87 replies to this topic

[seagrant]

Hi Carol,
after 2 week testing TTL CONVERTER I and II now i can say:
1) only the TTL CONVERTER I (first release) give problems with Ys 110 but works very well with YS-90DUO (all releases and also the YS-90 AUTO), Ys120 (like explained in the Compatibility List)
2) The TTL CONVERTER II work now well with the Ys110

For different result with macro or wide angle photos:
is a common opinion that TTL is great with macro shots and portraits but not for wideangle shots. With wideangle a lot of time is will to much difficult for the TTL circuit to read the light on the scene and this will make exposure errors.
I prefefere to use TTL only for macro or for close shots. For wideangle i use manual setting (TTL CONVERTER and camera) infact i found very good the possibility to switch the converter in manual mode and use the power dial on the flash.
I'm very interested in your opinion and maybe if you are using the Converter with differents SEA&SEA strobes you can send us your considerations and some demo shots.
Many thanks

ERIK
www.erikhenchoz.com

Erik and all,

Ryan at ReefPhoto is exchanging the 3rd Sea and Sea TTL converter I've used now for a TTL 2 converter as we speak due to the recent alteration in the Sea and Sea compatibility list for my Sea and Sea 110s. (Again note Ryan's superior service!)

As said before I had two other Sea and Sea TTL units that didn't operate in TTL underwater (one operated for a few shots in TTL in a test above water but quickly failed in TTL), but they both worked in manual bypass (there is a post with my "frustrations in progress" on this - I'd just as soon move on............ ) :glare: Ryan determined that there were a number of units that were "DOA" out of the box.

I've just been trying the Sea and Sea TTL units out on w/a because that is what my main focus is right now (manatee season). I know w/a with TTL is challenging and maybe not the best use for the unit, but it is a good test because you will know how the TTL behaves in the most changing conditions (shallow w/a with wildly varying ambient/lack of ambient light). I don't expect the unit to be perfect under these conditions (but I was told by someone who knows that this unit works quite well for w/a also), yes Erik I'd probably use manual in these w/a conditions [or when the ambient light is reliable just turn off the strobes of course], but I wanted to see how the TTL works.... . I know the unit "white-outs" I got were a problem with the unit because the exposure, etc didn't change and the light didn't change as several were back to back under the same conditions with wildly varying results. But at least this 3rd unit actually worked in some sort of TTL (the other two wouldn't even sync in TTL), so I thought that was a step-up.....

I was just about to hang the unit up for w/a use and try it on on macro exclusively when I read this post about incompatibility with my 110 strobes. I was very glad to read this post and thank Erik for posting it - it saved me yet more frustration.

So now I've decided to give the Sea and Sea TTL2 a try. I'll be using it next week for 6 or 7 hours underwater probably - if weather pattern arrives as predicted (cold fronts have not been making it down here - this is very bad for manatee conditions and I won't go in those circumstances - but that is supppsed to change)...., so I'll have a good idea of the status then. [Silly me in Florida, frowning at too many 60 degree nights and 75 degree days in the middle of winter......... B) ]

I had to decide if the Sea and Sea TTL unit was worth yet another try-out or just go with manual (and manual strobe operation was never a huge problem for me in the past)......, but I'm "stubborn/persistent" and I like to see things through to some sort of answer/conclusion. But the Sea and Sea TTL units are quite expensive (compared to the cost of the Henrich's alone), and I do think Sea and Sea should have tested them out better as previously stated. Especially with their own strobes.

Also at DEMA Sea and Sea told me that the units are only compatible with Sea and Sea housings. This is probably to cover themselves and honestly they have a point as the salesman said he can't vouch for "other" housing electronics. But I also experienced super distasteful (to me), "hard-sell" techniques at DEMA from Sea and Sea booth and their sponsored seminars this past year (something I'm not use to seeing that much of in the u/w camera world). I just think Sea and Sea could put the attention more on the quality/reliability/truth in print of their products instead of all the glossy "hard-sell" that I noticed. But then that is just my observation of course.

