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HELP!!! - Exporting HD back to miniDV tape


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#1 col

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 08:10 PM

Just realised this should be in the "Editing, Post Production, and Sharing" forum - can someone move for me please?

Hi all

I'm trying to export a HD movie created in iMovie HD (iM-HD) (latest version) back onto a miniDV tape in DV format.

The A1 is connected to the Mac and shows that it's ready to accept the feed as it's displaying "DVin" on the screen. Go to "Share" in iM-HD and then the transfer should commence...NOTHING!!!! Pop-up boxes keep appearing saying that it cannot find any devices even though in another iM-HD window it says it's there.

Any ideas / fixes???? iM-HD has so many bugs!

Also, the movie has been created in PAL but converted to NTSC. Once I get the export going, will I have any other PAL-NTSC problems? e.g.NTSC has 4:3 screen ratio while HDV has 16:9??? Colours???

Most urgent is how do I get my video now back into the DV tape????

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance.

Col.

Edited by col, 26 April 2006 - 08:29 PM.

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#2 wagsy

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 09:32 PM

Col I use a PC but your problem could be that you have to encode it out to a DV file from the HDV timline before you can send DV to the camera. If you are sending it back in HDV then you have to render out a m2t file then send that back to the camera in HDV mode.

Some software can do this on the fly but its always best to render out the DV or m2t file from a HDV timline then send it to the camera. If you were editing in DV mode then you can send it back to the camera in DV straight from the timeline.

If it was PAL and you converted it to NTSC DV, the PAL A1 camera will not record the NTSC DV file.

If it was PALl and you converted to NTSC in HDV the canera will record it in HDV NTSC (60i) but it will not play smooth due to the extra frames it had to add in the conversion.

Reason being is Pal DV is 720/576
NTSC DV is 720 480

HDV PAL and NTSC is the same 1440/1080 just different frame rate 50i/60i so the camera will take it back a m2t file.
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#3 col

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 11:31 PM

Hi Wagsy

Thanks for the quick response!

I'm thinking my cry for help may be simpler than I first thought...

I have managed to convert the movie into NTSC DV through QT and have re-imported into iM-HD. Now when I try to export to back to the A1 I get the following error box:

Capture.jpg
"Cannot export to camera - Your Firewire camera is not powered on or is not available. This can also happen if you added or removed a device from Firewire. Please try again."

The A1 is definitely connected and powered up - I've unplugged/re-plugged many times to re-check. Is this a software bug or the NTSC / PAL conflict that you mentioned?
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#4 SimonSpear

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 04:15 AM

Maybe a dumb question, but do all PAL A1's have DV in enabled? I know a lot of camcorder models have DV in disabled for sale in the EU.... like I said it may be a dumb question, but just thought I'd mention it.

#5 wagsy

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 05:20 AM

Col
You cannot send back a encoded NTSC DV clip to a PAL DV/HDV camera and vise versa.
Not even with a Z1 as the Z1 only films in PAL or NTSC not VTR record mode.
Encode a Pal one and send it to the camera to see it that works.

You can however send back a NTSC HDV clip to a PAL HDV camera and vise versa however it will play abit jerky due to the exra frames the encoder made in making the NTSC HDV file. 50i-60i

But get this..
A PAL DV camera will record a NTSC signal from a NTSC camera in NTSC using firewire.
A NTSC DV camera will record a PAL signal from a PAL camera in Pal..

Confused yet :rolleyes:
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#6 wagsy

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 05:24 AM

Simon..the PAL A1 does record DV/HDV in....well it does in AUS....
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#7 col

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 06:17 AM

Yes way confused. :)

Basically I'm trying to submit a video for a competition in the US. They have requested NTSC DV format on tape.

Am I wasting my time?? :angry:

I have a spare PC-101, does that help?

How would you convert if in my situation???
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#8 wagsy

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 09:20 AM

If you had a NTSC DV camera you could send it to that and you would have a NTSC tape to send

Basically you are stuffed, like me here if you have only PAL cameras.
Pal is way better quality than NTSC anyhow.

If they are playing the tapes in a Sony Camera and the projection/TV screen can handle a PAL signal as well, then just send over a PAL tape as all Sony DV cameras can play each others tapes.

Maybe you can put the NTSC DV file onto a normal data DVD and sent it over. They can then drag the file off the disk and sent it to a camera over there. That is if you piece is not very long and will fit on a DVD. Maybe they can take NTSC DVD's as well.... they are a piece of cake to make from PAL.

It's just stupid in this day and age to have different formats and they are limiting themselves allot by only taking NTSC. I'm sure allot more people would send in. Whats the details on the competition.
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#9 col

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 03:15 PM

Hi Wagsy

Thanks for all your help and info!

Guess we're stuffed then - arhhhhh!!!!!

