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What would you buy?


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#1 Jules (Helioxfilm)

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 03:18 AM

Hi,

I am considering to buy a second set of uw video gear. (Or as the lonely set if I sell the Z1). Unfortunately I do not want to have worse picture quality and control as my Z1' capability but I would like to have a significantly smaller camcorder and housing for it. And 24p or more. Are there any choices besides the V1 and the Canon G1? Pakman's HC7 footage seems to be (technically speaking) quite good quality, however manul shutter, iris controls are missing. Or these features can be accessed with the assign buttons for which the Gates offers controls?

The size is important because of the flights.

Any magic advice...?

Jules

#2 Drew

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 03:59 AM

Gyula... what's the budget?

There are a few cameras shooting 24P now. The Canon HV20 and Sony V1 are progressive sensors. The XH-A/G1 are not progressive sensors but the product is 24P. the question is do you want to live with HDV still?

For example, the Endeavor is about 12kg fully fitted with cameras and batteries. Your Phenom is about 16kg with camera. That's 25% less weight and about 15-20% less bulk. The pelican case,1620 with housing is only 20kg.
The review should be out by next week. You can wait to see if it's worth looking at then.

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#3 ronrosa

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 05:01 AM

Jeeze Drew, still teasing us with your FX7 Endeavor review. Can't you give us any hints ?

I have my Gates housing. It's solid, well designed, access to all the controls, viewfinder works fine, external monitor great. I'll get it in the water Aug 11-18.

#4 Jules (Helioxfilm)

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 09:59 AM

Gyula... what's the budget?

There are a few cameras shooting 24P now. The Canon HV20 and Sony V1 are progressive sensors. The XH-A/G1 are not progressive sensors but the product is 24P. the question is do you want to live with HDV still?

For example, the Endeavor is about 12kg fully fitted with cameras and batteries. Your Phenom is about 16kg with camera. That's 25% less weight and about 15-20% less bulk. The pelican case,1620 with housing is only 20kg.
The review should be out by next week. You can wait to see if it's worth looking at then.



Well,

the budget could cover the Endeavour with the HD-monitor and the 94 wide angle lens. The size data you provided are one of the biggest reasons to switch. HDV is a good question, I think I simple do not have any other possibilities within this budget - about 10 000 EUR or 14 500 USD. Since I have the big and the small Amphibico Discovery HID lights, it seems to me, it is better if I stay with their housings - in this case Canon is not a choice. However, I would appreciate, if Amphibico would produce a tripod for the housings as well as Gates...

24p is also preferable, however, 60p would be much better, as the HVX200 does, but that setup has its own weight as well...

The G1 or the V1 has the capability to produce 4:2:2, with true HD resolution, HDMI or HD-SDI, which features I could use during topside productions, simple put my mac pro with my existing Kona capture card, or with a blackmagic intensify card next to the dolly or whatever, and capturing the HD-stream during shooting.

I would wait for the XDCAM EX, but I need a setup for the SanDisk Red Sea Shoot-out in this November - however, finally I could rent a gear for those 4-5 days (if I would sold until that date my Z1). However, the XDCAM will be heavier as the Z1 setup...

Anyway, I am currently thinking besides buying a new gear, whether is it better to rent a gear for shooting? I guess this is a good solution - if you have a tight and precise storyboard and you can plan, how many days you need a setup. For every other purpose to buy a cheaper setup would be smarter.

I think to make a storyboard and make memories a HC7 or smaller setup is enough - even for a shootout.

Since I am not always in the water (unfortunately), I try to find the best solution to save some money. I have learnt that the worst investment is when your money is just standing somewhere and do nothing. Teh other side is, when I am in the water I would like to get the best (speaking now about the technical side) from my setup (and myself).

As it seems, I have recently to much time for thinking.... :ninja:

So I am eagerly waiting for your report on the Endeavour. The guys at the Amphibico told me, it would be a big backstep for me from the Phenom... Since you had a chance to shoot with much more housings and camcorders than me, I am very curious...

#5 ronrosa

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 10:42 AM

.....
So I am eagerly waiting for your report on the Endeavour. The guys at the Amphibico told me, it would be a big backstep for me from the Phenom... Since you had a chance to shoot with much more housings and camcorders than me, I am very curious...


That is a strong statement from Amphibico. I wonder if it is a reflection on the camcorder, housing or both.

#6 Jules (Helioxfilm)

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 10:53 AM

That is a strong statement from Amphibico. I wonder if it is a reflection on the camcorder, housing or both.


I guess both. The Phenom has the top window, two very nice wheels on each grip to adjust zoom and manual focus, these are not on the Endeavour. The V1 makes similar pictures as the Z1, the 24p is a big step, which is not needed, if your target is an interlaced TV, and you do not make to much post-production works, where the interlace is not so warmly welcomed.

Edited by Jules (Helioxfilm), 02 August 2007 - 10:54 AM.


#7 Drew

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:08 PM

Well Jules, the 24P on the V1 is much higher resolution than the Z1 CF24 but still HDV. There are a few image controls that the V1 has over the Z1. I doubt you'd be jumping any where with the image quality except for resolution.
If size is your primary concern and a must to switch, then the V1 is a nice alternative. But for $15k, I can pay for a lot of overweight luggage for a year. In fact, I'd just upgrade my flights to business or first class.
If you want 24P in a small package, the Canon HV20 is awesome. I'm thinking of it for my macro kit. Just have to find a good housing for it.

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#8 Jules (Helioxfilm)

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:32 PM

The small Canon could be a nice alternative... During my recent search I found this page:

http://www.lesnumeri...=...2=1144&ph=5

According to this site, the picture made by the Canon is quite good.

