8 replies to this topic

[CamDiver]

Here's a shot of yesterdays adventure......OK, so they are in a captive facility but better there than ending up as cat chow as they were originally intended.



8 of these Pacific Bottlenose Dolphins inhabit the Dolphins Pacific facility in Palau which was in part set up and funded by one of Sony's top execs who also happens to have two invalid sons, pretty much done it for them.

Cheers,
Mark.

[MikeVeitch]

actually Mark, the whole dolphin thing is very contentious. A lot of the dolphin round up things in Japan and elsewhere are done specifically because there is such a $$ demand for dolphins in captivity.



But there are definite pro (good education etc) and against ($$ to create more demand etc) camps out there

BUt a cool shot nonetheless

[CamDiver]

I hear ya Mike.

[Steve Douglas]

Mark,
Love the shot, there is a real 3D depth to it. Really excellent.
Steve

[wagsy]

Great shot Mark
What DSLR were you using?

[Scuba_SI]

Mark,

I am not trying to start a poo-flinging argument on here, but your posts are normally pretty extreme when it comes to expressing your opinions about what is right/wrong for us to do as divers, especially with regards to no touching and animal harassment.

Doesn't this photo, and Dolphin Pacific, go against everything that you have been arguing for in your other posts?

Each to their own, but i would count myself as less extreme in my ecological views than yourself (these tend to get compromised running a liveaboard) and i have touched a wild dolphin before, and i like feeding sharks.... But i would count Dolphins Pacific as being one of the most hideous things any tourist can go to, to the point where i refused to go and video our clients there when i worked in Palau.

Dolphin encounters can be therapeutic for persons with disabilities, but does that give us the right to cage them? And, the vast sums of money they charge for the 'experiences'.. where does it go?

Not trying to drag this thread too far off point here, it is a cool shot, i am just very surprised to see you post it.

[Steve Douglas]

Scuba SI,
While there are many who feel strongly against these type of facilities, as well as shark feeds, it is these very things which greatly raises awareness of the need to protect and preserve our marine life. If anything, Mark's picture shows a communing gentleness and positive interaction, not a harrassment of the dolphin. While you might already be enlightened as to the dangers of creature mistreatment, finning and stressing marine life, most, sadly, are not.
I see nothing wrong or hypocritical in Mark's excellent shot.
Steve B)

[CamDiver]

Hi Simon,
Thanks for raising those points. As this is a public forum this is a great way to discuss such ideals, matters and opinions. Not everyone shares my views, in general we should feel happy to live in a society where we are allowed to air our opinions, to have the freedom of speech.

To answer your points:

I am not trying to start a poo-flinging argument on here, but your posts are normally pretty extreme when it comes to expressing your opinions about what is right/wrong for us to do as divers, especially with regards to no touching and animal harassment.

Extreme in what way? Insofar as I prefer to show respect to the space and surroundings of my subjects? This is a basic courtesy that should be extended by all underwater imaging divers to all and any marine creatures they encounter. Those who flout this courtesy for the sake of "getting the shot" should not, IMHO, try to consider themselves professionals. Anyone can manipulate the scene and set a stage to convey photographically. I don't see that as being extremist as a view, I see that as being respectful to my subjects and honest in my work ethic.

Each to their own, but i would count myself as less extreme in my ecological views than yourself (these tend to get compromised running a liveaboard) and i have touched a wild dolphin before, and i like feeding sharks.... But i would count Dolphins Pacific as being one of the most hideous things any tourist can go to, to the point where i refused to go and video our clients there when i worked in Palau.

I commend you on your ethical convictions Simon, as you say "each to their own". Stand by them, thats what forms us as individuals. There will always be points of contention to any issue. Whether its true or not we were told by the guides that these Dolphins had been saved from one of the many dolphin roundups and slaughters in Japan. Now whilst I may not honestly agree with the whole ideal of animals in captivity what other option would be open to these dolphins? There are not so many people out there looking out for the welfare of animals these days. OK, so the people who took charge of these dolphins are making quite a bit of cash out of it they are also a registered non-profit so all revenue goes back into the facility. As far as we know! If you are willing to contend that then you would need concrete evidence to the contrary.

