209 replies to this topic

[dhaas]

Guys,

I've had a rider policy with State Farm (cars and homeowners, too) for years at 100% replacement cost with me defining that cost. I'll double check exclusions after reading this but haven't had a claim in years and my agent has always been accomodating as long as a claim is legit.....

I've reduced coverage of items over the years to the following:

Digital cameras and lenses, plus land and underwater flashes. As already noted housings flooded can be resurrected pretty easily. Ikelite's underwater strobes can usually be repaired at super reasonable rates, too.

Food for thought......

David Haas

[echeng]

Brandon - Thanks for your comments, and welcome to the board (again)!

Dave - but what does that State Farm rider cover? I can certainly put a rider on the items with my home owner's insurance, but I've had problems getting them to cover flood and loss while in my custody. In order to make it affordable, my deductible is also around $500.

[james]

I like Brandon's suggestion - look at how much it costs to be "self insured" vs getting coverage w/ DAN or DEPP. Add up yearly premiums, plus deductible, and compare to replacement cost. Don't forget small items like batteries and memory cards. When calculating replacement cost - make sure you take into acct. camera depreciation. I replaced an S2 recently for $1,500 that I bought for $2,100. Digital assets depreciate fast!

Cheers
James

[MikeO]

Like Dave, I have a special rider on my homeowner's policy that covers all my photo-related gear. It is most certainly less expensive than the specialty insurers, but I also do it with full knowledge that "normal" insurance companies look dimly on people actually making claims against the policy they paid good money for in good faith (please no lectures on rate raising).

As for DAN. Suffice it to say that I have been summarily displeased with their ability to do anything other than take my money. I had the preferred plan with them and attempted to make a claim after blowing out my knee. I had to cancel a trip and tried to make a claim for reimbursement. Because the knee had been operated on previously they denied my claim as a pre-existing condition. They did not care or even want to hear that I had recovered from the prior sugery, been certified by my doctor to dive again, then re-injured the knee. I found this to be akin to my car insurance company telling me that they weren't going to compensate me after someone crashed into my truck because the truck had been hit and fixed the year before. Their trip insurance is farmed out to a third party company that doesn't give a rats ass about divers, only in minimizing cost. I still have DAN dive insurance but only because I haven't explored the newer options yet . . .

Mike

[echeng]

James -

"Add up yearly premiums, plus deductible, and compare to replacement cost."

That's not entirely accurate. You have to take the best case (no loss) and worst case (loss, taking into account deductible), and run the numbers for both.

It also sounds like you are comparing self-insurance with DAN/DEPP. You can only get an interesting number for "self-insurance" (which is really just no insurance, right?) if you project an expected loss over some number of years. The numbers are never going to compete favorably with insurance until the expected number of years before a loss goes up.

Part of what we pay for is also peace-of-mind. I'm not sure how to value that.

[james]

Eric is right. I wasn't advocating self insurance - just trying to form a framework to analyze the problem.

I value peace of mind enough to ALWAYS carry insurance on my gear. Not to mention that I have flooded an S2 before, so I can TRULY appreciate the problem.

James

[MikeO]

Eric,

I happen to have my USAA rider policy in front of me. No deductible. They will pay me either replacement cost ("replace with property of comparable kind, quality or usefulness, without deduction for depreciation") or the cost of having the item repaired ("restored to the condition it was in before loss"). Only thing of potential concern is that they will not necessarily reimburse the cost of a "set" of stuff because one item gets damaged (IOW, if my outdated camera is killed in a flood but the housing is still usable, they won't reimburse me for a newer model camera plus a housing to make it submersible again). Not sure how DEPP would handle that. At the moment I have $11,898 in declared value insured for $133/year. I've never made a claim against it so I can't speak to the actual claims process.

[acroporas]

DEPP covers complete loss if you get the boat to sign a statement saying that it was because of extraordinary circumstances.  But DEPP doesn't always give you cash, and will sometimes replace lost/damaged equipment with something equivalent.

How does this work when you arent diving from a dive boat? Who signs if you have to dump your gear on a shore dive? Or in my case. 80% of my dives are done from my own boat. Can I sign my own statment saying that there were bad conditions?

[echeng]

How does this work when you arent diving from a dive boat?  Who signs if you have to dump your gear on a shore dive?  Or in my case.  80% of my dives are done from my own boat.  Can I sign my own statment saying that there were bad conditions?

I have no idea. But it would be great to find out. Want to e-mail/call the DEPP folk?

[dhaas]

Eric, (and guys)

No deductible on the policy I have. I specify the amount I feel will be reasonable to buy another toy (and check it often to see how fast digital equipment prices are falling!)

