
Tipping is in the culture
#241
Posted 22 July 2011 - 02:20 PM
Steve
ps. Agreed, an interesting PhD theses might be in the calling
www.kenstone.net
www.lafcpug.org
Steve Douglas
steve-sharksdelight@cox.net
I have worked as an unpaid reviewer for the editing websites since 2002. Most all hardware and software is sent to me free of charge, however, in no way am I obligated to provide either positive or negative evaluations. Any suggestions I make regarding products are a result of my own, completely, personal opinions and experiences with said products.
#242
Posted 24 July 2011 - 02:27 AM
What a great way to think. A returning customer is the best tip a business could ever wish for.
Stew
I once heard someone say that a happy customer will tell 2 friends how good there experiance was but an unhappy customer will tell 10 friends how bad the service was.
The maths are pretty simple on that one me thinks.
Maybe people need to start looking at what they do have instead of what they don't have.
Cheers Pete.
Owner of Down Under Aquatic Imaging.
www.duai.com.au
#243
Posted 24 July 2011 - 10:36 AM

AND, a lot of us don't even have a salary for taking these pictures. so giving a tip at each gallery look is a huge increases of the money we make.
Maybe this is silly, BUT, it probably explain a lot : if you get tips, you give tips. In the U.S. the system is made for the money to move a lot between people. In other countries, you do your work, and one get money ONCE a month, and this is all what you will get, ever. you keep it for as few things as you can.
Just look at the number of cofee shops and all that in a big U.S. city compared to any european big city. American uses their money for anything, European mostly keeps it for "important" things. Just a difference of system, not judging

#244
Posted 25 July 2011 - 03:42 AM
Just look at the number of cofee shops and all that in a big U.S. city compared to any european big city. American uses their money for anything, European mostly keeps it for "important" things. Just a difference of system, not judging
Well it's also about having the disposable income due to lower taxes, less protective labor laws, general propensity to work more hours per week than the Euro counterparts etc etc. I've alway thought the point of this thread was to point out once you leave your country, your rules don't always apply in the foreign place.
Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."
"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.
#245
Posted 25 July 2011 - 04:15 AM

In the US tipping is no longer a 'culture' thing. It once was, but not anymore. In many other places in the world it still is (but slowly changing as well). In the US it's about companies having been allowed to lower wages significantly below minimum wage, arguing that tipping should be seen as part of their wages. This switched the dynamics of tipping. Instead of being appreciated, it's now the norm, and not tipping is seen as highly offensive. People have actually grown to find this normal. That shows the power of the company in the US. They force you to pay their employees wages twice (product and tipping) and have successfully psychotrained you to defend this practice vigorously. Hats off

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#246
Posted 25 July 2011 - 04:27 AM

I agree and it's BS. I've never been trained well for that, having lived in so many countries from young. I guess I'm not a good gauge for the US citizens!

I was in Capetown with some friends at a restaurant, and thanks to some bad iPhone math, my friend miscalculated the tip to about 8%. The "waitron" actually told us it was low by 2%.
The good news is that the dive industry in South Africa don't expect a 10% tip... but they do take getting paid promptly seriously!

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."
"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.
#247
Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:31 AM
#248
Posted 26 July 2011 - 09:08 AM
Figure what you'd normally tip for meals for 10 days. Think about breakfast, lunch and dinner the tip you'd leave can easily come to $10 a day. Ten days gets you $100. Throw in a couple of drinks and it would be more.