Ryan Canon has told me that the unit will work with the Subal ND20 housing and he personally checked out my housing electronics and the unit and all was well. Now the problem is the new incompatibility of the 110 strobes. Ryan knew nothing of this 110 problem and I do feel for him, having to absorb the brunt of these malfunctions when it is basically a Sea and Sea manufacturing problem. Still Ryan has been most patient with me and this I do salute

I'll let you know what happens. Best & Thanks Erik and Sam and all! Carol
PS - ohhhh, Sam a "melting" problem........? Yuck!

Edited by seagrant, 21 January 2007 - 07:02 AM.

[shchae]

Thanks for good words....

Here is comment on S&S chart;

"This product (TTL Converter) is compatible only with the above SEA&SEA Housings and Strobes. Use of other equipment void product warranty."

Hence, it is all your fault from now on....Just like that......

Sam

[shchae]

If I look at all S&S sites , They just mention the compatibility with S&S housings. Does anyone understand why ?
I know that some of you has succesfully tested the converter with other housings and it seems it works. Does it happen by chance or there are some pre-requisistes to be satisfied to use the S&S converter?
Why doesn't S&S say anything on that ? I think it could be an opportunity for them.

I have just got a new Hugyfot housing for my D200 and I'm wondering whether I could use the S&S conveter
The other options (such as inside cards converters) do not allow me to switch from ttl to manual underwater since to do that you need to switch on the second courtain synchronization and the Hugy does not have this function available.

(Oh ...so many questions all at once ! )

O.K. I can answer some of your questions;
1.When YS-110 was newly introduced, there was several reports that it's TTL function is not working. S&S told users & dealers that there is a batch that has problem. Now, they says ALL (?)YS-110 are NOT working
with converter.

2.Based on my problem, here is what I suggest;
a.If you are NOT sure (and worried) how to use TTL converter with 'other'brand housing & strobe, Wait until more test is done & posted here.
b.If you already have TTL converter with 'other'brand housing & strobes,
(1) Insulate Camera from Housing using plastic base and/or plastic screw & use with caution.
(2) Problem reported so far only with Inon Z-220/240 strobes. Use S&S strobes if possible.

I noticed all dealers are VERY quiet on ttl converter/YS110 issue & not making a single comment here....

Sam

[lou]

A message to all brands ! Hi Folks , there is an opportunity out there !
Look at this forum. Roughly over 50% of the topics are on ttl-ittl-ettl (anykind) and converters (S&S, Ikelite,heinrichsweikamp.etcc) It seems clear to me that dslr is moving fast and People (us) are looking for a reliable , flexible, affordable and plug&play solution. Until affordable native ittl (or -e- or whatelse) are available, I think the first who comes up with an open solution can catch the opportunity. S&S seemed to be on the right way but They do not want to make us fully happy . There will be for sure a real issue why they do not want their conveter to be installed on other housings (!?). Hope it not just a commercial reason.

[dhaas]

Not to "stir the pot" so to speak, but I find it especially odd that Bonnie Pelnar, using the Sea and Sea TTL converter to IKELITE DS125 strobes is having great success even on wide angle as I've preached for years......But many other brands are having poor results all over the board.

Plus I am unabashedly biased using only Ikelite housings with their own eTTL2 (Canon) and other friends shooting iTTL (Nikon D200 and D80) built in flash systems.

Digital TTL is here to stay.......Making UW imaging easier

dhaas

[BrantD]

O.K. I can answer some of your questions;
2.Based on my problem, here is what I suggest;
.
b.If you already have TTL converter with 'other'brand housing & strobes,
(1) Insulate Camera from Housing using plastic base and/or plastic screw & use with caution.
(2) Problem reported so far only with Inon Z-220/240 strobes. Use S&S strobes if possible.

I noticed all dealers are VERY quiet on ttl converter/YS110 issue & not making a single comment here....

Sam

Sam,
I thought the problem you were having (electrolysis) was based on your housing's mounts (as you have stated above in (1), not the strobes as stated above in (2).
Bottom line, I have watched this thread with great interest. I am getting a S&S D-200 housing, and have 2 Inon Z220 strobes. From the previous post, I didn't think I had anything to worry about. Now.......you've got me re thinking. Hopefully, I'm just misunderstanding. Should this system work for me?

