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RETRA Strobe Thread


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#81 Gemma Dry

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:54 AM

While it is true that Retra are sending an additional 480 Euros, we are actually not gaining anything in this transaction as it is made to sound.

The devil's in the detail you see.

That 480 Euros is split between 3 people, has to be accepted back into Rand and has been sent via Paypal.

In South Africa you can only withdraw from Paypal into one specific bank who take their cut, Paypal take their cut and to add insult to injury the exchange rate offered by First National Bank is always bad.

At the end of the day we are still out of pocket after waiting months, and having multiple failed delivery promises.... so in no way are any of us benefitting from this.  Frankly it is the least they should do.

 

I would also like to make very clear that in no way has Allen mislead me at all with regard to delivery dates.

It is actually the direct conversations I have had with Oskar that have been in my opinion deliberately misleading.

For example this..

"All preorders will be shipping at the end of August and most of them should also be delivered until the end of August as they are shipped with DHL Express"   Allen didn't tell me that, it came from your own mouth.

 

At the end of September when I had received nothing and heard nothing I contacted you again, and got told I should have subscribed to your newsletter.

 

I then contacted Allen as he had been away as we have been told by Retra it was going to be June, then July, then August and now it was the end of September and really nothing seemed to be happening apart from the same repeated statements that shipping would be happening in the next 2 weeks etc.

 

I think quite understandably all 3 of us are quite upset at the way Retra have handled this situation.

The accusation of bullying is simply outrageous.  A customer expressing their dissatisfaction does not amount to bullying!

Maybe some people have the luxury of being able to spend out a lot of money, and just receive back empty promises for months on end, but in South Africa these are expensive items.  A luxury product if you like, and so I do think we are perfectly within our rights to be upset.

Allen wrote you a perfectly reasonable e mail which he has posted on the thread above, to which you sent back a link to Wetpixel and a comment about the agony of strobe making.

 

Allen still wants his strobes, and personally I think you should honour your promise to him.

Personally I have no interest anymore in dealing with a company that sends me an e mail like this in response to a genuine customer complaint.

"We will not be sending your our products, you’ve gotten your money back and more. Go somewhere else where you’ll get the professional treatment you talk about.

 
It’s over.

Oskar Zupancic"
 
 


#82 balexandrescu

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:40 AM

I was wondering what the approximate shipping date would be if one were to place an order today. Thanks so much.
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#83 Oskar@RetraUWT

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:53 AM

I was wondering what the approximate shipping date would be if one were to place an order today. Thanks so much.
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Hi Bogdan, thank you for your message. 

 

We are shipping now and the majority of pre-orders should be leaving in the next 3 weeks.

An estimated delivery date if you ordered now would be 4-5 weeks.

 

Thanks


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#84 guyharrisonphoto

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:12 PM

Oskar, how do I get the newsletter?  Couldn'd find a link on the Retra site.



#85 Oskar@RetraUWT

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:38 PM

Hi Guy, you can subscribe on the bottom of our homepage: https://www.retra-uwt.com

Thanks

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#86 Stefan Ekman

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:46 PM

 

While it is true that Retra are sending an additional 480 Euros, we are actually not gaining anything in this transaction as it is made to sound.

The devil's in the detail you see.

That 480 Euros is split between 3 people, has to be accepted back into Rand and has been sent via Paypal.

In South Africa you can only withdraw from Paypal into one specific bank who take their cut, Paypal take their cut and to add insult to injury the exchange rate offered by First National Bank is always bad.

At the end of the day we are still out of pocket after waiting months, and having multiple failed delivery promises.... so in no way are any of us benefitting from this.  Frankly it is the least they should do.

 

I would also like to make very clear that in no way has Allen mislead me at all with regard to delivery dates.

It is actually the direct conversations I have had with Oskar that have been in my opinion deliberately misleading.

For example this..

"All preorders will be shipping at the end of August and most of them should also be delivered until the end of August as they are shipped with DHL Express"   Allen didn't tell me that, it came from your own mouth.

 

At the end of September when I had received nothing and heard nothing I contacted you again, and got told I should have subscribed to your newsletter.

 

I then contacted Allen as he had been away as we have been told by Retra it was going to be June, then July, then August and now it was the end of September and really nothing seemed to be happening apart from the same repeated statements that shipping would be happening in the next 2 weeks etc.

 

I think quite understandably all 3 of us are quite upset at the way Retra have handled this situation.

The accusation of bullying is simply outrageous.  A customer expressing their dissatisfaction does not amount to bullying!

Maybe some people have the luxury of being able to spend out a lot of money, and just receive back empty promises for months on end, but in South Africa these are expensive items.  A luxury product if you like, and so I do think we are perfectly within our rights to be upset.

Allen wrote you a perfectly reasonable e mail which he has posted on the thread above, to which you sent back a link to Wetpixel and a comment about the agony of strobe making.

 

Allen still wants his strobes, and personally I think you should honour your promise to him.

Personally I have no interest anymore in dealing with a company that sends me an e mail like this in response to a genuine customer complaint.

"We will not be sending your our products, you’ve gotten your money back and more. Go somewhere else where you’ll get the professional treatment you talk about.

 
It’s over.

Oskar Zupancic"
 
 

 

 

As I understand it:

1. You ordered the strobes early and got the big discount. This was when the strobes were being developed and long before production would start

2. You booked a trip before shipment had started based on the dates provided. Dates that had been moved a couple of times. Courageous, but perhaps not so smart.

