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KODAK 14n & Leica Digilux 1


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#1 Cybergoldfish

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 04:48 AM

The new Kodak 14n will be in the shops by next month I was informed yesterday. The UK price will be £4225.00 for the body only. I was pleased to see that it comes with a 10-pin remote facility too. The Singapore/HK price will be 30% of that.

Although it has less features than the EOS 1Ds it is equally rugged, half the weight and far less ugly. Housings may be more practical too, taking some advantages off the rc port.

At full res TIFF files arrive at 41 Mb!

ISO speeds 80 - 800 in 1/3 increments and D-TTL flash control. Multiple memory options etc.



The new Leica Digilux 1 (based around TOR Panasonic electronics) looks a great package: Classic Leica looks - Easy to house and comes with an incredibly sharp Leica zoom lens. It focuses down to just 1 cm.
The rear LD screen is an unbelievable 2.5" complete with removable shade. It comes with a 64 Mb SD card Li rechargeable battery kit and hotshoe.
The images I have seen in varying conditions are amonst the best digital I have yet seen and it's only 4 Mp's!

Cost in UK is £749.00 Singapore 30% less. Website - ]Here


KODAK:
SITE

#2 scorpio_fish

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 05:35 AM

Although it has less features than the EOS 1Ds it is equally rugged



It is not equally rugged. The Canon is based upon the pro EOS 1 body, far more rugged and more environmentally sealed, whereas the Kodak is based upon the Nikon N80. Of course, it doesn't really matter for u/w shooters.

U.S. street prices for the Kodak should be $4995 without anti-aliasing filter. Still out of range for most of us. Heck if I wanted to spend that much, I would have bought a D1X a year and a half ago.
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#3 Cybergoldfish

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 05:43 AM

It has the same type of weatherproofed/environmentally sealed Magnesium alloy body as that of the Canon, whether it was based on the 80 or not... And yes it does matter underwater as it could mean life or death for the camera and the trip if there's a minor housing leak!

It also takes Nikon F mount lenses.

Hey, don't get upset at me: I didn't design or price it!

#4 donauw

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 06:50 AM

Aside from the better resolution - and I question that it will make for better quality work for most of us, who don't enlarge to poster size (and the problems with storage media it creates) - what will be the advantage over a D100 when the Nikon 12 - 24 mm becomes available?

Will housings be available for the Kodak? I expect that only limited numbers of us will be buying the camera.

Just as the Nikon 90 series became the UW "workhorse" for film, with multiple housing options available, I suspect the D100 will come to dominate the digital UW SLR market for a few years.

Regards,

Don Dixon
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#5 Cybergoldfish

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 07:05 AM

Hi Don,

I think we are looking at greater dynamic range in the larger chips - especially using CMOS over CCD.

I think too the D100 will be affected the same way as every other camera in its class and it will take more than 1 lens to save it from the inevitable, that's if it ever gets released. The 90's will be around a lot longer than the D100 underwater.

With the price of the Fuji S2 dropping inline with the D100 I think many Nikon film users would opt for the S2 anyway as it has more facilities (like TTL) and less noise throughout the ISO range.

Sales of the S2 & D60 are currently 3 times that of the D100 (according to Digicam buyer).

As a result of the full chip Kodak (like other FFc's) will have the choice of over 200 lenses at its disposal!

#6 Cybergoldfish

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 09:18 AM

Although it has less features than the EOS 1Ds it is equally rugged


It is not equally rugged. The Canon is based upon the pro EOS 1 body, far more rugged and more environmentally sealed, whereas the Kodak is based upon the Nikon N80. Of course, it doesn't really matter for u/w shooters.

