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#41 tdpriest

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Posted 30 September 2006 - 05:37 AM

I have lost so many shots behind a pair of force fins....

I think this discussion is wide of the mark: have you noticed how an old diver in a pair of training fins can stay still in a current when the new guys with their $200 fins get swept away? It's technique, and a little knowledge of the dive site. It trumps the world's best fins any day.

Now, if I HAD $200 (instead of saving for the next housing) spare I'm not saying that I wouldn't buy force fins, as the combination of age, experience and design might be the best of all....

.... but I WOULD feel guilty if I stirred up all the silt with that jet that comes off the fins. I guess that it's only polite to learn the cave frog kick.

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#42 MikeVeitch

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Posted 30 September 2006 - 05:49 AM

ummmm.... Tim....

what has cave got to do with frog kick?

i mostly frog with my long bladed free diving fins...

never been in a cave.

i personally believe that a frog kick comes natural to a diver as they gain experience. i watch all our dive guides here (most have been doing it for 10-15 years full time) and they all frog kick. And they have certainly never been trained in tech/cave diving...

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#43 fdog

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Posted 30 September 2006 - 08:01 AM

ummmm.... Tim....

what has cave got to do with frog kick?

i mostly frog with my long bladed free diving fins...

never been in a cave.

i personally believe that a frog kick comes natural to a diver as they gain experience. i watch all our dive guides here (most have been doing it for 10-15 years full time) and they all frog kick. And they have certainly never been trained in tech/cave diving...

The cave frog kick, also known as the modified frog, is done with the knees at a 90 degree angle so that the lower leg is vertical. This places the fins further from the easily silted floor of the cave.

This kick relies heavily on the ankles and is more easily done with short, stiff fins.

The typical open water frog is done with a fairly straight leg and is more efficient, especially with longer fins.

<shrugs> Different tools for different jobs.

All the best, James

#44 MikeVeitch

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Posted 30 September 2006 - 02:15 PM

gotcha... thanks James

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#45 frogfish

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 07:41 AM

Interesting how this topic keeps resurfacing. Since I contributed to this thread almost a year ago, I've given up on my Force Fins and gone back to JetFins (with steel spring straps), and I'm glad I did. The bottom line: these are still the fins I want if I have if I have to work up-current, and particularly if there is any kind of trouble and I need to get somewhere fast. But I know these are not for everyone.

I now think that what makes a fin work depends a lot on individual physiology, including both musculature as well bone structure and angles. I've also noticed that people who have a background in competitive swimming and/or water polo (in their youth) often tend to like very stiff fins, though I haven't got enough samples to make this a rule yet.

I'm keeping the Force Fins, but only for use as "macro" fins on muck dives. They are sometimes easier to keep high and clear in very silty locations than the Jet Fins.

I frog kick a lot, which is another reason I'm giving up on the Force Fins, which really don't work well with the scissoring/feathering frog kick I like to use, which might be something like the one fdog uses.

I have a pair of Master Frogs I still use once in a while. I loved them when they were new, but found that they lost stiffness after a few hundred dives, or maybe it was the travelling. I like stiff fins, and unfortunately my Master Frogs started out nice and stiff, but they aren't now. Not only that, but the lug molded onto the fin for attaching the strap is also breaking off on one side. I know I put a lot of miles on my fins, but still......

One thing about Jet Fins, you can't do much to them just by using them or packing them in a dive bag. With stainless steel spring heels, these fins are basically indestructable.

Frogfish...
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#46 underwatercolours

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 06:47 PM

I guess I've been asleep at the wheel cuz this is the first time I noticed this discussion. Funny how fins can be such a personal and passionate issue. We all love our fins. Hmmm...Do any of us declare such public affection for our spouses / boyfriends or girlfriends / boat flings? :(

I have used Atomic SplitFins for years and absolutely love them, but like most fins they are heavy to pack. Dave makes a good point with the size, weight and age thing. Although I'm younger, smaller and have a bitter figure than he does, not to mention bone structure and angles (I'm sure I'll be hearing from him about this) I agree that the way we dive and our own physical fitness has something to do with our preferences. I have found over the years that I can get used to just about any fin and convince myself that I really like them, but I keep going back to my Atomic SplitFins. Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

I must add the disclaimer that Atomic Aquatics is my client so I may be biased, but nobody else has given me a fin I like better.

When Atomic came out with the full foot SplitFin I got one of the first pairs. They are 1/2 the weight of my open heel fins. This was about the same time the airlines lowered the luggage weight to 50#. Good timing. Every ounce helps. They were so lightweight that fellow phototogs made fun of me thinking I would never be able to keep up with them in a current. Well, they were very wrong and I smoked most of them carrying a housing just as heavy as theirs. Yes they were all older than me too, but I didn't sacrifice any power for the lighter weight fins and saved a couple of pounds in my luggage. That means packing a couple of extra lenses, a backup strobe, or bottle of massage lotion that I normally might have left at home to keep my bags under that 50# limit.

