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Sony HDR-FX7 / HVR-V1


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#61 ronrosa

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 08:38 AM

V1 has xlr audio and 24p, FX7 doesn't. Street price difference TBD.

#62 Steve Douglas

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 08:50 AM

Ron, Unless you are doing topside interviews and using lavaliers and such, the XLR outs may not be the most important thing going. The 24p could be valuable for that film look and slo mo effects but, like any effect, these need to be used very sparingly. Thus, for 95% of your shooting it will be the quality of resolution and flexibility of camcorder tools that will be the main decision making considerations. Then again, sometimes the resolution differences are so slight that most will not be able to tell the differences anyway. If only the Panasonic 200 P2 cards could hold more and were cheaper that would be my choice. I recently read of someone using the Panasonic in an AquaVideo housing and putting one of the Firestore HDs in the housing as well. It apparently worked well tho heat build up in the housing caused by the external was a concern.
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#63 SimonSpear

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 01:49 PM

The latest reports/comparisons that I've been reading suggest that the low light performance isn't as good as we could have hoped for. As far as I can make out the comparisons were all with pre-release models, but I doubt that it would change significantly from the production versions. Basically it's not as good as the FX1/Z1 but I've not seen it compared yet to the A1 or the HC consumer cams. In theory it still should be better than them.... in theory.

Bummer.

Steve the V1 in addition to 1080i has 1080 25P (PAL) and 24/30P (NTSC) and XLR inputs. Apart from that they are the same cam as far as I'm aware although there maybe some additional differences that I've not heard or forgotten about.

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#64 spaceflight

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 09:33 PM

I just found the new Sony site for the HVR-V1U. Just thought you guys might be interested in seeing it.
http://bssc.sel.sony...-V1U/index.html
There is quite a bit of information on the site and also includes info on the optional new 60 gig hard disk.
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#65 Steve Douglas

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 08:07 AM

Not a ton of info on that site. Interesting that they have their own record to external device up there. Now if some manufacturers could figure a way for it to fit within the housing....that would be something.
Ron, I don't think anyone answered your question about traveling with your cam inside the housing. While it may be quite secure in the housing, assuming you put the housing in checked luggage, would you really want the cam to be subject to the bouncing around and throwing of your housing case as the baggage handlers are prone to do. I have and will never ship my cam while it is still in the housing. I always make the cam a part of my carry on luggage. Actually, I am amazed to hear that there are those who do ship the cam within the housing. That takes courage.
For us Yanks, it seems like the HVR-V1U is the way to go between the two cams, it just has more going for it. I will have to see if it is compatible with Apple's NLE. However, the FX7 will do just fine by 99% of the underwater shooting world.
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#66 peacedog

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 10:25 PM

Anyone know anything about this camera yet? For a guy who's literally days - maybe hours - away from dropping some serious coin on a Bluefin setup for the FX1, can anyone advise on this one?

I understand it doesn't actually ship until December of this year, but I was wondering if anyone around here had been given the opportunity to test drive a demo model. I'm a big fan of 24p and I know it's a pretty big deal that Sony's finally come to the party on variable frame rates on this level of camera.

Anyone think it's worth holding out just a few more months? Is there word that the housing manufacturers are already cracking the whip on their engineers?

I'm seriously about ready to go insane on this.
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#67 Drew

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 04:14 PM

dog
The V1U has 24P and 30P and 60i. Why don't you ask yourself what you want? Are clients asking for 24P or even P? Are you shooting stock or production?
I was having this conversation with a buddy who does u/w camerwork for a few shows on Animal Planet and Discovery. He was less than lukewarm about the V1. None of his clients ask for 1080P, happily accepting 1080i. Now I'm sure if he offered 1080P, they'd take it. But he's not fussed... for now.
The specifications speak for themselves. The V1 has 24/30P and has great resolution CMOS sensors that is better than the FX/Z1 and HVX200. Noise handling is excellent and very comparable to the FX/Z1, if slightly noisier. The great thing is that it has knee point adjustments which will help with the highlights and balancing the image. What I didn't see on the camera is the manual gain control. It's not perfect but the end result is excellent, the best HDV stuff I've seen yet from their DEMO DVD. I'll be viewing the Canon A/G1 later this week to compare.
3 of the big housing manufacturers have told me they will be producing housings for the V1/FX7. At least one of them has a working prototype. Will they have a SWA like the Fathoms SWA44? Not right now. Only 2 housings have shipping SWA for the FX/Z1, S&S and Gates. The lens should work very well with the smaller FX7/V1. I know people who go for housings based on optics only, because the image is only as good as the lens, not how many controls you have in one hand etc.
With the V1U, you'll be spending more than the FX1, since it's priced at $4800 MSRP vs $3100(street) for the FX1. How much is prog-scan worth to you again? :blush:

