37 replies to this topic

[Drew]

Canon just announced the 20Dn/30D. It's got the same sensor with a bigger LCF and buffer. Nothing to write home about. Oh yeah and picture styles! Woohoo

[Jolly]

Looks like 30D offers just minor modifications and bigger LCD. This could be annoying for housing builders as the body has changed, but the camera does not offer serious advantages over 20D. OK, maybe the direct print button ...

Julian

[yahsemtough]

I can live without the larger LCD. Sure it would be nice but that and a burst range increased doesn't get me to budge. Going to take a lot more than that.

Here's a link

Canon 30D at PMA

[MikeO]

Everyone on the rumor forums has been talking about this for a while. However, none of the rumor mongers (except for one person I talked to -- you know who you are) predicted that the MP count would remain a 8. I was hoping this would be something I would trade my 10D in for -- maybe not!

Mike

[allen]

The specs are on all of Canon's website as well. I did a quick comparison of the 30d's specs and and 20d's specs. And would agree that it was a pretty dissapointing offer. Canon could have done all of that within a year. But then they would not be able to make their money on the 20d.

Perhaps the bright side is the new 17-55mm f2.8 lens. Not quite an L series lens but should be a nice addition over the 17-85.

[Alex_Mustard]

It was obviously coming, but I expected more from the specs. Maybe the improvements over the 20D might be beneath the skin?

I don't see this camera as offering much to the underwater photographer that the 20D doesn't already. Sure the screen is nice. But will housing manufacturers really bother with a new housing? Maybe they will if it can be accomodated with just a new backplate? But I don't think it will command much of the market. The 20D or the 5D are better choices as there are already (some) housings for both.

One positive of this underwhelming offering is that maybe it means Canon have something big up their sleeves? A 1DS MK3 perhaps? Or maybe 1DS Mk2n at least?

Alex

[TheQ]

Hopefully it will drop into a 5D enclosure with no modifications. It would be a good backup camera for half the price... [crosses fingers]

[allen]

Hopefully it will drop into a 5D enclosure with no modifications.  It would be a good backup camera for half the price...   [crosses fingers]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to the specs on Canon site the body size the same as the 20D just a bit deeper:

Dimensions :
5D 152 x 113 x 75mm
30D 144 x 105.5 x 73.5mm
20D 144 x 105.5 x 71.5mm

I think as Alex said a new back plate will be in order. I asked Blake at Aquatica what it would take to go from the 20d to 30d last month. His reply was that "As long as the new Canon camera is not alot bigger than the 20D,we should be fast to the market, we currently use the same casting shell for the Nikon D70,Canon 20d,Canon 5d and soon the Nikon D200." The 30D can now be added to that list. I am sure others will be doing the same.

[MikeO]

It was obviously coming, but I expected more from the specs. Maybe the improvements over the 20D might be beneath the skin?

Alex

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, not much new there either. Check out the specs here:

http://www.dpreview....canoneos30d.asp

The green asterisks mark new features. Very few green asterisks. Even fewer that an underwater photographer would care about. Maybe Canon decided that the current pixel count was adequate for the target population and wasn't worth the increase in noise additional pixes would add.

Mike

[MDB]

Disappointing...I was hoping that Canon would come out with a dslr to compete with the D200

[segal3]

I do find all the disappointment in this camera release amusing, after all, Canon did fix just about everything that was asked for when the 20D came out.

There were those lamenting the lack of spot metering in the 20D, now it's a 3.5% center spot on the 30D.

People wanted 1/2 or 1/3 stop ISO increases instead of the full stop on the 20D, it's there on the 30D.

Complaints about the small size of the LCD, especially after the release of the 5D, can no longer be applied to the 30D.

Additionally, the frame rate is selectable from 3fps or 5fps, and the RAW buffer has increased to 11.

To top it off, Canon included the 'Soft-touch electromagnetic release' shutter that is standard on its pro bodies.

All at the price almost $500 less than the closest competitor, the D200. Is an additional 2MP worth it? Your choice.