Regarding the above quote:

This is from Kodak:-

KODAK PROFESSIONAL DCS Pro 14n Digital Camera
Questions and Answers

Will the DCS Pro 14n digital camera be available as originally anticipated?
Customer availability of the acclaimed Kodak Professional DCS Pro 14n Digital Camera, scheduled for mid-January, is being rescheduled to mid-February. Kodak Professional does have sample images taken with the DCS Pro 14n camera available for download. The rescheduling is necessary to make absolutely certain the 14n is built to the exact, demanding specifications of Kodak and its customers. "We regret the delay," said Madhav Mehra, General Manager, Digital Cameras, Kodak Professional. "But we believe this ground-breaking, innovative camera is well worth the wait. We're very pleased by the many orders we have received to date, and we're working to ensure our customers' absolute satisfaction."
Is there a problem?
The DCS Pro 14n digital camera is a complex piece of technology that is more a complete product invention than it is an incremental product improvement. It looks like we'll miss our original availability target by only a month or so, which is not a great deal of time, all things considered.
But if you weren't ready, why did you announce the DCS Pro 14n digital camera at Photokina?
Once again, it looks like we'll miss our announced availability date only by a month or so. It's also useful to remember that companies are continually trying to balance their development schedules and their marketing schedules. Photokina is a very important show and we believe it was important - both for Kodak and for the marketplace - to announce our new camera in that venue.
What is the KODAK PROFESSIONAL DCS Pro 14n Digital Camera and how does it differ from the DCS 760?
The DCS Pro 14n is the latest in six generations of single-lens-reflex KODAK PROFESSIONAL Digital Cameras and full digital workflow systems. The DCS Pro 14n is dramatically different from the KODAK PROFESSIONAL DCS 760 Digital Camera. The Pro 14n is a feature-rich digital SLR with a new electronics architecture, new camera body, and a full-size CMOS image sensor.


What is the difference between the CMOS sensor and the DCS 760 sensor?
The DCS 760 uses a traditional CCD image sensor with 6-million-pixel resolution. The DCS Pro 14n uses the newest professional CMOS sensor technology available and has 13.9 million total pixels. CMOS and CCD image-sensor technologies are distinctly different. CCD image sensors are (electron) charge-coupled devices that require very sophisticated and power-hungry electronics to operate, and due to the amount of support electronics, take up more space and power inside the camera. CMOS image sensors incorporate light-sensing technology that allows for charge conversion right inside the pixel, therefore dramatically reducing support electronics and power consumption. The small size of the DCS Pro 14n, even though it incorporates a full 35 mm area sensor, was achieved through the use of CMOS sensor technology.


Does the DCS Pro 14n have a NIKON Camera body?
Nikon has custom-manufactured the camera body components for Kodak Professional. While the DCS Pro 14n does share features and components with some of Nikon's own cameras, this particular body is custom-manufactured for Kodak. Kodak enhanced the body with additional professional features, such as a vertical "smart" shutter release, magnesium alloy encasements, and a 10-pin remote release terminal compatible with most Nikon accessories.


Can NIKON Lenses be used with the DCS Pro 14n?
Yes. The DCS Pro 14n uses the NIKON F Mount and supports the full line of current NIKON Lenses.


What other features does the DCS Pro 14n offer?
In addition to the new image sensor, the DCS Pro 14n has a wide range of professional features that ensure superior image quality and performance.
High resolutionó13.9 million total pixels, producing an image size of 4536 x 3024 pixels.
Full-size 35 mm frame sensor (24 mm by 36 mm image area).
Selectable, variable-resolution raw files.
Selectable ISOs in 1/3-stop increments.
Basic- and advanced-mode operations.
12 MB-a-second image transferóabout 3 to 4 times faster than the current IEEE 1394 interface.
A large, bright LCD panel for image analysis.
D-TTL-enabled hotshoe and pop-up flash.
A sensor that detects camera orientation +/- 90 degrees.
"Picture Protection" including KODAK PROFESSIONAL Extended Range Imaging Technology.


What is variable resolution?
For the first time, you can select the resolution you want for RAW files. Resolution ISO Range
100% (~13.6 MP) 80 - 640
67% (~6.1 MP) 80 - 800
50% (~3.4 MP) 80 - 800

How do you get variable resolution from RAW files?
Variable resolution for RAW files is a unique capability offered in the DCS Pro 14n. To achieve "true" RAW status for the lower resolution image files, the entire 13.9 MP resolution is read off the sensor at 12 bits dynamic range. Then a proprietary image-processing algorithm "interpolates and resamples" the high resolution into a lower resolution while keeping the 12-bit dynamic range. The resulting image is specially color encoded and losslessly compressed to reduce the file size. This technique achieves high quality and low artifacts, while reducing the native resolution. The powerful DSP engine in the DCS Pro 14n performs all this processing in-camera, so you can benefit from more images per storage card for assignments that do not require the highest resolution.