If you figure you'd slip the dive guide at the resort a ten for helping you get that great shot, you come up with 40 a day for 4 dives off the boat. Seven days of diving comes to about $280.
Would you tip the captain and crew of a boat that took you out for a day on the water? Thinking $200 a day even at just 10% you'd get $200 for ten days.
If you add that up you would have spent somewhere around $580 in tips for my scenario at a resort. You're $420 number doesn't look so out of line.
This doesn't even take into account if someone goes far beyond your expectations and you want to thank them with a little extra. I remember writing to Peter Hughes years ago and asking why he split the tips on his boats evenly. I thought the dive masters/guides should get more than the lady who cleans the rooms. He was adamant that everyone on board had an equally important role in making the quests happy. He knows what he's doing so I couldn't argue. My answer was to send my favorite guide a birthday card when I got home with a little present inside.
Cheers,
Steve
The Fin Foundation
HSWImages.com My Images on Flikr
Canon 5D Mk III, 7D & 40D, 60mm, 100mm, 17-40L, Tokina 10-17, Nauticam 7D, Sea & Sea MDX-40D YS-250's ULCS arms, Lightroom
#249
Posted 26 July 2011 - 09:11 AM
If you figure you'd slip the dive guide at the resort a ten for helping you get that great shot, you come up with 40 a day for 4 dives off the boat. Seven days of diving comes to about $280.
I wish I had customers like you when I was a dive guide
Likes macro
#250
Posted 26 July 2011 - 09:29 AM
I wish I had customers like you when I was a dive guide

I understand we're all different and our cultures affect the way we think about things. If I went out for a two dive day trip, say off Florida or someplace typical I'd normally leave a $20 for the crew assuming they were busting their butts to help me have a great day.
Cheers,
Steve
The Fin Foundation
HSWImages.com My Images on Flikr
Canon 5D Mk III, 7D & 40D, 60mm, 100mm, 17-40L, Tokina 10-17, Nauticam 7D, Sea & Sea MDX-40D YS-250's ULCS arms, Lightroom
#251
Posted 26 July 2011 - 10:09 AM
This past spring we went and stayed in Cayman Brac at the Brac Reef Beach Resort. The resort is basically brand new. The cost for the week for the rooms, all three meals (and the food was truly outstanding), 17 dives, three alcoholic beverages per day, taxes and service charges (tips) was right at $1450 or so. The only thing not included in that price is tips for the dive crew. The diving there is valet service diving. You sit at the back of the boat and they bring your BC, cameras, etc. and you just slip everything on and fall in the water. At the end of the dive they take your tank/bc and switch to a new tank. They rinse your gear at the end of the day. So these guys work hard. They have a sheet in the dive office that "recommends" a tip for the week of $100 per diver for a weeks package. Now Kim and I did tip more than that because they do work really hard and are a great group. And like I said, tips for the restaurant and cleaning staff at the resort were included in the $1450 price and they even tell you tips are not expected. Again, we did leave extra for those folks but when you total it up it didn't come close to $400 per person.
I guess it really boils down to a personal thing. I usually end up tipping on the high side but still it needs to be within reason.
#252
Posted 26 July 2011 - 10:48 AM
I have to disagree with that assessment. It's easy for the customer relations people to build rapport. I think the engineer who keeps the boat running, the cleaners who make sure my room is in great shape, the cook who feeds me well etc all deserve to have a fair share of the tip. I'm with Hughes on this one. I think the front line person represents the whole crew.
[font="Calibri"][size=3]This doesn't even take into account if someone goes far beyond your expectations and you want to thank them with a little extra. I remember writing to Peter Hughes years ago and asking why he split the tips on his boats evenly. I thought the dive masters/guides should get more than the lady who cleans the rooms. He was adamant that everyone on board had an equally important role in making the quests happy. He knows what he's doing so I couldn't argue. My answer was to send my favorite guide a birthday card when I got home with a little present inside.
Cheers,
Steve
Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."
"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.
#253
Posted 26 July 2011 - 12:09 PM
Cheers,
Steve
The Fin Foundation
HSWImages.com My Images on Flikr
Canon 5D Mk III, 7D & 40D, 60mm, 100mm, 17-40L, Tokina 10-17, Nauticam 7D, Sea & Sea MDX-40D YS-250's ULCS arms, Lightroom
#254
Posted 26 July 2011 - 12:10 PM
Remember this is only in certain restricted service professions like restaurants, others have to pay at least minimum wage. This is the case not only for large franchise type restaurant companies but also your little mom and pop restaurants. One of the first things that struck me when I moved to America, was how much better the service was in American restaurants than in European or South African restaurants where I am from. I have to believe that is largely due to the incentive of tips, and not due to innate superiority of American waiters over Europeans.Heh Drew, except for dive operations, who seem to all have adopted the american tipping culture no matter what country they're in
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In the US tipping is no longer a 'culture' thing. It once was, but not anymore. In many other places in the world it still is (but slowly changing as well). In the US it's about companies having been allowed to lower wages significantly below minimum wage, arguing that tipping should be seen as part of their wages. This switched the dynamics of tipping. Instead of being appreciated, it's now the norm, and not tipping is seen as highly offensive. People have actually grown to find this normal. That shows the power of the company in the US. They force you to pay their employees wages twice (product and tipping) and have successfully psychotrained you to defend this practice vigorously. Hats off
Wow, what a concept! How surprising people are motivated to work harder if they know there's more money in it for them, and not to work so hard if they are going to earn the same no matter what. Yeah I'm sure it's only ugly Americans who think like that, everybody else gives 100% just for a fair wage.