[shchae]

Brant,
Above my comment is based on what I learned from them. I also, like to hear from somebodyelse how they are using it.

Sam

[pakman]

Sam,
I thought the problem you were having (electrolysis) was based on your housing's mounts (as you have stated above in (1), not the strobes as stated above in (2).
Bottom line, I have watched this thread with great interest. I am getting a S&S D-200 housing, and have 2 Inon Z220 strobes. From the previous post, I didn't think I had anything to worry about. Now.......you've got me re thinking. Hopefully, I'm just misunderstanding. Should this system work for me?

Brant, I think you should be safe as you're purchasing a S&S housing. So far, I haven't had any issues with using 2 Inon Z-240's w/ my S&S TTL Converter and S&S housing (350D)

[docrobina]

Anyone try the Converter with a D80 camera in S&S housing with IKE 125s yet???

Does it shoot TTL??

[seagrant]

Thanks for good words....

Here is comment on S&S chart;

"This product (TTL Converter) is compatible only with the above SEA&SEA Housings and Strobes. Use of other equipment void product warranty."

Hence, it is all your fault from now on....Just like that......

Sam

This "quote" from Sea and Sea was not anywhere in writing when I purchased the Sea and Sea TTL unit in Nov 06 and was nowhere in writing at DEMA in brochures, product literature, etc. The Sea and Sea person at DEMA booth verbally told me that he couldn't vouch for the unit working with "other" housings but the unit would work with "other" manuf strobes - the ones listed, just be careful to check the compatibility list and the best way to insure it is working is to use Sea and Sea strobes with the Sea and Sea TTL converter. I told him I had just gotten the Sea and Sea 110s and he said that is the most important thing to insure it all works right!

So I guess it is our "fault" for trusting what the Sea and Sea rep says at DEMA and for getting the correct strobes that Sea and Sea said were the best to work with the converter. Also ULCS made an adapter for the Sea and Sea TTL unit to be mounted on the Subal ND20 housing (it was avail at DEMA early Nov). ULCS usually doesn't just make things with no research or data as they are a very smart company - so there must have been some data that the Sea and Sea TTL unit would work with other housings.

What a fiasco this is turning out to be.

Thanks for the info Sam, might be time for me just to get a refund instead of trying it out again. This might be best.

Carol

[shchae]

Carol,
Above"quote" was added on 18 Jan when they post new compatibility chart to S&S home page.

Sam

[shchae]

Brant, I think you should be safe as you're purchasing a S&S housing. So far, I haven't had any issues with using 2 Inon Z-240's w/ my S&S TTL Converter and S&S housing (350D)

Pakman,
When I first posted picture of my damaged i-ttl converter, I also, posted picture of my friend's
e-ttl converter right next to it. It had no external damage as you see in the picture. It has been
used for less than 10 dives.

First thing my friend noticed was 'orange' light instead of 'green' and he start getting dark pictures.
When he was thinking it maybe a battery issue but, it went back to normal & battrty was O.K.
Next day, it was showing same problem in underwater.( I was not there when he dove)

Both converters, his & mine, are in S&S for review. My friend uses 2 x Z240.

My dealer strongly says he and S&S never heard of problem with e-ttl converter from other person
(they were aware of problem with i-TTL converter)& my friend MAY got a bad converter and/or too
sensitive on the issue.

I really hope it is limited to me & my friend but, please, monitor your system when you use with
'other' strobes.

Sam

[underwatercolours]

If I look at all S&S sites, They just mention the compatibility with S&S housings. Does anyone understand why? I know that some of you has succesfully tested the converter with other housings and it seems it works. Does it happen by chance or there are some pre-requisistes to be satisfied to use the S&S converter? Why doesn't S&S say anything on that? I think it could be an opportunity for them.

