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Sony HDR-FX7 / HVR-V1


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#1 wagsy

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 07:21 AM

Great now another camera we have to buy :rolleyes:

I still think a 1/3�€� CCD is better than a 1/4�€� CMOS but I suppose we will all find out soon.
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#2 ronrosa

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 07:49 AM

Well, it not supposed to replace the FX-1, but fill the gap between the A1 and FX1.

Within reason, it looks like everything I was hoping for. Better low light than the A1, smaller and lighter than the FX1. One button push MWB. Cheaper than the FX1. And I think the 20x zoom will work wonders for macro.

#3 skawdiver

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 08:03 AM

FX-7 = 4 lux
FX-1 = 3 lux

My PD-170 = 1 lux

When will there be a HDV with 1 lux :rolleyes:

Here where I live, low light perfomance is essential :unsure:
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#4 DeanB

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 08:43 AM

Am I reading it right that its a native 4:3 instead of 16:9..

What does this mean brothers, what does this mean..

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#5 peacedog

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 09:26 AM

Right you are, Ron. It will be interesting to see how the gang at LMI, Gates and Amphibico will respond to this.
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#6 SimonSpear

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 11:00 AM

Native 4:3? I thought HD and HDV had to be 16:9? Someone mentioned when it was just a rumour that it would be 4:3 and I didn't really pay attention because I thought that he was talking garbage. Now I'm confused.


edit Ahh apparently it stretches the picture.... hmmm.

Wow just been reading about the FX7 when I saw the info on the pro version the V1... will shoot 25P and has XLR inputs.

Edited by SimonSpear, 07 September 2006 - 11:23 AM.


#7 ronrosa

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 11:46 AM

Gates says they will announce something at November's Dema.

I think the FX1 and Z1 are also native 4:3.

I'm ignorant. I know the XLR audio inputs don't do diddly underwater. Exactly how is 25p better for us ?

Edited by ronrosa, 07 September 2006 - 11:57 AM.


#8 Drew

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 12:33 PM

Today, Sony announced new HVR-FX7 camcorder and the pro HVR-V1E (PAL only for now). The new FX7 is significantly smaller than the FX1, similar in size to the outgoing VX2100. More importantly, the specs are closer to the Canon XH-A1 which was announced last month. With a 20X Zeiss Optical zoom, a 1/4" x 3 CMOS sensors design and smaller form factor, Sony has filled out the missing component in its lineup between the big performance gap of the HVR-H3 and the FX1.
Posted Image
HDR-FX7

New specs include higher resolution sensors vs the older CCDs and a 3.5" LCD screen(like the FX1) situated at the side of the camera, as per the VX2100. The pro version, HVR-V1E, has only been announced in PAL versions. This camcorder is progressive scan native vs the old CineFrame faked prog scan mode in the FX1. In essence, it's recording 1080/25P on HDV, which is a first among HDV cameras.
The HVR-FX7 MSRP is $3499 and the HVR-V1E is €4800 ($5600).
Posted Image
HVR-V1E

The XH-A1/G1 is Canon's answer to the HDR-FX1/HVR-Z1 from Sony. With 20X fluorite lens and higher resolution CCDs plus HD-SDI, Genlock and TC in/out for the XHG1, the Canons really give the FX1/Z1 a good run for the money. The XHA1 is the cheapest 3 CCD HDV camcorder out there with XLR audio inputs. The XHA1 goes for $3999 and the XHG1 $5999.
Posted Image
XH-A1

A short comparison between the 2 camcorders for u/w shooting:
Sony FX7/V1E Canon XHA1/G1
Lens(35mm): 37.4-748mm 32-650mm
Sensor Actual res(HDV): 1037k per sensor 1560k
Lux (Jap): 8(US about 3.5) 7(US about 3)

The XHG1 has more manual functions to finetune the picture but the V1E shoots 25P. We'll see how they test when released in Oct.


For more info:

[url="http://www.sonybiz.net/cgi-bin/bvisapi.dll/includes/changeProduct.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0202577295.1157648932@@@@&BV_EngineID=daddhjdeldfgbemgcfkmcfjfdhk.0&KEY=TEMP-HVR-V1E""]HVR-V1E announcement[/url]

HDR-FX1 announcement

Canon XH-A1/G1 info

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#9 Drew

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 12:52 PM

Sorry Ron
I deleted Cliff's and your post since it was the same and put it all under one topic thread.

