Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Soundtracks & Copyright


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 wagsy

wagsy

    Blue Whale

  • Senior Moderator
  • 3845 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cairns, Queensland.
  • Interests:Sewing and Knitting......no diving of course :-)

Posted 25 September 2006 - 07:10 AM

Yikes....I better stop using the Life Aquatic's sound track...he he..
Have to dig up the royalty free stuff....

I remember once that we had a guy from the record industry onboard a Floppy Shark Trip.....he brought a day DVD but it was real cool as that was the year we started to use royalty free stuff....yep and he asked what music we used....
Amphibico Phenom & EVO PRO & Navigator 900
Share Your Underwater Videos www.hdvunderwater.com | www.flykam.com.au | www.reeftorainforest.com.au

#2 Mary Lynn

Mary Lynn

    Video Expert

  • Moderator
  • 299 posts

Posted 25 September 2006 - 10:13 AM

Soundtrack stuff is such a can of worms, but it's one we all have to deal with (all who are making videos, anyway). Deep sigh. Wagsy, I'm going to start a new forum topic in the Video Editing, Post and Sharing section, where I hope folks will post their favorite solutions to the whole soundtrack issue. Thank you for getting this rolling!

Mary Lynn
http://DiveFilm.com

#3 Mary Lynn

Mary Lynn

    Video Expert

  • Moderator
  • 299 posts

Posted 25 September 2006 - 10:52 AM

This is like opening the proverbial Pandora's box, but it's also something those of us making video creations are all dealing with.

Notwithstanding the legalities ( :blush: ), one way to think of it is by considering the implications of discovering that some musician or band had decided to make a music video and use your video footage downloaded from the web to do so. Whether they credit you or not, you'd probably want to be asked permission first? Possibly even paid for such use?

In any event, valuing our own work as creative producers brings us into the larger world of other artists, writers, musicians, filmmakers, and all others who produce creative content.

This doesn't mean, though, that the issue of copyright is cut and dried--it's not. And there's a tension between freedom of expression and intellectual property rights. This is what keeps lawyers employed, and those of us trying to produce creative works on a budget struggling.

So what I'd like to do is encourage other forum posters to share their solutions and ideas for soundtrack work in response. I know this issue has come up before, but it can't hurt to get it rolling again.

One of the programs that's been mentioned in other posts is a solution that I like to use, but it's not cheap. SonicFire Pro makes for some good soundtrack music, and allows a wide variation in complexity when it comes to generating soundtracks. All the way from just picking a selection and setting the duration needed to "mood-mapping" to full-on composition with snippets of instrumentation.

Then there's Garageband and Soundtrack for Mac-users. Would love to hear more from those using either of these programs about how best to approach soundtrack-making. I'm sure there are similar PC programs, and will defer to PC folks for that info.

Hope this helps, and would love to hear from others on the whole subject.

Mary Lynn

Edited by Mary Lynn, 25 September 2006 - 02:20 PM.


#4 pmooney

pmooney

    Orca

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1232 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cairns Australia
  • Interests:Growing Grapes

Posted 25 September 2006 - 01:11 PM

Wags,

You can pay a licence fee ( approx $400.00 AUD ) to the APRA ( Australian Performing Rights Assiociation ) people that covers you for such usage. It has been developed for event videographers ( weddings , sports events , dive trips etc ).


There are some guidelines that you need to follow.
From memory maximum of 20 copies , each event must have no more than 40 % of the same content.

Small price to pay for the comfort of doing the right thing.

Music Use Licence

#5 Mary Lynn

Mary Lynn

    Video Expert

  • Moderator
  • 299 posts

Posted 25 September 2006 - 01:59 PM

That's a great link! I had not realized that Australia doesn't recognize "fair use," but has a series of exceptions under what is referred to as "fair dealing." Particularly important to news writers and documentary producers...

But the fees business is interesting. I realize it's meant to make it fair to content producers, and it's more straight-forward than U.S. laws are right now, but it's still something of a hassle.

Thank you for sharing that link!

Edited by Mary Lynn, 25 September 2006 - 02:03 PM.


