100 replies to this topic

[herbko]

I really don't think it compares to the 5D either. They are vastly different.

It's more of a 20D competitor than anything else. It's DX cropped camera. The main difference are 2 more Mpixels, ~$400 higher cost, a couple of nice features like RGB histogram, and the yet to be tested noise and image sharpness.

The 5D cost 2x as much, almost entirely due to the FF sensor.

I think it's now almost certain the Canon 20D replacement will have 10 - 12 Mpixel. I'm not happy to see the Megapixel race continue. I'd rather see them trade off sensor resolution for better noise and dynamic range.

[james]

Hi Herb (and Dave) The really nice features - and the ones that I think set the D200 well apart from the 20D - are hard to pin down. They mainly have to do with "settings" which are hard to describe - perhaps Alex can help here. See this thread and posts by Thom for some of the details:

http://forums.dprevi...essage=15674863

Cheers
James

[Rocha]

I agree with you James (and with Thom). On paper, the D200 specs are much more similar to the 5D than to the 20D. For specs I mean both UW related and non-UW related specs, like viewfinder and LCD size, FPS, build quality, etc.

The only advantages that I see on the 5D (compared to the D200) are the full frame sensor (which doesn't bother me because Nikon does make the 10.5 fisheye) and the 2 extra megapixels (which aren't that much). This is indeed a very competitive camera, and I think it will certainly slow down even D2x sales.

[Alex_Mustard]

For UW shooting I think that the comparison with the 5D is fair because of the lack of the fisheye on the 20D. Fisheyes are very important for creating space in UW shooting. Look at the first and second place portfolios at Antibes if you doubt the importance of fisheyes for serious UW shooting. Also in terms of megapixels 10 is closer to 12, than 8 is closer to 10. But I do agree with Herb that the Megapixel marketing race is annoying and distracts from more important issues.

Anyway I actually think that Nikon and Canon have slightly different strategies with their product lines and the D200 falls between the 20D and 5D. So they fit together in a very neat 5D>D200>20D order.

The AF options on the D200 look very interesting from my Nikon experience. But the really important factor in making use of these is how fast the AF of the MultiCam-1000 is. And we don't know that yet.

Alex

[Cerianthus]

does the high(er) megapixel DX-sensor choice for this camera mean that Nikon have made their choice for the DX format?

[UWPhotoTech]

Yeah!!! The ports for my Light & Motion D100 housing might still have a bright future in front of them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really hope you're right on this one, I'd love to see the Titan D200! I'm reasonably sure they'd redesign the dome port to accomodate the 10.5 lens.

[UWPhotoTech]

Dave, Did you also get pricing indications on the new SU-800 unit and the iTTL closeup flash kits??  Not that I'm thinking of housing them, but I am intrigued for topside use. TIA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The R1C1 Wireless Close-Up Speedlight Kit with the SU-800 will sell for $679.95 and the R1 (same kit less the SU-800) will sell for $429.95

[acroporas]

I dont see how the D200 will be closer in resolution to the 5D than it is to the 20D.

My math puts it exactly between the two by pixels. 10.2 is 25% more than 8.2 and 12.8 is 24% more than 10.2.

But then the 5D with it's larger pixels should have at least slightly better per pixel sharpness, puting the D200 closer to the 20D when it comes to actual resolving power.

But then the 5D should be better at 2x the cost.

I think the 5D vs D200 comparison is the same as the 5D vs 20D comparison. In both cases it is clear that the 5D is a superior camera. But is the difference enough to compensate for a price that is 2x or 3x as expensive.

The 5D vs D200 debait is much more about price vs performance than it is about performance.

And I think that the D200 will be a clear winner when it comes to price vs performance. I know that if the D200 was released at the same time as the 5D, I would have a D200 right now....So I do think that it will cut into 5D sales as much as 20D sales.

[Rocha]

Here are two interesting links. A video by CNET that gives us a nice sense of size:

http://reviews.cnet....l?tag=cnetfd.sd

And the 24 page final PDF in English, with some samples:

ftp://ftp.nikon-euro.com/Brochures/XkDB9X...pg_Final_EN.pdf

[ssra30]

Nikon seems to be making a lot of fuss about comparing D200 to 5D and pretty much ignored 20D in their documents that I saw.
Feature wise, I think that it is definitely on par with 5D or better in many respect. Of course the big question is how well the 10.2 mp CCD cropped sensor will compare to 5D full frame sensor.
Personally I think it should be similar to comparing D2X to 1Ds MkII.
I think Nikon did their homework well. If they only aim to compete with 20D, they are in serious trouble, I think.

[ReefRoamer]

I imagine Canon will very shortly (before D200 shipment?) intro a successor to their 20D that offers increased resolution, bigger display and other new features. In fact, they've probably been sitting on this model since the 20D has had no real competition since introduction. Within a year, I expect a FF successor to the 5D that is smaller, faster and cheaper. Still, the D200 looks to be wonderful, albeit late, successor to the D100, and an easy upgrade path for UW D100/D70 shooters.

[james]

Bad news for high-speed sync lovers. From Rob Galbraith:

"We did learn that, unlike all current and previous CCD-based Nikon digital SLR cameras back to the D1, the shutter in the D200 is fully-responsible for controlling the exposure time. For photographers who rarely use non-dedicated flash units, this won't mean much. For those who shoot sports with Elinchrom or other studio strobes, as we do, this means it won't be possible to cheat the sync speed well above 1/250th with this camera. High-speed flash synchronization is possible only with a compatible Nikon Speedlight."

Cheers
James

[kdietz]

Rob has never met Ike

Karl

[herbko]

Rob has never met Ike   

Karl

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They can probabaly decode the Nikon link. However, to make it useful, you will need a MUCH bigger strobe than the DS125.

[james]

What am I missing here? Rob is saying that the D200 does NOT have an electronic/mechanical shutter like all past Nikon cameras. I don't think Ike can change that...

Cheers
James

[Rocha]

I think they mean that Ikelite can change their strobes to function in high-speed sync, like the Nikon speedlights do. The secret is making the strobe stay on long enough to iluminate the entire sensor. But that would require more power, and I think that's why Herb said a strobe larger than the DS125 would be necessary.

[james]

Ah, interesting.

The way Canon does high speed sync is for the strobe to fire a series of pulses as the shutter opening passes over the sensor. I would think that this would be possible with existing strobes, provided the "software" is there.

It's not going to be as easy as taping over the hotshoe like you can do w/ the D70...

Cheers
James

[kdietz]

Luiz, you got my my feeble attempt at humor and an "atta boy" for one of our sponsors....

[james]

Sorry Karl, it's been a long day...

James

[herbko]

Luiz, you got my my feeble attempt at humor and an "atta boy" for one of our sponsors....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not actually impossible. You just have to get use to diving with strobes the size of small jet engines.