19 replies to this topic

[shawnh]

Guys,
I have been working hard on my new site and getting to the stage of preparing video for posting on it. I am planning on providing both .wm9 and .mov versions for download. I am looking for advice on the following for each format:
Video Frame size?
File size target?
Compression settings?
Which compressors?
Hosting of video (do I need super highend host)?
Software that will make managing and updating video easier on the site?
Workflow for converting quite a few clips (i use Final Cut Studio latest version).

Thanks in advance.
Shawn

[maischan]

Hi Shawn,

I do not know if I can help in all the questions.

But I think first that you may need to consider 2 cases:

The video for light users (5 min max and using online streaming I think).

And the videos of offline usage you can download with a size the people can really manipulate. I think very large files will at the end give more problem to you and the target public. As a result I think teh people will give up on the download and you will miss your objective and maybe customer.

[wagsy]

Hi Shawn
For Large clips I use this:
1280/720 @4mbps wmv9 or 6mbps for better quality
124 meg demo clip

720/406 QT H.264 MOV @4mbps or 6 mbps for better quality135 meg demo clip
Both of the above are of the same clip to compare.


You can half the res and mbps for smaller looking files/clips.

Smaller versions that will play in real time with a slight buffer on broadband.
320/240 wmv @ 256kbps or 512kbps better quality.
Small 7 meg demo clip


WMV 9 always beats QT for file size/quality.
QT H.264 may be ait sharper than wmv but both soften up the image from original.

Could not go Whale Shakring today...the boat filled up with to many PAX B)

[shawnh]

Wags
Just what I was looking for...thanks a bunch. I'll give this a shot and see where I land.
Shawn

[wagsy]

Shawn, I did mess around with Divx as well but the user needs to have the player loaded. Realplayer format ...player is just full of adds, stay away from it although I did find a version that left out all the adds.

Everyone has WMV on a PC and they are very easy to make but I suppose you need to make some QT files for the MAC users as they cannopt play wmv9 as far as I know. They can play wmv8 and earlier if they have WMP installed.

But the best for size / quality is WMV.
1440/1080 just half it 720/540 and give it like 2 - 4mbps works good as well. Even half it again to 360/260 @500kbps etc etc...

WMP will start playing a clip once it has some buffer off a site or you can just have the user save the file first, download then play from any server. You can have the clips embeded and play in the webpage or just free files from links.

Streaming, you need to have a dedicated server provider that offers this function. People do this so the user does not end up with the file on their computer to play again and again.....but there is a ways around it if you want to keep the video or audio stream. DMR (Digital Media Rights) is a new way of making a video file last only a few days, but Im sure that will get hacked rather quick as well.

What's the link to your site?

[shawnh]

Wags,
This is incredibly helpful. I have some clipping and compressing to do now...well not some...tons!
Site is not live yet...racing to complete it but probalby 30 days out. I'll send a "hey check out my cool site" notice when it is up and let the folks here beat it up:)
Shawn

[wagsy]

Look forward to seeing some of ya stuff.

Here is some Floppy Shark demo's I made up of today.
Just look at the properties once you have downloaded them to see the specs.
Basically 256kbps -512kbps- 1mbps. This is 4.3 aspect video not 16.9

Small wmv 2megs

Bigger wmv 4.4

Bigger QT Sorenson 4.4

Biggest wmv 8.6

We have seen that Shark now for 10 years, and it has gown about half a meter in size???so they grow very slow indeed....he is called Stumpy.

[meekal]

for the first few question i went through the same thing a while back.... this might help you decide:

http://piddlefish.se...o-1minTest.html

on the hosting? i host my stuff on a crappy ol' Dell PC sitting in my spare bedroom, but i just started using these folks for another site:

http://www.ucvhost.com

ole cow..... 1000MB for $1/mo? can't beat that with a stick!

sollie, can't help ya on the last 2.... i don't do enough videos to have to 'worry' about it! (if only i dove enough to HAVE to worry about it...... ahhhhh... only in my dreams!)

[shawnh]

Guys, was offline for a few days and just saw this follow up. Really helpful stuff....i have some testing to do...will let you know what works.
thanks a bunch.
shawn

[Drew]

With QT, the MP4, Sorenson, On2 and H264 codecs are the cleanest. MP4 and Sorenson have lots of flexibility to minimize files.

As for WMV 10 for mac, you can download FLIPMac which enables WMV files to play under QT. It's still a little stuttery because WMV doesn't use quartz and demands the processor to do most of the work unlike QT, at least for a mac.

[WaterWorks]

Sorry but have to disagree with everything WMV-based......

maybe it's only my experience, but images are choppy it takes an age to buffer thigns first and then if one gets bored and decides to move the playhead on a little, you lose the video and have to start again from the top!

am I being a muppet here or is this a Mac / WMP problem......