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#68 Steve Douglas

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 04:50 PM

Both progressive and interlaced provide different appearances, so if the V1 gives you the option that might save some time in post. If it only shoots in progressive that would need to be considered.
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#69 Drew

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 03:54 PM

Street Prices (from that big store on 34th and 9th in Manhattan):

HVR-V1U : $4290.00
HDR-FX7 : $3499.99
HDR-DR60: $1490.00

Interesting that the FX7 is selling for full MSRP and the V1 is discounted by $510(Earlier reports on MSRP were not official). The price differential is $790.01. Which is markedly lower compared to the FX1 to Z1 and the HC1 to A1 price difference , even at street prices. Makes that progressive so much more palatable. :)
I think Sony may have lowered the MAP to help it compete with Canon XH series, esp the XHA1, which can be upgraded to do NTSC and PAL.

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#70 ronrosa

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 04:25 PM

Interesting indeed. Wonder if this pre-order pricing will change once the items are actually in stock ? If not, I may have to consider the V1.

Everytime I walk into B&H, even if it's just to browse, I always manage to buy something.

Edited by ronrosa, 29 September 2006 - 04:26 PM.


#71 Drew

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 06:55 PM

Another Manhattan store has the FX7 listed at $3149.95, $350.04 less and exactly the same price as the FX1. Ahhh I love competition.

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#72 Steve Douglas

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Posted 30 September 2006 - 07:52 AM

Yes, but which one. Those stores are definitely not all legit and some will either rip you off, ship grey market or whatever. I have dealt with Berger Brothers and B&H and, at least, got what I wanted.
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#73 Steve Douglas

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 06:18 PM

Here's a thought...maybe someone can throw about. I personally have never shot in 24p and only in 29.97 NTSC, thus I am trying to understand and get a clearer handle on the p vs i debate. 24p gives a 'film look' which is softer, more diffused, less articulated and is prone to artifacting especially when panning. Even commercial films on DVD can artifact in certain film situations. Interlaced is sharper, more defined and less prone and softening filters can always be applied if that is what someone wants. My question is, and this is probably because there is something I am just not understanding, why do underwater shooters want to film in 24p. Just to get that degraded film look? I don't get it. It is great that the HVR-V1 will offer you the option to shoot in either by why even consider getting a cam that only shoots in progressive mode?
Dazed and confused and not for the first time.
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#74 wagsy

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 11:43 PM

Hey Steve
I suppose the best way to know is when we get them underwater to try out in progessive mode.
Still they are going to be compressing to the HDV format so you will still get the problems that HDV show up.
Once you know HDV limitations though you can start to shoot around it.

I just sent my last land clip to the US shot with both the FX1 and A1 mixed together. No bad comments came back, but I knew the limitations of the little A1 and shot around it.

The main thing is that you need a camera now days that shoots in 16.9 and you can offer it in HDV res if you want to sell it I suppose.

Or we can just all save up for a RED or full HD camera.

Who is going to be the first though to get one wet......not me...maybe Drew :)
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#75 aquavideo1

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 11:52 AM

So do I do it or not, bearing in mind I need a working system in November??? *rips hair out*


Hi. This is Mike Hastings from AquaVideo. Just joined this forum - probably should have years ago but never got around to it. Noticing a lot of interest in the HDR-FX7/HVR-V1, and people wondering when a housing will be available.

As some of you may know we started making video housings 25 years ago - when virtually every housing was custom. Although we started out making aluminum housings, the vast majority have been PVC due to of a number advantages. One advantage is that it allows us to make custom and short run housings with very short turn around times. For example, once we get our hands on a camera, we will be able to make a housing for the FX7/V1 (or basically any new camera) in about two days ... if I stop answering the phone, 3-4 days otherwise. (It is almost easier for us to make the new housings than it is to keep brochure/website information up to date.)

I have seen all of the pictures (By the way the HVR-V1 has been officially announced in the US, the Sony press release URL is:

http://news.sel.sony...ease/25017.html

The FX7/V1 will be particularly easy because it is very similar to the VX2000/PD150 so we will have an easier starting point. The The HDR-FX7/HVR-V1 has several advantages over the FX1 and Z1 for underwater. First of all the microphone is more appropriately placed - the FX1 microphone stuck out an inch past the front of the lens. This caused a problem for people that wanted to use a matte box and some other abovewater accessories, but it also made it difficult for us because the wide angle lens converters available (and there were only 2 that really worked without vignetting due to the 72mm thread and deep inset of the actual lens) didn't stick out enough to fit into the dome as it normally should. This required extra machining (and weakening) of the frontplate and the use of a larger than normal dome. There were other workarounds but all added cost and complexity.