~Matt Segal

[Jolly]

Matt,

I share your point of view. The 20D just got better, called 30D. And the new price is great too. I don’t think 30D is a must-upgrade for every 20D owner, but people buying a new Canon DSLR in this range in the Canon line-up now simply get a better camera for an attractive price.

What more to expect from 20D’s successor? Bigger sensor size or significant higher pixel count (> 12MP)? That would lead into 5D’s market space …

IMO, from a topside shooter’s point of view, the 30D is a decent new camera. Only downside is that we underwater shooters expect major upgradings before investing into a new housing.

To me, the 17-55 IS USM release is interesting as it is the first bright EF-S zoom with f2.8. I think there is no more doubt that Canon will stick to EF-S / 1.6 crop in the 30D class for quite a while in the future (some rumourer predicted larger sensor for 30D). However, this lens would be very tempting to me if I would have an EF-S compatible camera.

Julian

[motionsync]

Everybody was waiting for a new canon in the pricerange of the nikon d200 and with more features that the cosmetic lift of canon 30d.
20d-30d is the same as 70-70s
But maybe Canon dont need to doit att all.
I mean they have the canon 5d now that is out and working just great and they have canon 1ds mkii with 16 MP.
So if one must come out with a new model thats nikon, funny but true.
Nikon have a d2x with 12MP. Thats all.

And with that d2x is competing with the Canon 1ds mkii & 5d...

I just have read a German photo magazin. they compare Nikon d200 with Canon 20D, what can i say....

I am a nikon user and still will be in the near future but lets talk serious, Canon have not the need to come out with a Nikon killer.. they just do it the way they like and as i see they do it right..

[ReefRoamer]

While the 30D announcement is nearly a non-event, it further confirms my belief that Canon is planning a follow-on to the 5D for about $1,999, sandwiching the Nikon D200 from above and below, pricing- and performance-wise. Probably this fall. I support this belief with the history of the Canon D30, followed by the D60, 10D, 20D and now 30D. The Canon FF-sensor cameras will likely follow the same trend line with follow-ons to the 5D. I love the competition, though, between Nikon and Canon.

[MikeO]

I do find all the disappointment in this camera release amusing, after all, Canon did fix just about everything that was asked for when the 20D came out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very bold statement, Matt

At the risk of amusing you further:

I look at it like this. Sure, Canon fixed the user-friendliness things people bitched about a year and a half ago when the camera came out. However, in all that time, they made no apparent attempt to improve image noise response, dynamic range, etc. -- the things one would hope that a year and a half of time in a supposedly rapidly advancing field might address. I'm not heartbroken by the lack of extra pixels because it might show a conscious decision to favor noise response over extra dots, but I think it not out of the realm of realistic expectation that some form of better processor or sensor advance might have been possible -- i.e. a better quality 8MP image. Yes, lowering the price is a nice touch and perhaps the comparison to the D200 is a bit specious. However, the fact they introduced a brand new model that is supposed to carry the prosumer torch for another year and a half with no improvement in image quality is still a little disheartening. At least to me.

Mike

Oh, and I note that they apparently didn't address the biggest complaint I've seen here -- the viewfinder doesn't appear to have grown any. Now that would have been a nice touch . . .

[dhaas]

Canon 30D - Don't forget 100,000 shutter life cycle.

Don't all of you guys plan on keeping your cameras for that many clicks?

Need to read more specs tomorrow, and I'm sure Ikelite will be able to house easily. Will likely also drive 20D prices down a bit more making great bargains for back up bodies to existing 20D users.

dhaas

[segal3]

At the risk of amusing you further

I always like a good laugh

Sure, Canon fixed the user-friendliness things people bitched about a year and a half ago when the camera came out. I'm not heartbroken by the lack of extra pixels because it might show a conscious decision to favor noise response over extra dots, but I think it not out of the realm of realistic expectation that some form of better processor or sensor advance might have been possible -- i.e. a better quality 8MP image.