Edited by Jules (Helioxfilm), 02 August 2007 - 12:34 PM.


#9 Jules (Helioxfilm)

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:50 PM

Just found:

http://www.seatoolus.../hv10/index.php

They offer a hosuing for the HC7 as well, and according to the site, it has access to iris, shutter, WB settings...

#10 Drew

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:55 PM

The canon sensors give the highest resolution images right now. The HV20 actually outresolves your Z1 in bright conditions.
The problem is finding a housing.

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#11 jonny shaw

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 02:04 PM

I know I am jumping the gun Drew and I don't want to steal your thunder but from your V1 shooting how do you think that it held up compared to the Z1 in low light?

I think that it will still be interesting when Gates finally release the A1 / G1 housing as this could be a great underwater camera.

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#12 bwdiver

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 03:21 PM

The canon sensors give the highest resolution images right now. The HV20 actually outresolves your Z1 in bright conditions.
The problem is finding a housing.

I have decided on the Gates for the V1, after getting the camera as a gift from my wife.
There's always a catch...She has the little Canon HV20 to use for fun and decided she wanted to be able to shoot video with me.
Marine Visions is taking orders for the Ikelite housing for the HV20, so we went ahead and ordered one. They aren't shipping for a couple weeks, so she'll just have to wait till the next trip to use hers.

Billy

#13 Jules (Helioxfilm)

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 03:38 PM

I have decided on the Gates for the V1, after getting the camera as a gift from my wife.
There's always a catch...She has the little Canon HV20 to use for fun and decided she wanted to be able to shoot video with me.
Marine Visions is taking orders for the Ikelite housing for the HV20, so we went ahead and ordered one. They aren't shipping for a couple weeks, so she'll just have to wait till the next trip to use hers.

Billy


Could you upload a minute long footage with the two cams on the same subject with auto settings? I can provide you some upload space. Topside footage would be good.

#14 ronscuba

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 05:08 PM

I have decided on the Gates for the V1, after getting the camera as a gift from my wife.
There's always a catch...She has the little Canon HV20 to use for fun and decided she wanted to be able to shoot video with me.
Marine Visions is taking orders for the Ikelite housing for the HV20, so we went ahead and ordered one. They aren't shipping for a couple weeks, so she'll just have to wait till the next trip to use hers.

Billy


That will be a very interesting comparison. I think the differences underwater will be greater than topside. The Gates easy access to the manual controls is a big plus. I can't wait to get mine underwater and I will definitely be posting a review with clips when I get back.

#15 pakman

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 07:11 PM

Pakman's HC7 footage seems to be (technically speaking) quite good quality, however manul shutter, iris controls are missing.


Jules, hahaha, no need to be so polite... we are among friends here... :ninja:

BTW, the Seatool HC7 housing only has access to the WB shift, not full manual white balance control. The Seatool, like the Gates and L&M has access to the one roller control upfront on the HC7 (see pic below). This can be assigned on the fly (albeit a bit cumbersome) and you can then have access to Manual Focus, Manual Exposure, Shutter Speed, AE Shift, and WB Shift. The WB Shift only provides small subtle adjustments and is really only useful for topside. I don't think it will help u/w that much. MWB can only be accessed through the touch LCD screen.

Posted Image

Edited by pakman, 02 August 2007 - 07:12 PM.

Canon 40D, S&S MDX-40D housing, Inon Z-240's
Sony HC7 & Gates Housing
 


#16 wagsy

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 08:40 PM

After thinking some.... I think my next rig will be a XDCAM EX, abit down the track.
The VBR to 35mbps should help with the HDV motion blur abit better and it has the huge 1/2 inch chip.

Just hope they can make the housings abit smaller to lug around with and have a URPRO + Macro flip arms.
Put one in a Canadian box with the 94 degree port on with me new 16.9 monitor bolted on top and I would be happy until the next new Sony cam comes out :ninja: .
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#17 sjspeck

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 08:45 PM

Just found:

http://www.seatoolus.../hv10/index.php

They offer a hosuing for the HC7 as well, and according to the site, it has access to iris, shutter, WB settings...

Since you're looking at Seatool, here's other options their parent company (Fisheye) offers: http://www.fisheye-j...lish/index.html

I've held the Seatool HC3 housing, it's tiny compared to my EVO.

fwiw, my EVO does fit in a US airline approved size roller bag with room left over for some clothes/tapes. I think the smaller Amphibico lights would fit also. My bag is 14x22" (outside dimension) and the EVO is just over 11" long. But I don't have the back monitor that's standard on the new "Elite" model.

I'm pretty certain I've recently seen a new FX7 housing also. They were promoting it as the smallest FX7 housing made. Either made by Fisheye or Sea&Sea.

Ryan @Reef Photo/Video imports Seatool to the U.S. He might know if an HV20 housing is in the works...

Edited by sjspeck, 02 August 2007 - 09:25 PM.


#18 MikeVeitch

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 08:47 PM

I put all my hope in you Wags that you get the XDcam to fit in the phenom... you can then retro fit mine...

:ninja:

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#19 CamDiver

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 09:30 PM

Yeah, I think if you remove the lens assembly, viewfinder, mic and flip lcd you'll able to fit it in OK. Mind you if you use BluTac instead of the mounting plate you may even be able to keep the mic, just so the viewer can hear the pandemonium at flood time!!

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#20 wagsy

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 12:30 AM

I put all my hope in you Wags that you get the XDcam to fit in the phenom... you can then retro fit mine...

:ninja:


Well there are some that are trying just that :P

Posted Image
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