When I first tried the TTL converter it was brand new and I was told by S&S that it had not been tested with the Ikelite strobes and they could not confirm that they would or would not work. If it damaged the TTL converter, housing or strobes it could not be supported by S&S. This was a risk I was willing to take. So maybe I should clarify that just because it worked for me, doesn't mean its going to work for someone else, especially when introducing new variables. Makes sense to me that a company would work to support their own products first before investing $$$$ in their competitors products for the sake of supporting them. There are people like me who are too impatient to wait, so we do it ourselves, at our own risk, but are happy to share the results. Not much different than any other new product.

Digital TTL is here to stay.......Making UW imaging easier

Ditto on that! I never thought I'd see the day that I'd be shooting TTL!

Bonnie

[pakman]

Sam, out of curiousity, which housing and camera does your friend use? And did he buy his converter at the same time you did?

I've got approx 50 dives on my setup without any problems so far (knock on wood). I just did a thorough inspection of my TTL converter, battery compartment, housing, and everything looks cleaned. Did some test shots to ensure all is OK... Excluding the YS-110 compatibility issue, I'm suspecting that there must have been a bad batch of these TTL converters. Anyways, I see S&S is doing the usual corporate "cover your ass" routine with the late compatibility annoucements but I do hope they take care of you and the others who have been having problems.

FYI, I recall my TTL Converter (Canon Mk 1) came with a yellow notice saying the converters were only compatible with specific S&S strobes (mine was purchased from Japan and came with the warning in Japanese).

[shchae]

(Oh...shoot...I forgot to mention what housing he was using.)

Pakman,
It was S&S 5D housing that I bought for him & converter and housing was purchased when it was first available in Japan.

Sam

Edited by shchae, 22 January 2007 - 12:29 PM.

[pakman]

It was S&S 5D housing that I bought for him & converter and housing was purchased when it was first available in Japan.

Oh... that's not what I wanted to hear... Well keep us posted if your friend continues having problems with his TTL converter.

[erik]

Erik and all,

Ryan at ReefPhoto is exchanging the 3rd Sea and Sea TTL converter I've used now for a TTL 2 converter as we speak due to the recent alteration in the Sea and Sea compatibility list for my Sea and Sea 110s. (Again note Ryan's superior service!)

Hi Carol, thank you.
I think you are in the right direction using TTL CONVERTER II also for some wideangle shots. I'm still testing it and sometimes a have good shots (good exposures) with Nikkor 20 mm F 2.8. Using this lens for closer shots the TTL works fines (in next days i will test Nikkor 10.5 Fisheye). You can see some examples with 20 mm here my page. The most difficult is to arrive to have good results when subjects are a bit war away, the TTL could not read the light very well and make some big exposure errors, for this reasons i will be use it in manual mode but i will continue my tests.
It's a big pleasure to look at your new photos of Manatees, i love very much your web pages. Last summer i was making photos to a Dugong in Marsa Alam (Egypt) I found this animal so sweet and with a big personality. Looking to your pages my interest into Manatee is growing up and i would come in Florida in the good season for Manatee to use my new TTL CONVERTER II. :-)
It will be a good time to take a look to manatees and to see the defferences between these animals and the Dugong. Here some shot of Dughy the gently Dugond of Abu Dabab (Marsa Alam Egypt). For the moment this dive site is not protected and to much divers and snorkellers come to see Dughy and sometimes with no respect... i hope that very soon Adu Dabab become a little protected area, we must protect Dugons like you protect Manatees in Florida.
I hope your wideangle shots with TTL CONVERTER will be very good, i'm waiting for new good pictures of Manatees, shots Carol and publish your new pictures pls. :-)

PS: i'm waiting to test the new Ys-250 with TTL CONVERTER.... good luck! :-)


Using SEA&SEA TTL converter with no Sea&Sea Housing: i will be a good idea to make a little compatibility table to put on line...so maybe all people using converter with no Sea&Sea housing are invited to post and give us more informations. A good idea, i think, to help UW photographers.

Many thanks and sorry for my poor english

ERIK
www.erikhenchoz.com

[Berkley]

Howdy folks...