#255
Posted 26 July 2011 - 12:44 PM
Leaving tomorrow and will be at the airport at 8:40. There is a huge difference between diving off a resort and doing a liveaboad yet tipping is part and parcel of the US culture regardless whether other societies tip or not. That said, tip what you think is best; some can afford more than others plain and simple. Peter was correct, the cleaning people and the cooks all contribute to your good times. I completely understand his point. Never the less, if some one is extra special, slipping them a little something extra doesn't hurt.
Only once, on the Galapagos Aggressor with only 6 guests on board did I not tip. The crew were just plain lazy as all get up. The one crewman who was helpful and went out of his way I had come to my cabin on the last day and I tipped him privately.
That said, what you tip is your business and should be kept private. The only thing I don't like about the Aggressor in C.R. is that each person comes up individually to settle accounts including the tip, so as soon as you run your card through the machine, the captain sees right away what you've tipped. This can make the person who can't afford as much feel badly. Another reason why I prefer my guests just to give me their tips to put in a collective envelope so it stays private as to what you did or didn't tip.
Didn't know your son was a trip leader and got tips. In all these years, rarely has a tip been thrown my way, never even think of it any more. When I owned a dive shop, tourist divers who hired me to take them out would sometimes tip me but, more often than not, didn't.
Steve
www.kenstone.net
www.lafcpug.org
Steve Douglas
steve-sharksdelight@cox.net
I have worked as an unpaid reviewer for the editing websites since 2002. Most all hardware and software is sent to me free of charge, however, in no way am I obligated to provide either positive or negative evaluations. Any suggestions I make regarding products are a result of my own, completely, personal opinions and experiences with said products.
#256
Posted 26 July 2011 - 01:46 PM
Bill
Bill
Canon 7d, Nauticam, Lots of glass, Olympus OMD-EM5, Nauticam, 60 macro, 45 macro, 8 mm fisheye, Inon, S&S, Athena Strobes plus lots of fiddly bits.
www.blueviews.net
#257
Posted 27 July 2011 - 03:26 AM
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#258
Posted 23 September 2011 - 09:38 AM
Steve
www.kenstone.net
www.lafcpug.org
Steve Douglas
steve-sharksdelight@cox.net
I have worked as an unpaid reviewer for the editing websites since 2002. Most all hardware and software is sent to me free of charge, however, in no way am I obligated to provide either positive or negative evaluations. Any suggestions I make regarding products are a result of my own, completely, personal opinions and experiences with said products.
#259
Posted 03 October 2011 - 01:41 AM
Cheers Pete.
Owner of Down Under Aquatic Imaging.
www.duai.com.au
#260
Posted 03 October 2011 - 07:40 AM
Vanuatu,Where in the world is tipping not expected, even from Americans? Are there places where tipping would be an insult?
Steve
New Caledonia,
South Korea,
Japan,
etc.

Galleries in Pbase : Ambon & Maluku, Bangka & Bali, Komodo & Maumere, Moalboal, Mabul & Sipadan.
Vanuatu incl.SS Pres.Coolidge wreck.