13 replies to this topic

[Rob Esaw]

I shoot a CP5K, and have upgraded my firmware to 1.7. This enables Raw image file capture. From here, I'm quite lost:

I see this file size is about 1/2 of Tiff. Is the quality as good? Is it much better than Jpeg? Why would I choose to use the Raw mode?

I also have heard that Raw does not sharpen, or otherwise manipulate or process the images. What does this mean to me? Do I have to open each image in Photoshop and manually apply white balance, sharpening, color optimisation, etc., to each image? Or can images be used as-is and only manipulated further if by choice?

What programs are able to open and manipulate Raw photos? I have been using my XP photo wizard to import images rather than the Nikon software, but after taking some .nef images, XP doesn't seem to recognize the files on the camera.

I know, lots of questions. Any answers would be super.

Rob.

[Lyin Fish]

G'day Rob,

I use the D100--not that familiar with the CPK-but with the Nikon Raw NEF files this is the way they work.

A : Forget the Tiff--shoot Raw THEN save as Tiff or Jpeg when you are satisfied.

B:providing you have NONE clicked on your commands no manipulation will occur--leave it at NONE anyway.

C:The nikon RAW NEF's will not open in Pshop directly--it goes through the Nikon View then into Pshop-- I suggest you download www. Bibble.com and use their RAW file software--the Nikon is a bad joke!
You can use as is or do WB/Exp modding in Nikon View--in Pshop tho you should do Levels /Color Balance/ Sat/Sharpen.

D:The Raw files are 16bit--you must convert to 8 bit to do outside of the above corrections( leave at 16 if you can tho!)

E:Like I said get Bibble for the Raw program--it's at present the best for the Nik.

F: Nikon are locking some strange things in their Digital items (no TTL on my camera UW/NO X sync on the body!)-either XP does not do 12-16 bit files or you must have to use the Nik alogrithem to open them I.E Nik View(Ugh!)
Bibble will sort that out.

Yes use the Raw--it contains ooodles more information--use Jpeg when you want to post net/postcards /etc.

Good Shooting,
Lyin Fish:

[craig]

I'll add that Bibble's white balance is quite good. I save from Bibble in 16 bit TIFF's, then convert later. Doing that improves the results if you have to adjust levels.

Definitely use RAW!

[markh]

TIFF v RAW. This confuses a lot of people.

In simple terms RAW is the real output from the camera and TIFF is an interpolated picture.

With Tiff you lose both bit depth and also spatial accuracy. In addition, TIFF images are processed in-camera, while RAW is literally the raw image.

Why use RAW? It gives you deeper bit depth for higher overall image quality and a smaller file, roughly half the size of an equivalent TIFF.

More specifically RAW is compressed but it's compression without dataloss unlike Jpeg. Lets try and make a comparison with a ZIP file, an expanation I saw elsewhere which I believe helps understanding. RAW is like a ZIP, as part of the file is compressed (the informationless) which results in a non dataloss file which can then be uncompressed to TIFF.

On the other hand Jpeg is both compressed and converted with an algorythm which takes some "unimportant" information out from the picture data.


Hope this helps

Mark

[Arnon_Ayal]

my 2 cent about RAW:

As it said before the RAW format save the raw data from the camera's sensor before any manipulation by the camera.
It give you the option to manipulate the White Balance (WB) operation that the camera do also later when you convert the data to JPG ot TIFF, that way you can chose the best WB for the spesific shot, if you shot in TIFF or JPG mode the data is saved with the WB that was set at the shoting time and you cannot change it later.
Its also give you the option to play with the saturation & sharpen manipulations of the camera after the shot.

The considerations why to use JPG and not RAW:
1. Its take less space.
2. The converting from RAW to JPG takes a lot of time.

[davephdv]

With my CP 5000 I continue to shoot Jpeg. The raw I believe isn't a true raw, but an 8 bit image interpolated to 12 bit. I need to study it some more. The raw mode for the D100 is mandatory. It is great to try all the WB settings after the shot.

[gothamboy2000]

Hmm... Okay, the raw formats are a little more complicated than that...

Raw is very different from TIFF. TIFF is file format while Raw (depending on which manufacturer you're talking about but they do generally the same thing) captures the information into a whole different world of format. I'd need a Photoshop engineer to translate exactly what it does but the important point is that adjustments can be made to the file BEFORE translation out of their color space. (What they're doing is even a bit more advanced than 16-bit because of where they put a bulk of the data.)

As a few people have hinted, raw formats do not currently open directly into Photoshop but we have publicly shown technology that suggests this might be possible soon.

Stay tuned...

Daniel Brown
Sr. Evangelist, DV and Digital Imaging
Adobe Systems Inc.

[markh]

Daniel,

Will Adobe be getting to grips with the ORF (Oly RAW files) soon also?

Mark

[markh]

Another question (for anyone who knows)

When saving my ORF (Oly RAW) files as TIFF files, will there be ANY quality degradation. One I am not certain of.

Mark

[randapex]

Mark, or anyone for that matter. When you shoot RAW and then adjust the white balance later, which setting seems to work best? I've often planned on shooting the same subject U/W and change the white balance on each shot. Never got around to it. And since I plan on keeping the C4040 'til the Cows come home, (Sorry Bob) I'd like to know what you prefer.
Thanks,
Rand

[craig]

I use Bibble and generally use the one-click white balance function it provides. If the shot is too far gone for that, I white balance manually in PS after channel-blending.

[randapex]

Hi Craig. Sorry, Brain f@rt. Made an assumption that you were given the same options in the editing software, ie: cloudy, sun etc. I know that's not the case. Disregard.

[yahsemtough]

You are right Rand, Bob knows all about the cows coming home.

[Rob Esaw]

Wow. Thanks guys, I think. I'll have many more questions soon...

I guess with my CP5k I'll continue with jpegs, to keep my life simpler, for the time-being, but will check out Bibble, and see what happens.