Personally I feel the dolphins at this facility are not exactly 100% captive. They started out their life in the wild so they do have the ability and knowledge to be able to fend for themselves in the wild. You've seen the set up at Dolphins Pacific so you know the layout. Now, Dolphins being as smart as we believe them to be would obviously try to get away from conditions they are not happy with. It is well within the capability of the dolphins at that facility to get out if they so desired. there are no barbed wire fences, no tall walls to scale, just a bunch of floating docks a few feet wide. Two jumps and the Dolphins would be free. I guess one has to ask oneself why they don't flee? Lack of predators, easy food and people looking after them 24/7, an easy life in anyone's books. I don't think they are forced to do anything they don't want to and all 'in water' interactions between the dolphins and people are canceled when the dolphins show no interest.

You know, it makes me laugh sometimes. We sit down watching Animal Planet or other such wildlife programs and idealist advertising tells us if the Ivory Trade were to be completely banished then Africa would become home to a further 500,000 Elephants. That advertisement is then followed by a program highlighting the ever increasing problems faced by Elephants and humans as they battle for land and survival. *Dreamy Haze Transition* to a perfect Utopia where Man and Beast co-exist in perfect harmony, where inter species respect allows for complete understanding of our differing needs, where the environment comes first. Then the bubble bursts with the cold reality of life where on one hand we want to stop the exploitation of animals but yet when we, as a species, deem an animal to be either dangerous or when it becomes a threat to the 'safety of people' it becomes an acceptable practice to 'neutralize the threat'. Look at the public outcry when a shark bites someone. The shark is only doing what sharks do.

Some people may think me cynical and dark but in reality lets think about what the future holds for any animal species on our planet. For a moment, lets just cast our views aside, lets look at the real future facing us and all other species. As mankind's population explodes, as the water levels rise, as the demand for food increases and the fight for space escalates what kind of signal of hope does that transmit to the future Whale, Dolphin, Shark, Panda, Elephant, Rhino and Turtle populations of our planet? It doesn't bode too well in my understanding of the situation. Best get out there now and get the imagery for the future. If that means having to lower ones personal ethical barriers then thats for the individual to decide. I personally will not manipulate animals to get a shot, physically move from one spot to another when found in their 'natural' environment. If others filming or snapping next to me choose to do so then thats their call. I can only say what I will or won't do. If, however, I find myself with the chance to film an animal in captivity as a direct result of human intervention in its very existence and if the resulting imagery can, in some way, be used to highlight the negative side of the situation so that we can learn from that then I see no morale issue with it.

One sad, but all too real truth, of modern day wildlife photography is that for a large part a lot of the images we see of the more 'exotic' of species in magazines, books and the like are actually taken in captive breeding facilities. A lot easier to control the animal which would otherwise prove elusive and difficult (read expensive) to locate. How many of the macro sequences we see in the amazing documentaries these days are filmed in controlled aquarium environments? The answer is not "some" it's "most"! This all points to the lack of availability with regards to the numbers of animal species left on the planet. That and reduced budgets to film animals in their natural surroundings.

Given the current, and increasing, decimation of natural resources, space and animal species for the sake of commercial growth some of our interactions are borne from situations created directly by mans actions. These interactions, positive or negative depending on your personal politics, may, in reality, be the only options open to us in the not so distant future should we continue in our desire to document the behavior of animals. Such a shame.

These are my thoughts. Not trying to force them down anyone's necks. Just put out there for discussions sake.

Cheers,
Mark.

[Scuba_SI]

Hi Simon,

<snip>

These are my thoughts. Not trying to force them down anyone's necks. Just put out there for discussions sake.

Cheers,
Mark.

Hi Mark,

Some good points there, i guess it's easy to get an inaccurate view when things are written in forums and not in the spoken word over a beer, i shall take time to digest your comments, and if i theres anything i disagree with i shall come back! (although i just ordered a bintang, so it might be some time before my mind works!)

I do agree that in the scheme of 'Dolphinariums' the little fellas at Dolphins Pacific could have it a lot worse!

pm'ing you some other info...