Before Dave's Bahamas tiger shark trip I traded in my yellow fins for blue ones because I was told not to dive with sharks wearing yellow fins. Now my Atomic Aquatics blue full foot SplitFins match my wetsuit, which we all know if the most important thing anyway. :)

#47 hoovermd

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 01:31 PM

Before Dave's Bahamas tiger shark trip I traded in my yellow fins for blue ones because I was told not to dive with sharks wearing yellow fins. Now my Atomic Aquatics blue full foot SplitFins match my wetsuit, which we all know if the most important thing anyway. :)


Hmmmm... didn't know sharks could tell colors
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#48 dhaas

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 05:53 PM

OK Bonnie,

Younger? Better figure? To whom? :) The dolphins liked me better in my easy to zoom around black Scubapro full foot TwinJets !!!

Tim says it best, technique will trump gear anyday..... and as I said in my first post on the discussion's first page.

I think many people like Bonnie says can keep up longer with efficient slightly more flexible fins. I also think the frog kick as shown to me by cave divers, tech divers, etc. is BS in the ocean.....I never use it.....But then I swam freestyle WAAAYYYY back in high school and can do various levels of a flutter kick.....

Here's Bonnie in her Atomic full foot split fins. She is right, no trouble at all keeping up. Even Jim Abernethy pushing a giant BonniePAug2006.jpg FX1 HD video camera and lights uses plain old Mares Avanti TRE (or Quattro) full foot fins. Can't remember the exact model, but the point is they are full foot lightweight fins and he's swimming in currents, zooming around Tiger and Lemon sharks, etc.!!

YMMV

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#49 hoovermd

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 06:48 PM

Interesting but my original query was looking for SHORTER fins than my Atomics :)

However, it seems that folks would recommend my Atomic Splits for Galapagos diving due to currents??
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#50 MikeVeitch

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 07:08 PM

i just bought a set of travel fins.... my cressi free divers are too long and the old set i had that i cut two inches off broke the foot pocket.. hahaah


so... what did i buy?

Mares Avanti Quattro full foot.

Only problem is i had to get a friend to buy them for me... it will be a surprise to find what colour i get!

haha

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#51 Arnon_Ayal

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 01:15 AM

Only problem is i had to get a friend to buy them for me... it will be a surprise to find what colour i get!

Get ready for a pink pair :) they are now in very good price all over B)

Does someone have experience with the Deep outdoor's six gill fins?
I sow that fin and its looks interesting, especially its weight and size and also got recommendations from few people that use it.
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#52 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 01:29 AM

Here is a recent picture of a couple of photographers at work.

Posted Image
Photo borrowed from Joe Samplin.

The baldy chap on the left (me) is wearing those flippety floppety Scubapro Twin Jets - in the full foot variety. Note how colour coordinated his outfit is.
The lad on the right (Frink) is so good he doesn't even need fins!

:)

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#53 MikeVeitch

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 01:49 AM

alex you really need to get the clippers out and shave that melon... hahahahaha


i used those fins of yours (the yellow variety) gave me horrible foot cramps, far too loosey goosey in the pocket for me

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#54 dhaas

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 03:47 AM

Mike,

Try the Black Full Foot Scubapro TwinJets if you ever get a chance. A bit stiffer but still have the split fin advantages. Plus I always wear a thin Mares .5mm neoprene sock for a snug, but not too tight fit.

I always start a trip thinking I will dive like "Island Boy" just barefoot and my fins. But within 2 days my achilles starts getting blisters (torn in 1990) so I now use the little socks and voila' no problem!

If you come to DEMA we can chat it up at the Wetpixel cocktail party :)

Later,

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#55 MikeVeitch

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 06:28 AM

hey Dave... ya, no worries on the blisters. i don't actually own shoes.....
my feet are like rocks

But, its not the heel that was the problem, rather the flexibility of the pocket. The fins i use have a very stiff pocket and therefore the toes, foot etc don't move much.. the very maleable pocket of the SP splits (black, yellow, blue, etc) just not my cup o cheese.. not used to the movement and made my plates o meat hurt like a mofo....

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#56 fdog

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 05:08 PM

Potentially OT, but I couldn't resist...

Since everyone's talking up their favorite fin, I couldn't help but post what gets me around.

<tounge firmly in cheek> ...I'll even issue a speed/distance challenge, with the proviso that I get to use my standard kit as seen below!

All the best, James

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#57 Jim

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 01:29 PM

I've used a pair of maxi TUSA fins for the past 20 years. They're similiar to scubapro jetfins but with a plastic blade. They have been a fantastic fin, great control and power. I've never considered changing fins until having achilles tendonitis earlier this year. Reluctantly, I purchased a set of TUSA Xpert Zoom fins because of the reduced resistance for a dive trip later this month. It will be interesting to see the difference between the two fins. Of course my old fins are making the trip as well :)

#58 John Bantin

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 03:11 PM

Anyone actually bought any of these Gills ICE fins?

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#59 ce4jesus

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 02:52 PM

I have the Plana Quattros and I'm not sure I like them. They're very difficult during surface swims, so much so that if there's any current you'll need to drop down and go. I also had to put different buckles than the Mares original because they kept coming unbuckled underwater. Additionally I appear to struggle to keep up (I'm not out of shape, I run 3 miles 3 times a week). I usually find myself exhausted after a short swim against current. After the discussion on this board I'll probably go out and buy the regular jetfins.
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#60 hoovermd

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 06:46 AM

Any opinions on the OMS Slipstream fin? I see they have a new material and have slightly changed the design...
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