I may be mistaken, but I recall some users (not necessarily on this board) switching to Nikon over the lack of spot metering. Now, when it's finally been added, it seems as if people could care less. I, for one, have no inherent need for it, but I really do envy the boost of the buffer from 5 RAW photos to 11 RAW photos. At that size, you're guaranteed a minimum of 2.2sec full burst @ 5fps, and more with a fast CF card (I'd fathom one could shoot nearly 3sec full burst, but the truth in that will come soon). Absolutely fantastic for non-u/w shooting (sports, action, wildlife, whatever).

Keep in mind also that Canon is not pricing this as the 'brand new model.' From what I gather, it's roughly $100 more than the (pre-time-of-30D-release)-new-20D price (that is, as of two days ago), not at all unreasonable for a camera with said upgrades. I can't say I have any need whatsoever to buy a 30D, but I see this as an indication, as a few others have mentioned in this thread, that those at Canon have a few more items up their sleeves that they're keeping quiet.

You have to look at it realistically - they aren't going to sell themselves short by undercutting sales of a higher-valued camera. I do agree about the viewfinder, but it seems that would have required more of a major body change. I'm sure it'll all become clear within the next year or so

~Matt Segal

[james]

Interesting thread indeed!!!

When the D200 was compared to the 5D, Nikon users were saying "Let's compare them, it's only a few megapixels difference."

Now the tables are turned a bit as the difference between 8 and 10 megapixels is even less.

Canon has improved upon the parts of their camera that could be considered inferior to the D200 and done it in short order. This camera will ship less than 3 months after the D200 started shipping. First time DSLR buyers will have a hard time deciding between the two.

I think the improvements make this a very good "competitor" to the D200 and at less cost to the consumer. Progress is good for us all.

Now as for the sensor performance - just because a few websites say that the camera uses the same sensor as the 20D, don't be too sure that the image quality will be the same, or even that the claim is true. The sensor fab may have improved considerably since the 20D was released.

Cheers
James

[dhaas]

James has a good point. Look at what Canon ALWAYS does in each succession of their consumer cameras. I wouldn't be surprised that when initial reviews are done the same 8.2 MP sensor has some noticeable image improvements. Whether they're fomr processing or whatever it wouldn't surprise me. As to teh difference still between the 30D and 5D, that's for individuals to justify in both cost and performance....

Only thing I'd have wished for in the 30D was a bit more "quasi-weather sealing" as Nikon claims on their D200. But of yet I haven't heard form anyone letting their D200 get splashed by a Tiger Shark at Tiger Beach on the swim step

Any volunteers on Eric / James upcoming trip?

All still incredible tools we have available to us at lower and lower costs....

dhaas

[bmyates]

...Now the tables are turned a bit as the difference between 8 and 10 megapixels is even less. . . Now as for the sensor performance - just because a few websites say that the camera uses the same sensor as the 20D, don't be too sure that the image quality will be the same, or even that the claim is true.  The sensor fab may have improved considerably since the 20D was released.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Frankly, I think the 20D sensor is GREAT, and even if the 30D does use the same one, that's not a terrible thing! For almost all purposes, the 20D's (and now 30D's) 8 megapixels are more than sufficient. I've actually seen some outstanding uw photos taken by people like David Haas -- and some stunning "large prints" (e.g., 11x16 inch) -- with the old Digital Rebel! The 20D is a significant advance over that camera's sensor, and it really is a fantastic camera. In fact (despite the fact that I myself fell victim to pixel envy and spend my next 10 years' photo budget for a 1DsMkII), the 20D is the camera I use 95% of the time above water, and I've been delighted with what it can do!

It seems that the 30D really could have called it a 20D-N or something similar -- not a major new release but simply an improved version of the 20D. If I were buying a brand new camera and housing, I'd undoubtedly go with the 30D, as it clearly has some not-insignificant enhancements over the 20D. But I agree that for those who already own a 20D, upgrading makes little sense. If you're truly using the 20D to its full potential, you'll be getting outstanding photos that should more than suffice until a more dramatically altered model comes out in a couple of years.