Does the DCS Pro 14n use an anti-aliasing filter?
No. The DCS Pro 14n does not have an anti-aliasing filter. Consequently, the DCS Pro 14n yields images that are sharper than most other digital SLR cameras. The resolution of the Pro 14n is so high that aliasing artifacts are generally not an issue for most applications.


Who will benefit most from the DCS Pro 14n?
All professional photographers who require high-resolution and high-quality digital images, including portrait, social, wedding, school, event, and commercial photographers, will benefit most.


What is the function of the Basic Mode?
The Basic Mode makes digital photography easy for anyone who wants to take it out of the box and shoot, without extensive training or experience.


What is "Picture Protection?"
Picture Protection is included in our entire line of KODAK PROFESSIONAL DCS Digital Cameras. It offers a variety of workflow features that include post-shot exposure compensation, white balance corrections, file recovery, dual card storage, and KODAK PROFESSIONAL Extended Range Imaging Technology (ERI). ERI gives you image files that work as standard JPEGs but include the dynamic range and color gamut of raw, 12-bit, DCR camera files.


What's included in the box with the DCS Pro 14n?
The DCS Pro 14n Digital Camera ships with hand strap, neck strap, body cap, DC Power Module, a custom rechargeable Li-Ion battery, and charger/AC Adapter, printed user guide (English), documentation (localized in 8 languages) on CD, and localized software CDs for Photo Desk and Camera Manager, warranty card, and service information.


Is there an IEEE 1394 cable available for use with the camera?
Yes, and you can purchase it separately.


What is the focal length magnification?
Since the DCS Pro 14n has a full 35 mm film size sensor, the focal length magnification is 1. This means that 35 mm lenses operate as they would with film and will show the same full image that the lens was designed to image.


Does the DCS Pro 14n offer an external video output?
Yes, user selectable NTSC and PAL video formats are supported by the video connection.
In NTSC mode, the color LCD and the video output are enabled simultaneously.
In PAL mode, simultaneous operation is not supported.


The DCS Pro 14n has a top end ISO of 800, but the DCS 760 only went to 400. How was this improvement accomplished?
The DCS Pro 14n camera is based on a significantly different sensor and electronics architecture that makes use of more advanced technology to enable this top-end ISO improvement.


Will a Software Development Kit (SDK) be available?
Yes, the SDK will be available at no charge on the Kodak web site. The SDK for the DCS Pro 14n will incorporate significantly improved functionality and, therefore, will differ from that of previous DCS models. Developer support for the new SDK will also be provided via the Kodak Website


Are there any plans to market an EOS-mount version of the DCS Pro 14n?
Kodak currently is not publicly discussing any plans to create a CANON EOS-mount version of the DCS Pro 14n Digital Camera.


What is Nikon's role in the development of the DCS Pro 14n?
Nikon designed and supplies the lens mount and photographic body architecture for this camera.


Will Nikon also sell the 14n?
No, the DCS Pro 14n Digital Camera is exclusively a Kodak Professional product.


What about camera warranty, service programs?
The DCS Pro 14n will have a one-year warranty, with service provided at Kodak Service Centers worldwide. Various extended warranty programs are available through dealers of KODAK Products on a country-by-country basis.


What is the suggested price of the DCS Pro 14n?
Please contact a local authorized dealer of KODAK PROFESSIONAL DCS Digital Cameras for detailed pricing information.


Where and when will the DCS Pro 14n be available?
The DCS Pro 14n is planned to be available from authorized dealers of KODAK PROFESSIONAL Products in mid February, 2003.

#7 Marc Furth

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 04:02 PM

I Ďve had my Kodak Pro 14 N on order from Ritz since Oct. 9, 2002. Itís been real disappointment every time theirís another delay in its release.

Iíve been following another thread at Steveís DigiCams forum and complaining about the long wait. His last comment to mine was..

I'd definitely say it is worth the wait to see what shows up in March at PMA 2003. That's all I can say for now
Steve

My guess is Steve knows something we donít, and is recommending I wait to see whatís going to be released this March ?