I've NEVER insured more than $12,000.00 of stuff even back in the days of several Nikon N90s cameras, lenses, housings for two cameras,etc. I think I've never paid more than $135.00 / year for this policy, but I also may be the exception with not too many claims.....

One friend, a State Farm agent and diver himself once advised me: If something floods, tell them it dropped on the deck, looked OK so you went diving. Part way into the dive a massive flood toasted it. I'm certainly not advocating insurance fraud, we all pay higher premiums due to people submitting screen door replacements, tiny car dings, etc. But when I pay premiums year after year and then want coverage I certainly am not going to just walk away...

One final note....most of us are part time journalists but more hobbyists with this insane activity. I'm finding as technology progresses I can do more with less.....I posted somewhere on Wetpixel the cost of a Canon EOS 300D is akin to the old days of Nikonos V bodies that you would have 2 or moer for big trips. If one dies throw it away (and maybe claim insurance to get another one.) I like the new toys as much as the next guy but am constantly eyeing new technology (translates into cheaper technology) to deliver images I'm happy with.

YMMV

David Haas

[brandoncole]

One thing also to consider... some home owner's policies will not cover gear if used in a professional capacity, which can be defined in many ways, not always in your favor when it comes to crunch (ie claim) time...

brandon

[Kira]

I'm thinking of insuaring my diving and underwater photography equipments and I'm wondering if there's any agencies in Singapore that's willing to do that?

Also, I wouldn't mind if the insurances are purely for traveling to other countries only. i.e. Travel Insurances for dive and photograpy equipments against thiefs, lost, etc, etc.

I know that DAN has some insurances for diving and underwater equipments but that's only available to ppl living in the USA.

So is there anyone out there that's using equipment insurances as mention above? Wouldn't want to have my baggages worth up to maybe $10k lost in transit.

Pls advice.
Thanks

[echeng]

Hey, guys. I've run the numbers, and here's what I've come up with, as an example. To insure $27,600 worth of equipment:

DAN
-----
Premium: $829 (just the photo equipment, valued at around $27,600)

Deductible: $100 or max(10% or $250), if water damage

No longer covers complete loss of equipment while in your hands/possession -- under any circumstances.

Cash settlement.

DEPP (UPDATED 5/3/04)
------
Premium: $606.66 (photo equipment, valued at around $27,600, plus an additional $1,900 worth of dive gear) plus $527.66 flood coverage for $13,191 worth of equipment = $1,134.32

Items over $5000 are charged an additional 4% in premium, not including flood coverage, which means that it costs 8% to insure an item over $5000 for flood.

Deductible: $25 or min(10% or $250), for water damage

Covers complete loss while in your custody, given suitable reason, with note from boat owner/witness.

Cash or replacement settlement.

Case 1:
---------

1) Flood 1Ds w/ 15mm, CF card
Value: $9200

DAN: $920 deductible
DEPP: $250 deductible
----

UPDATE -- not sure anymore which one to use. I'm going to run some numbers where I insure my 1Ds separately, under DAN insurance, because it costs so much more under the DEPP policy!!

[Simon K.]

Kira: I just made a contract with DEPP. The insure you no matter where you lives.

I'm located in Europe

[echeng]

OK. I've had a really hard time with DEPP recently. They were responsive up until I gave them my credit card information, and since then, I have been unable to get a response out of them after repeated e-mails (our previous contact method). It's been more than three weeks, with repeated e-mails.

I finally left an exasperated voicemail, and we'll see when they get back to me. All I want to get is my policy certificate.

Anyone know what is going on with them?

[The Hamburger]

Eric,

Any update on DEPP?

CHeers

[echeng]

Nope! This sucks.

[Peter Schulz]

New H20 policies and renewal policies now include the following.

"5. Perils Excluded

d. Items lost while in your care, custody, and control - while in use
both in and out of the water, dropped overboard, or swept over-board."

So I asked DEPP Insurance the following question.

"Can you please clarify for me e.g. if, while handing my dive camera up
to the dive master on the boat, the camera is accidentally dropped
overboard and can not be found, will your company replace the camera?"

They responded as follows.

"We are aware the DAN Program has excluded losses resulting from "lost"
equipment. [However] In your scenario, yes, there would be coverage under the DEPP Program. "

Need I say more?

[echeng]

Peter - that scenario is why I switched to DEPP this year.

By the way, they finally got back to me. I'm still not sure what the problem was -- maybe a wrong e-mail address? But my coverage went through. I'm just waiting for a certificate.

[whitey]

I just signed up with DEPP, $199 for premium on just over $4000 of gear.

I didn't insure my housing for flood - is that stupid? I'm just planning on giving it a good wash in frehwater if it does. False economy or is this what others are doing also?

I also didn't cover the strobe - figuring that it (a ds-50) is not likely to have a catastrophic flood.