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#10 Drew

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 01:42 PM

Besides Gates, Amphibico is also running a prototype for the camera. Seriously I doubt any of the big manufacturers will skip this model, except maybe S&S.

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#11 ronrosa

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 03:29 PM

Sorry Ron
I deleted Cliff's and your post since it was the same and put it all under one topic thread.


Gee, thanks a lot Dru. Stealing my thunder as the 1st FX7 thread starter. And forget about Cliff, he is anti HD anyway. :rolleyes: Just kidding.

Back to my stupid questions. So, the V1 is the pro version of the FX7. It has 25p capability. Being a newbie, progressive is apparently better for fast moving scenes and creating a "film" look ? Does this really matter to underwater video ?

Either way, I think I will skip the V1, get the FX7 and use the money on a good lens. I figure Gates, and Amphibico housings will be similarly priced.

I found a nice pic comparing the size of the FX7 to the FX1. I'm assuming the housings will be similar in size to the VX2000.

fx1_7.jpg

Edited by ronrosa, 07 September 2006 - 03:59 PM.


#12 SimonSpear

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 11:11 PM

Hi Ron

Like you said 25P creates more of a 'film' look than 50i/60i. I've seen comparisons in SD between 24P and 50i and it's amazing the difference that can be seen. It also can take away that 'home video feel' from footage and really make it look more like a film. We will of course have to wait and see how effective it is on this cam as it's 25P not 24P. There have been plenty of false dawns before!

The XLR inputs are purely for above water use of course - unless someone knows where I can go interview a dolphin! :rolleyes:

#13 Drew

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 03:41 AM

Sorry about that.
Progressive scan eliminates interlacing artifacts which you won't usually see on interlaced TVs but will on plasma, LCD and projection screens which are progressive scan. These artifacts are more noticeable in slo-mo sequences, which brings another advantage of p-scan, when slowing down clips for slomo. It makes video turn out smoother in motion vs interlaced.
The film look comes from 24P, which mimics the 24 fps of 35mm film. Motion looks different(dare I say better?) vs interlaced video at 60 or 50. 24P is mostly used for film out telecine. With 25P, you just drop one frame to get 24P. P allows beautiful slow motion sequences vs the blurred interlace video (which only has 1/2 the data at any one frame).
PS the jury is still out on the low light performance of CMOS sensors. Lux may not tell the whole story.

Gee, thanks a lot Dru. Stealing my thunder as the 1st FX7 thread starter. And forget about Cliff, he is anti HD anyway. :rolleyes: Just kidding.

Back to my stupid questions. So, the V1 is the pro version of the FX7. It has 25p capability. Being a newbie, progressive is apparently better for fast moving scenes and creating a "film" look ? Does this really matter to underwater video ?

Either way, I think I will skip the V1, get the FX7 and use the money on a good lens. I figure Gates, and Amphibico housings will be similarly priced.

I found a nice pic comparing the size of the FX7 to the FX1. I'm assuming the housings will be similar in size to the VX2000.

fx1_7.jpg


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#14 wagsy

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 04:41 AM

Progressive is better thats for sure but you can do it quite easy with Aspect HD 4+ & Prem Pro) now with 1080 50i HDV camera's as it can convert it to 25p as it comes in from the camera, then you just edit in 25p.

I recond a new back door on the with controls and a base plate and it may fit in the Phenom :rolleyes:
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#15 Drew

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 05:24 AM

Ah Wags, if it were a perfect process then they'd never have progressive scan cameras. Deinterlacing require interpolation/duplication of the missing fields. No matter how advanced the algorithm, it's never going to be as good as from the sensor. Is it worth the extra $$? That's another issue.

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#16 wagsy

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 06:09 AM

Well you could be right there Drew, but it does come out rather good still though.

I'm not spending any more money on camera's for awhile, happy with what I can get on the FX1.
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#17 Drew

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 06:57 AM

Wags, your camera gives you a 'fake' progressive scan in cineframe mode. It's really a bit of frame blending but it works and to my eyes looks better than deinterlacers like Magic Bullet and DA. Of course you will have to capture as progressive.

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#18 Nick Hope

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 08:32 AM

Help! Brain fried. Was about to put a deposit down on a Z1 on Monday.

#19 SimonSpear

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 09:21 AM

LOL Nick.

#20 Nick Hope

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 09:27 AM

So do I do it or not, bearing in mind I need a working system in November??? *rips hair out*