The HDR-FX7/HVR-V1 has a normal placement of the microphone so no problems there, and the lens is a smaller 67mm thread (and less inset) which means there are dozens of good quality wide angle converters that will work (with slight differences in quality depending how much you spend - $200 to $600). Finally, the LCD screen is in a much better position than the FX1/Z1. With it folded out at about a 45 degree angle it is clearly visible through the back of the housing, and since it is inset several inches it is well shaded for better visibility in the sun. Again, we have extensive experience with this since it is virtually the same as on the VX2000 and VX2100 and PD150/170.

The controls that I can see that will be readily accessible and probably standard are: POWER/MODE SWITCH; TRIGGER; ZOOM; , EXPOSURE/IRIS, MANUAL IRIS WHEEL, PUSH AUTO FOCUS, EXPANDED FOCUS AND FOCUS, ND FILTER, MANUAL FOCUS, PICTURE PROFILE AND STATUS SELECT. and along the back MENU, MENU SELECT/PUSH, WHT BAL. SHUTTER SPEED, GAIN, AUTOLOCK/HOLD SWITCH. We will control at least 2 maybe all 3 ASSIGN SWITCHES. We can do 2 with one control - do you guys think you need a third assign switch, since it would require another control?

A STILL PHOTO BUTTON WOULD BE EASY IF THERE IS ONE (I couldn't see the top right side clearly on the Sony photos.) There should be sufficient room for a Sony or Citidisk HDV hard drive recorder as well. (We have incorporated the Citidisk HDV in a number of our housings.)

We have already started taking orders at $2599 (plus you will need a wide angle converter) and if any of you guys overseas can get one to us sooner than B&H, you can be the first to get one. The housing should be usable with either the HDR-FX7 or the HVR-V1 as the controls and lens position are exactly the same - I should be able to guesstimate the additional room needed for the XLRs on the HVR-V1, as we did for the PD150/VX2000 housing. I have attached a photo of a PD150/170 housing with a HDR-FX7 label, which will look virtually identical to the housing for the HDR-FX7 and HVR-V1.

If you would like more info you can try emailing (although I get so much email it is hard to work through it every day) or you can call at the number on our website.

For those of you that will be at DEMA, you can visit us at booth 1283 (DEMA is October 8-11 in Orlando this year)

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#76 DeanB

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 01:23 PM

Now thats an advert !!!!

Dive safe

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#77 Steve Douglas

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 02:12 PM

Wagsy, Been shooting with the A1U since last Jan. Yes, there are limitations but I see that as being caused by its small size and poor zoom control. Actually, I have been pleased with the footage but found it disappointing to use topside. Again, size limitations. With the FX7 and the V1 now real possibilities for me, I am having a hard time deciding....is progressive something I really want. Thus, my comment above.
Take care,
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#78 wagsy

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 04:31 PM

Thanks Mike For that Info and welcome. Have come across your housings from time to time but I still would not trade my Phenom for one. :) But It would appeal to people due to the cheaper price. Mike you should see if someone can do a review on it as well. We have done ones on Amphibico, Gates and L&M on here so far.

Steve you really have to lock the shutter on the little A1 and keep ontop of the exposure. I shot a heap of plants outside with it and kicking back the AE in the menu by -2 gave it about the correct exposure. It also helped it underwater. Having it just on auto underwater is a not very good. Why was it on 100 shutter, 1.8 fstop and 3db gain and overexsposed when it should of been on like 50 shutter 0db and fstop 4.6 or something?

These new cameras have a CMOS as well so you may have to do the same and get a housing with manual controls of shutter, exposure and the ablity to turn off that db gain and then back on abit for certain shots to lift your fstop. Looks like you will on Mikes housings.

I do like this.... The new hard-disk recording unit also has a cache recording, or buffer memory, function, allowing up to 14 seconds of video and audio signals to be continuously buffered in the memory while the camera is in stand-by mode. When the operator presses “record” that content is captured and then recording can continue in real time. I recond I could get one inside the Phenom. :(
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#79 aquavideo1

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 05:57 PM

Now thats an advert !!!!

Dive safe

DeanB


Sorry, if it seemed overly commercial - I thought maybe people would appreciate getting it from the horse's mouth. If the majority of forum members or the moderator would rather we didn't post what our response will be to a major camcorder product announcement - please let me know and I will refrain from doing so.

#80 Drew

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 06:10 PM

Michael, please check your pm.

On record, we gladly welcome all manufacturers to participate in Wetpixel forums. However, it is not a place for ads (unless you buy ad space :) ). I certainly appreciate the line is blurry but that's why we have moderators.
I do strongly recommend all manufacturers have website/contact info in their signatures to allow forum members to contact them regarding their products.
Cheers
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