Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Thinking of switching to HDV?


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#21 DeanB

DeanB

    Humpback Whale

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3073 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:U.K

Posted 01 December 2005 - 07:39 AM

Sounds good in theory, but my budget says no...I think its going to be another P.C just for films in the future..Maybe a laptop. Any idea's on that front???

On the downvert topic. Will the quality of recording straight to DVCAM be any different to recording in HDV then converting.. i.e; is any quality lost through this process..? If not, whats the point other than time issues.??

Dive safe

DeanB
Facebook me ;)
NOW ON SKYPE !!! ... deanb69
www.waterwolf-productions.co.uk

#22 richorn

richorn

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 462 posts
  • Location:Phoenix, AZ

Posted 01 December 2005 - 09:21 AM

Its not cheap though but just another way of doing it.


Well, there is an understatement. Figure 15k minimum for decks, 5-10k for monitoring, and another 5-10k (minimum) for an edit controller. This does not include a character generator (for slates and titling) or a DVE for any effects (repositioning said titles), or any audio! Need a mixer as well for that.

There is no faster way to slate or version masters, as well as building clip reels for EPK's etc, but for creative work? Linear only makes sense in a multi camera environment.

The beauty is you build the master tape as you go. No wasting time sucking in all the material.


As for speed, creative work MUST be done before entering the linear arena, so all the time you save in post goes away doing the creative work. Oh yeah, you probably needed to do the creative work in a computer, so you had to digitize the media anyway, just at a lower resolution...


The days of linear editing really are over. I am upgrading my linear suite to HD just for clip reels and EPK's, as well as slating and versioning our TV spots. However, I am going to build it as cheaply as possible, as it will never be practical (read cost effective) for use outside those needs.
Richard

_________________________________________
Nikon D2XS in a Subal
Negative Altitude Website

#23 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 09 December 2005 - 10:28 PM

http://videosystems....orld/index.html

INTRO :
"So if you're not looking at HDV editing technology strictly from the point of view of “which is best,” why do you care? Two reasons. You need to understand the strengths and limitations of the approach you're buying into. First, you need to know if your computer system will adequately support the approach. That is not just CPU gigahertz — it is also motherboard chipset and disk storage systems. For example, you may need to buy a RAID with several terabytes of storage depending on the NLE you choose."

SCAREE PART:
"Upon HD input, the uncompressed digital video can be stored to disk using Apple's uncompressed 8-bit and uncompressed 10-bit. A RAID is required because, for example, 1080i video requires a data transfer data rate of 124MB per second. In fact, a very large RAID is required because an hour of 1080i requires 448GB. Moreover, this is using uncompressed 8-bit video. These values increase — for 1080i, to 166MB per second and a whopping 597GB per hour of footage — were you to digitize to 10 bits."
i'm just an avid amateur in Florida... i guess i'll keep playing the Lotto and if my 6 numbers ever hit........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Meekal, what you are talking about is uncompressed HD which HDV is NOT. HDV files are compressed and about the same size (depending on P or i). If you upconvert then you will need the faster machines and servers. Otherwise if you can do DV on your machine, you can do HDV albeit a little slower due to the added post time.

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#24 DeanB

DeanB

    Humpback Whale

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3073 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:U.K

Posted 10 December 2005 - 01:39 AM

Hi Drew,

I.ve had a look at the Alien laptops and p.c's. Seems like a good idea although i haven't seen any reviews yet, or other peoples thoughts. Do you know anyone who has one. I thought they looked alright but as they say "Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder" It's the performance not the style I'm after. (if they do the job)

Dive safe

DeanB
Facebook me ;)
NOW ON SKYPE !!! ... deanb69
www.waterwolf-productions.co.uk

#25 Detonate

Detonate

    Sting Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 287 posts
  • Location:Arlington, TX
  • Interests:SCUBA, Photography, Off Roading, Rock Climbing, Mt. Biking, etc...

Posted 12 December 2005 - 11:50 AM

Alienware do make some of the fastest pre-made systems.

However, they charge out the ying yang. Just configure one on their website, print out the parts list, and then go build it yourself and you'll save a couple grand.

#26 DeanB

DeanB

    Humpback Whale

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3073 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:U.K

Posted 12 December 2005 - 01:47 PM

Cheers Jim,

I'll take a look !!