Personally I am using QuickTime Pro and compressing video MASSIVELY (and almost blasphomously hard) down to 320 x 240 @ 130kbps, auto-keyframing, in order to make the following clip.......

http://www.waterwork...iz/pipefish.htm

My aim is to allow any viewer, 56K or 8MB broadband connection to start viewing the moment they click the video, this means less hassle for the viewer and then of course, more views!

let me know what you think.......

Chris

[WaterWorks]

forgot to add.....

using QT H.264 codec to ensure sharp images whilst maintaining small files......

AND!

I can only suggest to the masses that QT is THE industry badboy........... simple as that......

Put your vids up as Quicktme and tell people to download it from Apple if they don't have it....... with the number of ipod owners now adays almost doubling daily, that means that there are a hell of a lot more PCs out there with QT on them and their owners don't even know it......

Seeya!

[shawnh]

Please no responses from people on QT vs WMV. I edit on Mac, use QT but am fine with either for web deployment.

Wags, heres one for you.
I am compressing small video for the web out of Premiere (currently don't have flip4mac or my intel mac). I am using the following settings:
DV16:9 footage starting
Conversion:
wmv9
360x240 (320x240 even in 16:9 creates squished image)
188kbs
100 quality
29.97fps
2pass
no audio (or 8hz)

I am very happy with the file sizes and overall image. I am noticing distortion and blurring in the image with lots of motion in the scene (schooling fish, bubbles, etc). Any ideas how to improve this or do I just need to beef up the kbs and files sizes?

Shawn

[wagsy]

Shawn

188 kbps is low so it will look abit odd on fast moving fish or bubbles.
Higher and it will look better.

I would go with CBR not (VBR), just single pass as on a seocnd pass it tries to compress it even more on certain scences.

If you are using WMP to encode out set the apsect to 16.9 or same as project.
You need to click on the Video/ Audio and Audiences when the WMP windows opens to set it up right and then save that as a template.

I just made a few test ones and they came out oka with WMP. I mainly use Procoder though.

[Drew]

maybe it's only my experience, but images are choppy it takes an age to buffer thigns first and then if one gets bored and decides to move the playhead on a little, you lose the video and have to start again from the top!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Waterworks
That's because WMV is not optimized for Mac. Nothing to do with WMV for windows. And since WMV is standard in 95% of the computers out there and QT is installed in 20% only, I'd say WMV has the spread edge.

Wags, heres one for you.
I am compressing small video for the web out of Premiere (currently don't have flip4mac or my intel mac)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shawn
look into Autodesk Cleaner 6.5. Very powerful compressor software with multiplatform. A lot more control over files.

[WaterWorks]

Drew,

thank you for confirming that the individual softwares are optimised for their respective systems.

Can one presume that the recent move by Mac into the Intel world may start to ease out these Mac / PC quirks that they place upon the end user? Oh I hope so........ but maybe I'm far too optimistic.......

Cheers again, Drew

Chris

[wagsy]

Hey Drew
Here is something interesting.
I downloaded Autodesk Cleaner for the PC and installed it.

Next I fired up Premiere Pro with a HDV timeline and using a small frameserver program was able to encode straight from the HDV timeline to Cleaner in one go.

I'll make some more test files to see how it goes and compare the outputs to Procoder.

But the WMV HD 1280/720 file I made looks very good and the PAL Mpeg2.

[shawnh]

i'll have to check this out wags. what is the workflow between premiere and cleaner? plug-in? export? ???

[wagsy]

Shawn
Go and download this free little frameserver program.
Install it, maybe read the instructions.

FRAME SERVER HERE

Have fun

[WaterWorks]

Shawn,

Didn't have time to add yesterday - the reason video will be pixelating and degenerating when there are lots of bubbles / fish / movement in frame will also be due to a "keyframe rate" setting......

Compression engines work by comparing a pixel's present state to its last (at a predetermined rate of comparison). If the pixel is unchanged then the computer "forgets" about it and moves on, thereby freeing up memory space. (Next time you are watching a DVD or satellite channel, then move up close to the screen and check out a stationary background very closely (maybe on a news channel?). It is unrealistically, absolutely static, with only slight, jumpy variations in shades and shadows every second or so...)

So then, if the engine keyframes every second, it will be constantly freaking out the compression because, undoubtedly, the pixels have definitely changed in the last 25 (or 30) frames. If the engine is set to keyframe every 5 frames or so, then it will notice the difference far sooner and move along nice and smoothly....

Simply, if you have the option to turn up the frequency of keyframe occurence, then the compressor engine will be comparing pixels at a faster rate and therefore "noticing" and updating the changed pixels sooner....

Whatever compression engine you choose to use, it should have a "keyframe rate" setting. Try notching it up to maybe key every 5-10 frames, or so, or even try Auto-keyframing so that every time it "sees" the change it will work it into the final render....

This should make a world of difference to the problems that you get when the image gets busier.... and also enable you to stick to a nice, cyber-space-friendly low bitrate.

Chris