#6 wagsy

wagsy

    Blue Whale

  • Senior Moderator
  • 3845 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cairns, Queensland.
  • Interests:Sewing and Knitting......no diving of course :-)

Posted 25 September 2006 - 04:44 PM

Cheers for that Peter.
I did know about Apra but not about weddings and other Domestic Video sections.

Will check it out for public viewing as well. Good man...... :blush:
Amphibico Phenom & EVO PRO & Navigator 900
Share Your Underwater Videos www.hdvunderwater.com | www.flykam.com.au | www.reeftorainforest.com.au

#7 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10647 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 25 September 2006 - 06:28 PM

Wags write your own darn music... only took me 4 days to write a 4 minute mastercrap piece. :blush:

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#8 mattdiver

mattdiver

    Tiger Shark

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 698 posts
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Photography (duh!), billiards, modern architecture.

Posted 25 September 2006 - 09:11 PM

Wags write your own darn music... only took me 4 days to write a 4 minute mastercrap piece. :blush:


Actually, Leo Blanco writes and plays his own soundtracks. Not everybody's that gifted, but it does solve Wags' problem :blush:

#9 NickJ

NickJ

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 380 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunshine Coast, Australia
  • Interests:NATURAL HISTORY
    PHOTOGRAPHY & VIDEO
    SCUBA DIVING
    MOUNTAIN HIKING
    MUSIC
    COMPUTING

Posted 25 September 2006 - 09:25 PM

Actually, Leo Blanco writes and plays his own soundtracks. Not everybody's that gifted, but it does solve Wags' problem :blush:


I think talent could be helpful. I create my own music too, but have yet to find the right video footage to accompany my "Whistling in the Shower' overture ....

Sony RX100+Nauticam+Sea&Sea YS-D1; Sony FX1+Light and Motion BlueFin+SunRay Pro, Sony A1, Nikon D80

 


#10 wagsy

wagsy

    Blue Whale

  • Senior Moderator
  • 3845 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cairns, Queensland.
  • Interests:Sewing and Knitting......no diving of course :-)

Posted 25 September 2006 - 09:34 PM

Well I spend enough time on this thing as it is.

Cutting up a new Nat Ningaloo version right now shot with the HDV's...sold 2000 copies of the of old one and people have already been ringing up for more..so they are in demand and hey we have to do better than David Hanans Ningaloo one he did in HD....

Have not got time to make 60 mins of music tracks....ripping all our royalty free CD's into the computer right now...
Amphibico Phenom & EVO PRO & Navigator 900
Share Your Underwater Videos www.hdvunderwater.com | www.flykam.com.au | www.reeftorainforest.com.au

#11 NickJ

NickJ

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 380 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunshine Coast, Australia
  • Interests:NATURAL HISTORY
    PHOTOGRAPHY & VIDEO
    SCUBA DIVING
    MOUNTAIN HIKING
    MUSIC
    COMPUTING

Posted 25 September 2006 - 10:53 PM

I find that SonicFire Pro is pretty versatile. All the tracks in my short 'Full Moon in Belize" vid http://wetpixel.com/...showtopic=15020 are from SonicFire libraries (bar one which my nephew synthesized) and I thought they worked out OK - although obviously that is a matter of taste!

But there is no question IMHO that this aspect of video production is one of the most time consuming and frustrating, and you never really end up with 'Dark Side of the Moon' either..... <_<

Another possibility is to write to the artists you like. One of the still slide show presenters at last year's Celebrate the Sea event in Singapore (and sorry I can't remember his name) used a lot of Steve Vai in his show. He had written to Steve to ask permission to use his tracks and as this was an Eco, non-profit sort of event, Steve said sure, go ahead - no charge. So I guess there is no harm asking if you have the contacts or enough bull....

Sony RX100+Nauticam+Sea&Sea YS-D1; Sony FX1+Light and Motion BlueFin+SunRay Pro, Sony A1, Nikon D80

 


#12 MikeVeitch

MikeVeitch

    1.7kbps Manta Boy

  • Senior Moderator
  • 6193 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In Bali, Indonesia but from Vancouver, BC
  • Interests:Teaching Underwater Photography

Posted 25 September 2006 - 11:00 PM

what PC programs let you write music anyone know?