"Why I Dive" comp is from Scuba Diving mag (Apr 06 - page 8). Prize is a trip for 2 on an Explorer Ventures liveaboard.

Entries must be postmarked today (30 Apr). Max 3min video to be submitted on a mini-DV (NTSC) :) tape .

www.scubadiving.com/whyidive

Incidentally, are most American based comps this strict on format i.e. NTSC only?

ps. Still have the prob of not being able to export the dv from the Mac to the A1...must be a software bug!
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#10 wagsy

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 05:08 PM

Col
Go into the A1's touch screen menu in VTR mode and put it in DV mode and not Auto. You have 3 choices, Auto/DV/HDV it most prob be in Auto or HDV mode. See it that works.

Yep DV NTSC is what they want, it's stupid in this day and age to only accept one format. Why don't they just get a PAL DVD player or latop and use as they can play both PAL and NTSC DVD's and then ask people to submit a DVD...easy....and then it worldwide. Or as I said before, if they use a Sony camera then it will play both formats tapes anyhow :)

Here is some interesting facts
PAL is 25 fps (50i interlaced or 25p progressive)...easy to convert each way.
NTSC is 29.97 fps (59.94i interlaced and 23.97p progressive) Harder to convert as the numbers are not even. Something about the power (60hertz) thats used over there causes probs with full 30 and 60 rate so they had to cut it back abit but they call it 30i and 24p still.
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#11 col

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 06:26 PM

"Why don't they just get a PAL DVD player or latop and use as they can play both PAL and NTSC DVD's and then ask people to submit a DVD"

I fully agree Wagsy! That's definitely the way forward!

I'll make a last ditch effort at lunch with your suggestion.

I didn't really want to win a liveaboard trip for two anyway :) :angry:
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#12 wagsy

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Posted 28 April 2006 - 12:24 AM

Might of got seasick aswell. :)

We just got our replacement A1 from Sony today, the other one stuffed up. Will see if I can trick it into recording a NTSC DV file as it can play NTSC tapes.

Did you manage to get the Pal clip back to the camera yet?
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#13 SimonSpear

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Posted 28 April 2006 - 02:28 AM

Simon..the PAL A1 does record DV/HDV in....well it does in AUS....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Yeah we get royally screwed over here though - a lot of camcorders have the DV in disabled if they are sold in the EU as there is an extra 'tarrif' (TAX!) for manufacuters who want to sell with the DV in enabled - therefore it's only found on the real top end products. I'm not sure if the EU spec A1 is enabled or disabled.

You can of course buy from Asia on the grey market, but then you have all kinds of warranty problems if anything goes wrong. Where are you based and where did you get the camcorder from Col?

As for this whole NTSC only entires then I'm right with you guys - it's a plot to make sure only US and Japanese based filmakers win!!! (just kidding :) !)

Cheers, Simon

#14 MikeVeitch

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Posted 28 April 2006 - 04:01 AM

Although i shoot NTSC most of the time i agree with you guys. in the old days this may have meant something....

BUT!!!!!! with projecters etc an NTSC camera can play and output a PAL tape to a projecter!!!

F'in stupid! perhaps these people just don't realize this? send in a PAL tape and see if they notice....

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#15 col

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Posted 28 April 2006 - 03:07 PM

You can of course buy from Asia on the grey market, but then you have all kinds of warranty problems if anything goes wrong.  Where are you based and where did you get the camcorder from Col?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Simon - We're based in Indonesia at the mo' and got the A1 (DV enabled) from Singapore.

Wagsy - Still having probs outputting PAL from the Mac -> A1. Just got Final Cut Express HD so will try with that.

Mike - You're probably right - maybe they wouldn't have noticed! Next time...
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#16 Drew

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Posted 13 May 2006 - 07:16 PM

Ok to answer the above questions:

Imovie: Downconvert to DV via the export mode then transfer back to tape. There is no on the fly downconvert from HDV-DV except in camera.

A1 PAL: You can play NTSC tapes out to the computer with no problems via firewire.

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#17 DeanB

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Posted 13 May 2006 - 11:58 PM

OOOOHHH !!!

Thats what I like about Drew..So straight to the point..So efficient...So, almost military.

Welcome back Drew..

Dive safe

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#18 CamDiver

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 03:12 PM

Hi Col,
Regarding your question in your recent email. You cannot go straight from Mediastream to output to tape. Once converted you will have to save the file as .mov or whatever your preference is then re-import that to a reflective timeline of your preference and then, once rendered, print to video. I would imagine that if you just hook up the camera to your system you will be able to see the image on your camera viewfinder / monitor so just hit play on the timeline and record straight to your camera. I sometimes follow the print to tape options with FCP but invariably I just play direct from the timeline and capture to the camera direct.

Cheers,
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