the special flat port, that allows use of the macro switch and the e-zoom feature.  but I did find and after market zoom gear for it.  My thought was the dome port would allow wide angle shots and they have the 25105 flip diopter for the 36137 port, so the wide angle would be really 24mm equivalent and sharper and you could flip in the diopter for closeups, which would be closer than what the macro switch would provide.  I don't have any experience, but the combination seems like it should be more useful than the flat port. 

 

If you weren't budget limited I'd be suggesting the 12-40mm Oly with Zen 170mm dome and a macro lens in the dedicated port.  Given your budget it seems like the 12-50 in the semi dome with the flip adapter would be great.  

 

BTW for some reason the Oly 12-50 is way cheaper is Australia, Digidirect are selling $A257 on their website while BHPhoto are asking $US499.  I had to check 3 times to confirm.....



#30 skating101

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 09:36 PM

My understanding is the lens is OK, not stellar, photozone.de has tested it and the60mm.  macro so you can compare qualities.  I not sure what you mean by negates the 5-axis stabilization, my understanding is this works with any lens attached.  I know my Olympus does stabilization with a manual focus lens attached via adapter and allows you to provide the focal length to optimize the stabilizer. 

 

I was looking into this lens for a friend who was interested in my EM-5II housing, apparently it has some odd features including Nauticam only producing a gear for the special flat port, that allows use of the macro switch and the e-zoom feature.  but I did find and after market zoom gear for it.  My thought was the dome port would allow wide angle shots and they have the 25105 flip diopter for the 36137 port, so the wide angle would be really 24mm equivalent and sharper and you could flip in the diopter for closeups, which would be closer than what the macro switch would provide.  I don't have any experience, but the combination seems like it should be more useful than the flat port. 

 

If you weren't budget limited I'd be suggesting the 12-40mm Oly with Zen 170mm dome and a macro lens in the dedicated port.  Given your budget it seems like the 12-50 in the semi dome with the flip adapter would be great.  

 

BTW for some reason the Oly 12-50 is way cheaper is Australia, Digidirect are selling $A257 on their website while BHPhoto are asking $US499.  I had to check 3 times to confirm.....

Sorry you are correct, the 5 axis stabilization does works with any lens however the stabilization is significantly better when used with Panasonic O.I.S. capable lenses in dual I.S. mode especially at higher focal lengths. 

https://youtu.be/ChPan4CbWgM?t=278

I'm steering away from the Nauticam housing as I can get an Ikelite housing with both a dome and a flat port. The dome for the 12-50mm in wide and the flat port for the 12-50mm in macro and for a future dedicated macro lens. This price setup is cheaper than the Nauticam with the adapter.

You are correct for some reason the Olympus 12-50mm is more expensive on BHPhoto.

Thanks again for all your advice.



#31 Pajjpen

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 07:21 AM

Op. I saw someone recommend buying from the us but don’t forget to take into account the 30 something % import tax.
As far as cameras goes I have sent u a pm.

#32 bvanant

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 04:45 PM

I think the recommendation for either the 30 or 45 macro for super macro is probably a stretch for micro 4/3. Neither plays particularly well with add on diopters; for that the 60 macro is the best thing I think. But only $3K for camera, lenses, housing, ports, and lights is going to be very tough unless you find someone wanting to get a rid of a used system for cheap. I would also probably stay away from the Meikon type housings, not much room for growing that type of system.

 

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#33 skating101

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 08:32 PM

Op. I saw someone recommend buying from the us but don’t forget to take into account the 30 something % import tax.
As far as cameras goes I have sent u a pm.

 

The country I am in does not have a 30% import tax. Thanks for the PM I will reply with an answer.

 

 

I think the recommendation for either the 30 or 45 macro for super macro is probably a stretch for micro 4/3. Neither plays particularly well with add on diopters; for that the 60 macro is the best thing I think. But only $3K for camera, lenses, housing, ports, and lights is going to be very tough unless you find someone wanting to get a rid of a used system for cheap. I would also probably stay away from the Meikon type housings, not much room for growing that type of system.

 

Bill

 

I think I am going to adjust my budget to just a camera, housing and ports to stay within the $3k budget with the intention of purchasing a macro/lighting setup later. 

I am considering using a Panasonic 25mm 1.7 as a general fish portrait lens, does anyone have experience/opinions of using this lens?

 

Thanks for the replies guys your opinions are appreciated.

 



#34 Davide DB

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 08:20 AM

A used GH4 setup is the best choice.

 

You can always reuse lens and ports later.


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#35 bubffm

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 02:11 PM

I am considering using a Panasonic 25mm 1.7 as a general fish portrait lens, does anyone have experience/opinions of using this lens?

Fantastic lens, but underwater 25mm is just not wide enough. If you wanna go prime, then the Pana 12mm 1.4 is great. Or for more versatility either a WA Zoom (7-14 or 8-18) or the 12-35, which I like a lot as well.

Edited by bubffm, 28 February 2018 - 02:12 PM.


#36 skating101

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 04:48 PM

Fantastic lens, but underwater 25mm is just not wide enough. If you wanna go prime, then the Pana 12mm 1.4 is great. Or for more versatility either a WA Zoom (7-14 or 8-18) or the 12-35, which I like a lot as well.

 

I intend to purchase the Panasonic 8mm later to use as the wide angle lens. The 7-14 and the 8-18 are not wide enough, I've reviewed a lot of photos and videos and the 8mm looks much better (in my opinion). The intended lens setup eventually is:

 

Panasonic 8mm
Panasonic 25mm
Olympus 60mm



#37 ChrisRoss

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 04:57 PM

I don't have direct experience but I would tend to disagree, the 12mm f1.4 could fill the frame with 170mm long fish, 20 cm from the sensor or right on the dome, it would work for large fish but not so well for smaller ones.  Similarly the 25mm  would fill the frame with a 120mm long fish 25cm from the subject.   I think the 25mm f1.7 would be very close in performance to the Panasonic 30mm macro which would have greater utility with close focus, a review of that lens is here. http://www.reefwreck...lens-underwater     I just bought a port to use with the 30mm so will get to try it out soon. 


Edited by ChrisRoss, 28 February 2018 - 05:04 PM.


#38 skating101

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 06:39 PM

I don't have direct experience but I would tend to disagree, the 12mm f1.4 could fill the frame with 170mm long fish, 20 cm from the sensor or right on the dome, it would work for large fish but not so well for smaller ones.  Similarly the 25mm  would fill the frame with a 120mm long fish 25cm from the subject.   I think the 25mm f1.7 would be very close in performance to the Panasonic 30mm macro which would have greater utility with close focus, a review of that lens is here. http://www.reefwreck...lens-underwater     I just bought a port to use with the 30mm so will get to try it out soon. 

That's the reason why I opted for the 25mm instead of the 30mm macro, the 1:1 magnification seems redundant if your working distance to achieve 1:1 is almost zero. 



#39 ChrisRoss

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 08:36 PM

Yeah but you use the 60mm for 1:1, the 30mm would get you 1:4 to 1:2 (0.25x - 0.5x) range while the 25mm only achieves 0.14x, which is the reason I'm going to try it out.



#40 bvanant

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 11:57 AM

I think that trying to use the 12-50 as a do it all lens is not very useful. It is quite slow and its macro utility is not terribly good. I like the 30 mm a lot in spite of its short working distance, it is small and light and focuses faster than the Panasonic 45 (but then I think every lens will do that). To the OP, why not look at dedicated video cameras.  They do autofocus far better than any u4/3 system and can easily do wide angle and macro on the same dive. Still $3K is pretty low budget but you might get it done. 

Bill


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