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#1 wagsy

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 03:45 PM

Hi all

Have been using Premiere Pro and Cineforms Aspects HD plugin to edit HDV, which works great for realtime editing of HDV, however the exported m2t files with Aspects encoder are not as good as Main Concepts Pro m2t encoder. Main Concept Pro's encoders however causes tiny jumps at any transitions in the final m2t file so through frustration I have been playing around with Canopus Edius Pro and I must say it's not bad for editng HDV.

You can edit in native m2t (abit clunky) or you can covert it to Canopus own HD codec as it comes in from the camrera in realtime then just edit. The codec mbps is variable and looking at the same shots from Cineforms avi codec and Canopus, I would say Canopus is better :D . Edius has very very very good slowmo, blows Premiere Pros away and it edits the HDV in realtime with effects, titles the lot. The encoded out m2t files look and play great. It does take abit ot find ones way around but after a few hours away you go.

I would say to others out there, go and download the 30 day trial and try it out. I think I might say goodbye to Premire and Aspect hd as I get to know this program better. :blink:
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#2 Steve Douglas

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 06:17 PM

Or you might buy a Mac and get Final Cut Studio!!!!!!;-)
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#3 wagsy

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 06:21 PM

Had to post again, seriously if you are on PC go and download Edius PRO. I cannot believe what I am doing with it sitting here right now and the m2t, wmv and dvd files that I'm encoding out look great and it's faster than Premiere Pro to encode files out....

3 HDV tracks, one with colour correction and the other two are moving pips with fade in and outs with a title and music all playing in real time...

Canopus HD variable codec is very good, and the program loads very fast. Suck it in as HDV raw m2t or 30 gigs per hour AVI or 40 GIGS for fine or crank it right up to 100mbps or more...

You can even start up the mpeg capture by itself and watch it full screen as it comes in from the camera and converts it to the HD codec in realtime. Even set it up to watch it progressive as it comes in so no interlacing on my LCD screen...
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#4 Nick Hope

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 08:49 PM

The new Sony Vegas 7 (out 2 days ago) has improved support for .m2t files. They can now be edited nicely on the timeline (apparently... haven't done it myself yet). But if you're doing a lot of compositing they say it's still best to use CineForm (Connect HD in the case of Vegas, as opposed to Aspect HD for Premiere Pro).

They've made some nice improvements elsewhere too like snapping, which is now fantastic. Vegas 7 is really very solid, powerful and user-friendly now.

There was a feeling that the future's a bit uncertain with Canopus since they were bought by Avid. They certainly seemed to give up development of Procoder. I don't know what the future holds for Edius but it might be worth investigating on the Edius forums before committing your future to it.

Wagsy, why would you be encoding out .m2t fies? Are you editing and then writing .m2t back to tape? I got the impression that it's best to get away from .m2t to something else if you need to archive to disk or encode for distribution (other than HDV tape). *disclaimer: this might be a daft question because I haven't done no HDV yet*

#5 Drew

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 09:11 PM

HDV is an interframe lossy codec. So you will have generational degradation. I believe it's always a good idea to convert to an Intraframe codec that is less lossy. If you are downconverting as a final output. then I'd suggest Sheervideo codec (which is non-lossy). I personally output to uncompressed 10bit but Sheer was a big favorite due to the 1/2 size of uncompressed.

Hmm nick, I'm surprised that Pratunam already has Vegas 7 so soon after release. :blink:

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#6 wagsy

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 11:17 PM

I have tried editng with raw m2t files with Main Concept Pro and Premeire Pro and Edius but it's still clunky. I even had a quick go with Vegas 6 with tthe same results. Vegas 6 by the way takes forwever to load up. Install NETframework 1 then install it's patch then reboot then do this and do that, then connect to the net.... <_< :D ...turned me right off from the start.

Yes I go back to m2t to feed it back to the tape for storage etc, but Cineforms Aspect HD is not that good at that, and then there is the flicker problem with Main Concept Pro on the fades' although it encodes better. Prospect would be better as it's 10 bit editing but how much does that cost?

I feel that a better storage codec would be better as well. Drew cheers for that, did not know about the Sheervideo codec, see they have a windows version of it. Might work, then just dump to DVD disks.

Procoder has had no changes in abit but they have now out Edius 4 I see so they must be still looking at being in the game. Anyhow I just got back from a dive on the Pier...dirty water but tons of fish... ;) will edit up some stuff with Edius 3 in HDV mode from the little A1 camera and EVO. :blink:
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#7 Steve Douglas

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 04:58 PM

Wags, I am often asked which I think is the best NLE for PC users. Since I have always been a Mac person, I tell them of the NLEs that I know of and the little I know about them. Would love to see a report by someone as knowledgeable as yourself comparing some of the better PC NLEs so I could provide more comprehensive and intelligent responses regarding them.
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I have worked as an unpaid reviewer for the editing websites since 2002. Most all hardware and software is sent to me free of charge, however, in no way am I obligated to provide either positive or negative evaluations. Any suggestions I make regarding products are a result of my own, completely, personal opinions and experiences with said products.

#8 RebreatherDave

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 08:17 PM

This conversation here is the out of control video editing equivalent of crazed rebreather divers talking:

After temping up my sorb, doing a pos and neg check and checking my DSV/OC BOV, I did some dive plans using DDPlanner, and setting my tissue compartments, gradient factors and conservatism levels, then using a blend of Buelmann and Haldean algorithm calcs based upon doppler backed variable permeability bubble models, I flew my YBOD eCCR to 190 FSW's, and using a p02 of 1.3 atms on a mix blend of 40/60 He/air as the dil, I stayed for the planned time with my VR3 as a backup whilst monitoring my long/short term 02 so I didn't OXTOX and my c02 so as to avoid going hypercapnic.


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#9 wagsy

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 10:02 PM

Dave..what are you on there mate :lol:

Sounds like to much work to go fo a dive, easier to just grab the open circuit that's been sittng on the tank for two weeks un washed.... and go fo a dive :blush:

Well Canopus Australia have been in contact with me and it looks like they are sending over a copy of the new Edius 4 to test out with our underwater HDV footage. Going by the downloaded demo 4 I have been messing around with, I think it's going to rock. It's certainly a grossly underestimated piece of NLE...even unkown by allot of people.

It has things like.
That beautiful Canopus HQ codec...beats Cineforms..... had fun deleting 800 GIGS of it... :P
Keyframing slow mow
Tons of effects
Realtime keyframing even with colour correction. (CC very good going by the tests so far)
Turbo m2t out encoding
Real time power
Batch caputering and much more....
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#10 MikeVeitch

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 10:43 PM

Right, i am off to contact Canopus Yap for my trial version....

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#11 wagsy

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 11:00 PM

Har Har...Mike....I will put a copy of the 30 day free demo on a CD and send to ya to try. You need at least 3 GIG processor and 128 megs of graphics to drive it though. Don't want to knock out Yaps power supply now......

Pretty cool though. Have suck in a whole tape, then when it gets to the end you have it all converted to the Canopus Codec ready to edit just like if you had sucked in the raw m2t.
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#12 RebreatherDave

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 03:57 PM

Wags,

Actually, when I read the video stuff, I was thinking., damn, this stuff is way over my head.....but I have given tech rebreather divers and the DIR zealots a hard time, the ones that I think spend more time talking about theory using abbreviations, acronyms and such in such a convoluted collection that normal people would have absoutley no idea what the hell they were talking about.....sorta like me when you gusy were rattling off all that video voodoo. :blush:
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