Join us for an Underwater Photography Workshop in Ambon March 2015
Blog and Photo Archive/Portfolio Site www.mikeveitchblog.com
Learn underwater photography in Indonesia or Join me on a trip www.underwatertribe.com


#13 skawdiver

skawdiver

    Wolf Eel

  • Industry
  • PipPip
  • 148 posts
  • Location:Skagen - Denmark

Posted 25 September 2006 - 11:25 PM

I use Smartsound, and find it okey.

Smartsound

But also Sony has a nice software sollution, which I am tempted to try out.

Cinescore Profesional Soundtrack Creation
Hans Christian Andersen - www.skawdiver.com • Underwater film production in Scandinavia
Sony PD-170 + Amphibico Housing + Amphibico monitor + Kowalski 1250D Speed lights
Sony TRV 310E + Ikelite Housing + Kowalski 1250D Speed lights + Ultralights arms system

#14 Jules (Helioxfilm)

Jules (Helioxfilm)

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 391 posts
  • Location:Hungary, Budapest
  • Interests:UW videography, tec diving<br />literature (novels)<br />diplomacy

Posted 26 September 2006 - 12:19 AM

I find that SonicFire Pro is pretty versatile. All the tracks in my short 'Full Moon in Belize" vid http://wetpixel.com/...showtopic=15020 are from SonicFire libraries (bar one which my nephew synthesized) and I thought they worked out OK - although obviously that is a matter of taste!

But there is no question IMHO that this aspect of video production is one of the most time consuming and frustrating, and you never really end up with 'Dark Side of the Moon' either..... <_<

Another possibility is to write to the artists you like. One of the still slide show presenters at last year's Celebrate the Sea event in Singapore (and sorry I can't remember his name) used a lot of Steve Vai in his show. He had written to Steve to ask permission to use his tracks and as this was an Eco, non-profit sort of event, Steve said sure, go ahead - no charge. So I guess there is no harm asking if you have the contacts or enough bull....


I followed the above mentioned method for my wreck-etude. I wrote to the artist (explained the situation - non-profit etc.) and he said also: go ahead.

I often search the net for royalty free - and quality - music, however the question of the music raises one more thing which should be taken into consideration: your sequence rely on the music score (beat, mood etc.) so you cut it following the music or you work first on the picture and just after finishing the sequence you are try to find a music which fits to it. For my latest sequence I rely on the music but if was sometimes very bad because I try to imagine which pictures would be the best for the score. I spent much more time with the listening as I expected at the beginning of the editing.

Edited by Jules (Helioxfilm), 26 September 2006 - 12:20 AM.


#15 skawdiver

skawdiver

    Wolf Eel

  • Industry
  • PipPip
  • 148 posts
  • Location:Skagen - Denmark

Posted 26 September 2006 - 12:46 AM

I followed the above mentioned method for my wreck-etude. I wrote to the artist (explained the situation - non-profit etc.) and he said also: go ahead.


Always get the "go ahead" in writing, just in case......
Hans Christian Andersen - www.skawdiver.com • Underwater film production in Scandinavia
Sony PD-170 + Amphibico Housing + Amphibico monitor + Kowalski 1250D Speed lights
Sony TRV 310E + Ikelite Housing + Kowalski 1250D Speed lights + Ultralights arms system

#16 Jules (Helioxfilm)

Jules (Helioxfilm)

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 391 posts
  • Location:Hungary, Budapest
  • Interests:UW videography, tec diving<br />literature (novels)<br />diplomacy

Posted 26 September 2006 - 01:25 AM

Always get the "go ahead" in writing, just in case......


Oh, it was in writing... :blush:

#17 Nick Hope

Nick Hope

    Sperm Whale

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2005 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Thailand

Posted 26 September 2006 - 03:03 AM

But also Sony has a nice software sollution, which I am tempted to try out.

Cinescore Profesional Soundtrack Creation

Cinescore is offered at a big discount and with 2 free themes if you buy it with the recent Vegas 7 upgrade, so I went for it.

However on each of the last 3 days I've attempted to make short soundtracks with it and it's driven me totally nuts and I've gone back to my royalty-free stock. There isn't much available yet in Cinescore that is suitable for underwater videos in my opinion, and I found the control of the intensity etc. to be very frustrating. It's probably great if you're a wedding videographer.