Dive safe

DeanB
Facebook me ;)
NOW ON SKYPE !!! ... deanb69
www.waterwolf-productions.co.uk

#27 meekal

meekal

    Sea Nettle

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 14 posts

Posted 16 December 2005 - 11:03 PM

Meekal, what you are talking about is uncompressed HD which HDV

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


sorry for the delay in responding... been stuck in key west for 4 days.... i just wish i could report wonderful diving, but...... my momma taught me to never lie.

but i digress.... thanks for clarifying that for me SCUBADRU. i'm glad i prefaced my comment with "ALMOST UNDERSTAND...." - i certainly got twisted up on that one.... but that's what so great about these forums...... with so much information out there it's great to have it 'clarified' by folks that can see thru fog.... most of the time my eyes glaze over like a deer in the headlights! but i'm trying!

now if i could just find a housing for my old BROWNIE.... hehehehehe

#28 larsdennert

larsdennert

    Wolf Eel

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 100 posts

Posted 17 December 2005 - 04:30 PM

I bought a Gateway 840GM for $1100. It's a dual core Pentium 3ghz with SATA and DL burner. A fraction of the Alienware machines. Does well but there's still plenty of render time. It'd be nice to have an MPEG/WMV/MP4 rendering card for HD. It comes with a tuner card that has an MPEG compressor chip but it's not useful for HD.

#29 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 17 December 2005 - 09:47 PM

Dean
I did use the Alienware MJ12-M7700 machine. The 17" wide screen SXGA+ LCD is very nice and viewable from up to 110°. The best of all is the dual SATA drive setup for RAID 0/1. The guy I know is using it for field editing for dailies. With 240GB RAID 0/1, it's fast enough for DVC Pro HD in the field. Of course render time is still dependent on the processor. But the permanent dual drive hardware RAID setup isn't unique to Alienware. Sager, Clevo and a few others also have dual drive RAID support. The only problem I have with many of these solutions is the removeable portion of the 2nd drive. Sure many servers can do it but on a laptop I prefer it to be built in secure. Of course it is monster heavy but for a laptop with 3GB RAM and dual SATA connectors, it's a great machine.

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#30 Detonate

Detonate

    Sting Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 287 posts
  • Location:Arlington, TX
  • Interests:SCUBA, Photography, Off Roading, Rock Climbing, Mt. Biking, etc...

Posted 18 December 2005 - 08:31 AM

There are also some places that cater pre-built system to video editors.

The great thing about this as that most come with seperate OS and video partitions in mind, some with scratch disks as well.

Also, the other thing I noticed is that most companies like Alienware are for the most part catering to gamers. The next video card I get will have dual DVI out plus Component video out. This way I can run Dual 19" LCD and have a 17" LCD HDTV for realtime full screen preview window.

Also, for those concerned about editing HDV and are upgrading only for that reason, there are programs that can create proxy editing files. There are people on the DVI forums editing HD with Sony Vegas on a Pentium III machine. Sure it takes about 48 hours to rendor the project, but editing and preview is in realtime.

#31 freediver

freediver

    Wolf Eel

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 180 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 27 December 2005 - 03:21 PM

DRU - you basically answered all the questions I had about whether to jump headlong into HD or not - As my gut level feeling suspected, even though HD is great, it still isn't wideloy available to the masses just yet and as such, staying with SD is still a known entity - PD170/VX2100 setup still has an edge in turning a buck. Plus th eadded savings at this time for investment in NLE hardware justifies the ROI for the short term. Thanks for your analysis - it just made my decision making process much easier.. :)

Cliff Etzel

website | blog

"To live the liquid life is to experience the rehabilitation of our bodies and minds as they evolve in the underwater world by not using any form of mechanical breathing apparatus - this is the essence, the purity of purpose of freediving." - Aharon Solomons


#32 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 27 December 2005 - 08:27 PM

Freediver, Moore's law states you have 12 months left with the PD170/VX2100. :)

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#33 freediver

freediver

    Wolf Eel

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 180 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 27 December 2005 - 08:59 PM

LOL - go figure.

I'm hoping by then that someone comes out with an HD camcorder and housing the size of the SONY PC series or Canon Elura. For freediving that would be the shizzo...

Cliff Etzel

website | blog

"To live the liquid life is to experience the rehabilitation of our bodies and minds as they evolve in the underwater world by not using any form of mechanical breathing apparatus - this is the essence, the purity of purpose of freediving." - Aharon Solomons


#34 freediver

freediver

    Wolf Eel

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 180 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 29 December 2005 - 11:43 AM

Was talking with a colleague of mine who is a still shooter making the move to shooting video. He has had a chance to play with the new HD XL camera from Canon - he said it blew his mind! He said there is rumor that Canon is working on an HD version based on the GL2 design. He stated that one of the things he liked about the Canon is it has more of a film look compared to the SONY's...

Cliff Etzel

website | blog

"To live the liquid life is to experience the rehabilitation of our bodies and minds as they evolve in the underwater world by not using any form of mechanical breathing apparatus - this is the essence, the purity of purpose of freediving." - Aharon Solomons


#35 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 29 December 2005 - 04:37 PM

The XLHD1 is very nice...but tell your colleague to go try out the HVX200 in 1080/24P. Then ask him how he feels about the canon's film look.

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.