Iím going to have to make my mind up soon, Iím number 9 in the cue at Ritz and Iím sure to get it if itís released by February 15,

Now if Kodak would only do me a favor and release it another month late, fat chance.

Marc
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#8 james

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 04:13 PM

Hi Marc,

Steve (and Phil, et al) get the cameras before consumers. So I fear that Steve's comment it BOTH a "hang in there" message, as well as some negative feedback about the Kodak...:-(

Cheers
James
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#9 Marc Furth

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 04:26 PM

Hi James,
Your probably right, but Steve seldom makes any recommendation in this manner. Heís site is supported by Ritz and I believe he would not make such a remark if not warranted.

Itís sort of bitting the hand that feeds you !

Marc
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#10 james

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 08:03 PM

Fuji/Nikon/Kodak usually send the cameras directly to the reviews - so Ritz doesn't come to play in this.

For example, Thom Hogan had the Fuji S2 and the D100 months before they were available to consumers. The reviewers make suggestions on how to improve the camera functions, firmware, etc and pass them on to the manufacturer.

FWIW, Kodak 14n's have been circulating for a while.

Cheers
James
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#11 Marc Furth

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 09:23 PM

Hi James,
Steveís site is backed by Ritz with advertisements or how Steve says, ďRitzCamera.com is our Premier e-Retail PartnerĒ
Partner means profiting in some way or another to me.

Itís taking business away from Ritz telling me not to buy the Kodak and telling me to wait till I see whatís coming in March. Steve was very much aware that I had my order in with Ritz.

Thatís why I thought it was strange that he had made such a strong public comment. He rarely make recommendation on his camera reviews and just gives the facts as he sees them.

Itís better to stay some what neutral and not piss off any potential advertisers, or partners ?

Marc
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#12 Cybergoldfish

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Posted 27 January 2003 - 04:42 AM

I can understand your dilemma: This is certainly the most fickle of industries to be tied to the end of. Likened to that dangling carrot!

#13 james

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Posted 27 January 2003 - 05:43 AM

Hi Marc,

That's not my point though. If Steve needs to be careful not to "piss off" anyone, it's Kodak, not Ritz Camera. Kodak is probably who he signed a non-disclosure agreement with if anyone, not Ritz.

Look at it this way - go to the Ritz site. They are selling the Kodak, the Fuji, the Nikon, etc. So if you change your mind and decide to go w/ a new Canon or Nikon - Ritz still makes money, 'cause I'm guessing you'd still buy it through them. Am I right?

With that said, I can totally see your disappointment with the Kodak coming in so late. The announced this camera at Photokina months and months ago. I'm still really interested and I'd love to rent one when they come out.

Cheers
James
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#14 Cybergoldfish

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Posted 27 January 2003 - 07:19 AM

I was thinking about you when I got the info - Its a super-upgrade for the S2! The thing I like about it is the camera software can be upgraded FOC from the Kodak site.


PS My wife said you can't say "piss" as it's a family site! (£!$$)

#15 Cybergoldfish

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Posted 27 January 2003 - 07:43 AM

Apart from the Kodak, has anyone had a look or feel of the Leica yet?

I am very interested in this as a pocket-back-up.

#16 Marc Furth

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Posted 27 January 2003 - 03:27 PM

Would you know if the Kodak Pro 14N would be backward compatible with the SB 28 in TTL mode ?

Marc
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#17 james

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Posted 27 January 2003 - 03:30 PM

AFAIK, it is only compatible with D-TTL compatible strobes - of which there are 3:

SB28DX, SB80DX, and SB50DX

Cheers
James
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#18 Marc Furth

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Posted 27 January 2003 - 03:52 PM

Would you know if the hot shoes has the same number of connections, or more ?
Would you still be able to use the SB 28 in a manual mode ?

Marc
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#19 james

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Posted 27 January 2003 - 04:02 PM

Oh, sorry. The hotshoe is the same as the one on the Nikon N80. I can look at mine tonight if you want to. I think you can use the SB28 in manual or "auto" mode Marc.

Cheers
James
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#20 wetpixel

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 12:12 PM

I like their ingenious "raw" format, which stores the excess raw information in the jpg header, so you can use the file as a normal jpg as well.
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