3. The dates slips again and you continue sending mail with complaints. This is in a situation were the guys at Retra is probably working 12-15 hour days dealing with all the minutiae of getting the stuff manufactured, tested and delivered. Hardly productive.

4. Retra don't see any way of deliver to your expectations, so the best from their point of view is to terminate the deal.

 

I can understand that you are frustrated, but so are the Retra guys. They are trying to deliver, but there are thousand of small and big things to fix and get the product delivered. They are not trying to screw with you. So while the information could be better (communication is the hardest of all tasks), I see no indication that they are not doing their best to deliver. You complaining about it does not change the delivery date.

 

What are you trying to achieve with all this? What is the goal? If you still want the strobes, you are not making a very good case for yourselves. 

 

Have look at notalwaysright.com


Edited by Stefan Ekman, 12 October 2017 - 12:50 PM.

Stefan


#87 Gemma Dry

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:39 PM

Stefan, it was not continuous e mails as you state. We sent one each.... which after months of being fobbed off I think is allowed.

Retra have definitely alienated me for sure... who am I, nobody in the greater scheme of things. Just a newcomer finding her feet.  Allen and Barry, well personally if I were them I would have looked after those two a bit better from a potential business point of view.

We didn't harass.  All we did was ask When will it actually be delivered..... and month after month we were essentially lied to.

I would rather have been told in Feb that delivery would be Oct/Nov   that would have been fine.

Also the customer relations side has been shocking!

 

We are not trying to achieve anything!

I have told Oskar I accept the refund... I honestly don't want to deal with a company that treats its customers like this (we were pretty much the first investors btw)

Allen wants the strobes still...so I am fully supporting him that they should supply them.

I don't want them!

Imagine if something went wrong and you had a customer complaint or they need a repair!  If they treat that how they have dealt with the orders Hell no!

I am sure they are great, and everyone will love them when they get them. I just am not prepared to be treated in this manner.

 

Gemma Dry


Edited by Gemma Dry, 12 October 2017 - 01:41 PM.


#88 guyharrisonphoto

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 07:20 AM

It looks like Oskar's tone might have been blunt, but his actions showed integrity.  A full refund, and Retra paying for the risk of currency fluctuations seems, to me, the best resolution anyone could hope for.  

 

I think it is unfortunate that you as customers were alienated.  I know that, several times since February, I either posted here or on Retra's facebook page about updates to delivery dates, and the responses were always fast and honest and not at all hostile despite my occasional prodding..

 

While I wanted them earlier, I knew I was financing a start-up venture in a niche industry with a niche product.  I fully expected that time frames might slip (and it seems some of the slippage was due to making some significant improvements to the flashes).

 

I would never have dreamed of planning an important trip or photo shoot on the arrival of these flashes.  When one of my existing flashes died, I just soldiered on with one  and if needed I would have bought a used replacement.

 

Certainly, if I were a dive professional, I would not have made services to my customers contingent on a product whose production I had no control over.

 

I don't see any reason from how Retra acted to doubt their customer service.  Of course, I know that if a flash breaks service will be a long process (shipping to Europe and back, etc).  I, like all of us early adopters, are taking the chance that the strobes will be reliable and bulletproof and not need service.



#89 Footloose_za

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 12:24 AM

Hi - I have been in the dive industry a long time and in production and know the problems. I pre-ordered the Retra Flash along with Allen Walker and Gemma. We understood the position of a new company starting up.

 

 

My concerns were raised when we did not get any delivery after receiving written confirmation from Oska that they were to be delivered within 10 days, this started in June if I am not mistaken. Following this we received other e-mails from Oska stating the same - delivery in 10 or 15 days. After, I think  the fourth such mail we now started to wonder what was going on? If we had received a mail saying hey guys we are much later than planned and that delivery has been pushed back, we would have understood.

 

 

The simple fact that we were told to expect them and then did not after so many times was not good business.

 

 

The refund from Oska was given but not with any apology, it was quite the opposite.

 

 

If I am asked about Retra at DEMA and around, I will certainly say “wait and see”. Having had this service to-date what may be the service when products are returned? And there will be returns, because in manufacturing it is inevitable.   

 

 

I hope others have a better experience than me with Retra now and in the future…

 

Barry 


Edited by Footloose_za, 17 October 2017 - 12:34 AM.


#90 bvanant

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 07:57 AM

This is an interesting discussion that most people in product development can relate to. If I tell you I will have your product on Tuesday and give it to you on Wednesday you are very unhappy; if I tell you you will have your product on Thursday and you get it on Wednesday you are happy.  Unfortunately it appears that what should have happened was that Retra should have said "we will get you your strobes by the end of the year" when in fact it appears that they kept saying "10 days" when they surely knew that 10 days was a complete joke.  We all know that things take time and that new products take a lot of time but managing perceptions of your customers is the job the marketing guys and these guys didn't do that very well.  

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#91 Gemma Dry

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 11:37 AM

Thank you Bill. That is our point entirely.

If we were told it would come at the end of 2017 there would have been no issue at all if we knew that in advance.

It was the constant, we are shipping, etc...... that just after 4 times just started to not fly with me.

 

rather be upfront.



#92 stewsmith

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 04:47 AM

Wow this thread made for interesting reading. I totally feel for anyone that were hoping to get theirs by a certain date only to not get them. Then be promised another date and to not get them again. My dealings with Oskar via social media messages has been absolutely faultless. He has always been polite, replied to many messages of mine almost immediately and warned me of when I would realistically expect to get my delivery if I was to place an order today. I will be making my purchase this evening and hopefully Retra will deliver when they say.

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