#18 Steve Douglas

Steve Douglas

    Humpback Whale

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2842 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Diego
  • Interests:filming/editing/exotic travel. l write reviews of editing software, books, tutorials and Mac based NLE related products for the www.kenstone.net and www.lafcpug.org sites as well as articles for Asian Diver Magazine and wetpixel. I am one of the founding members of the San Diego UnderSea Film Festival

Posted 27 September 2006 - 08:32 PM

I've had no problems making my own music for a few productions in Soundtrack. Not sure what the problem seems to be for some with it tho. It does take time and patience tho and a feel for the music. The easiest program to use I have found is Sonic Fire 4, it is just as intuitive and easy to learn as can be expected. The new 4 version allows layering and changing of instruments so that even if you use a piece that someone else has used, you can still customize it enough as to be very different compostitions.

www.kenstone.net
www.lafcpug.org

Steve Douglas
steve-sharksdelight@cox.net

I have worked as an unpaid reviewer for the editing websites since 2002. Most all hardware and software is sent to me free of charge, however, in no way am I obligated to provide either positive or negative evaluations. Any suggestions I make regarding products are a result of my own, completely, personal opinions and experiences with said products.


#19 CamDiver

CamDiver

    Great White

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1103 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indonesia
  • Interests:Filming and documentary production. Beach and surf photography. Family time, isolated beaches and walking the dog.

Posted 28 September 2006 - 12:33 AM

Hi Guys,
All the software I use has been mentioned. I have ten of the Smart Sounds compilations which is a great software idea for soundtracking. I also have quite a large selection of the Music Bakery CD's but there are few tracks suited to underwater. I also have a couple of CD's which I commissioned from artists for specific projects but can use snippets from those to enhance other projects too. I also have Soundtrack but not the time in my busy schedule to work on it enough to create my own compositions.

For the dailies here in Palau we normally have around five sure fire selling sites. Each has its own character and environment so I have put together clips of music to suit those sites. I can then drag and drop the soundtracks to suit. It save a lot of time when it comes to pumping out the video of the day.

Cheers,
Mark.
P.S Here's a shot of my dive buddy from today.

The Sharks of the Forgotten Islands

- A Natural History Documentary -


#20 nickdiver

nickdiver

    Lionfish

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 58 posts
  • Location:Palau
  • Interests:Uw filmmaking, uw photo, digital video editing, marine conservation

Posted 07 October 2006 - 12:37 AM

HI All.

I aggree with many, Smartsound (for both Mac and PC) is a very nice program, particualrly when you can beef it up with a whole bunch of CD of its own music. I have about a dozen, and there's always something that will fit the uw mood.

One of the cool features of Smartsound is that - provided you have an internet connection - you can actually preview thousand of tunes online, from the Smartsound CD catalogue, and the download only the one tune you like, instead of being bound to buying the whole CD. At $19 per song, that's not a bad deal at all.

You can also experiment - particularly if you have a bit of a musical ear - at importing Smartsound-generated audio clips into FCPro (or Premiere, etc.), and work with the Speed parameter. Often times, you can SLIGHTLY decrease the bpm of a tune of, sy 4-6% and slow it down so it fits beautifully with the footage or narration. Of course the pitch will also be modified, unless you do the speed decrease/increase using other programs such as SoundForce, etc, which will keep the pitch constant even when you slow down the tempo a bit.

You can also experiment with playing music backwards and see what you get (a la George Martin...60's?), works particualrly well with loops or short segments.

Also, you can create layers using different tunes. Stack 'em up, play with the "volume" curve (equivalent to opacity for video), and move each layer to the right or two the left a bit, see what happens... lots of possibility, and one out of many is bound to "click".

my 5 cents.

Nick
Nick Martorano - Ocean Wonders Underwater Video Productions
L&M Bluefin HD for Sony Z1U, with L&M Standard and WA lens; L&M Sunray Pro HID lighs; backup rig: L&M Bluefin 900 for Sony PD100 and L&M Standard, WA, Macro lenses; MacroMate Super Macro lens
http://www.oceanwonders.org