Jim Decker here at Backscatter has tested various combinations of Sea & Sea TTL Controllers, strobes, and housings over the last few months. Planned to post results on our site, but haven't completed testing. We received so many calls from this post, that I thought I should share our rough preliminary results. Skip below for the test results...

My 2 cents on digital TTL:
Personally, I'm not jonesing for TTL, but I'd welcome a good solution that auto-corrects for quick changes in strobe to subject distances. Unfortunately, digital TTL is not as easy as it sounds. Each camera has unique code and the strobe manufacturers are struggling to keep up even in the topside world.

We've tried the various in-housing TTL circuits with poor results on compatibility and reliability. The Sea & Sea controller has been the most field worthy system with our clients, but it suffers from the same issues we had with film TTL years ago.... fragile sync cord connector design.

All sync connector designs (Nikonos, Ikelite, Subtronic, Wetlink, EO, Nelson, ICS) are not robust enough for sloppy, low maintenance, marine use. I'm working on a new design, but welcome others to get involved. If you shot film TTL, then you know how difficult it is to keep 5-6 pins connected at low voltage.

If you're a new shooter looking to make one of these digital TTL systems work, treat your sync connections like an open wound. Keep it clean and dry.. let it breathe. Don't pop out a sync cord and slap on the caps and plugs as you'll just be sealing in the moisture. Carefully clean and install your sync cords in good light (with glasses if necessary). If you're not willing to do this level of maintenance, I'd recommend you stick to manual strobe technique as manual connection requires less maintenance...

>>>>>>>

Test notes:
The below tests were performed in our product photo booth, not underwater.

Sea & Sea TTL controller testing results--Strobes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Strobes must be in TTL mode.
Must turn controller on first.
Controller passes preflash signals to strobes.
Strobes working correctly emit multiple flashes (preflash).
All tests performed with Nikon camera bodies and N version Controllers.

Works with accurate exposures:
Sea & Sea YS-90
Sea & Sea YS-90dx
Sea & Sea YS-120
Sea & Sea YS-110 (controller version II only)

Fires multiple preflashes and main flash, but exposure is not correct:
Ikelite DS125
Ikelite DS200
Inon Z240
Inon D2000W/Wn
Sea and Sea YS-350

Fires only first preflash, but not remaining preflashes, will not fire the main flash:
Nikon SB-105
Ikelite DS-50
Ikelite SS-50


Sea and Sea TTL controller testing results—Cameras / Housings >>>>>>>>>>>>>

Each housing manufacturer has unique sync circuit wiring. New Sea & Sea housings with a "controller" labeled sync port are good to go. Older Sea & Sea housings need modification. All Subal and Aquatica housings need electronic modification to prevent a feedback loop... except the Nikon D200 housing which will work with full 5 pin sync ports.

Nikon D200: works with Sea & Sea, Subal, Aquatica 5 pin sync ports

Nikon D70: requires 5 pin sync port modified for ground isolation

D2X, D2Xs: does not work with or without isolation mod. Strobe does full dump, no preflashes.

D100, D50: no complete testing performed

Canon cameras: Minimal testing performed. Housings will need the special Sea and Sea 6 pin strobe bulkhead. Currently only available for the Sea and Sea housings. Comes stock in Sea and Sea 5D housing. Special modification available to add Sea & Sea 6-pin bulkhead to Subal, Aquatica, and older Sea & Sea housings.

>>>>>>>>

Cheers,
Berkley White

Backscatter
http://www.backscatter.com
831-645-1082

[pakman]

Interesting results... thanks for posting Berkley

[erik]

Howdy folks...

Jim Decker here at Backscatter has tested various combinations of Sea & Sea TTL Controllers, strobes, and housings over the last few months. Planned to post results on our site, but haven't completed testing. We received so many calls from this post, that I thought I should share our rough preliminary results. Skip below for the test results...

Very good, thank you Berkley. With your permmission i will translate it on my italian web site i found very interesting and a lot of italian UW photographers will be interestes to read it!

Many thanks

ERIK
www.erikhenchoz.com