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Sony PMW-EX1 (aka XDCAM EX) Official Thread


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#141 Drew

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 02:25 AM

Well one thing I would check for and it seems no one is doing, is the rolling shutter partial exposure effect. For those who shoot trip dailies vids with shooters, this could be a factor in choice of camera, especially if there's a whole lotta strobin goin on.
I know that someone claims to have invoked skewing on the CMOS sensor of the EX1 on Youtube. I'll try it out later this week myself if I have the time.
Phil Bloom's choice of VU for the soundtrack sure makes my mom happy.

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#142 Jules (Helioxfilm)

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 02:30 AM

Well one thing I would check for and it seems no one is doing, is the rolling shutter partial exposure effect. For those who shoot trip dailies vids with shooters, this could be a factor in choice of camera, especially if there's a whole lotta strobin goin on.


Drew,

I will go this afternoon to my local dealer who finally got the unit. I would test it, just tell me how to do it topside...

And, which phenomenon means bad thing and which means good...

#143 Drew

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 02:47 AM

It's easy... shoot in 24P at 1/24 or even 1/48. Have a flash go off a few times. It should either show nothing or when you have the file, bring it back to an NLE and check out the frames, if the effect is there, you will have partial exposure for the frame and the other part dark. Usually for about 2 frames.
Skewing is easier, shake the camera in 24P at 1/24 or 1/48. Skewing is less important for underwater unless you are shooting wrecks. Still the effects shouldn't manifest because you wouldn't pan that fast. Closeup high action like baitballs, you could get it to skew but the effect is minimal that only the pixel peepers would bitch.

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#144 Jules (Helioxfilm)

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 04:06 AM

Ok,

thanks. I picked my macbook pro, a small compact still camara and will check soon. If anyone has a special request for my half an hour test-drive, post it. (Within 2 hours.)

Jules

#145 Nick Hope

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 06:08 AM

Is anyone else wondering what skewing is and how one might invoke it? :)

#146 CamDiver

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 07:32 AM

Isn't it something one tends to anticipate doing to some unsuspecting victim after twenty sherberts??

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#147 Drew

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 08:13 AM

Nick, do a search on google for rolling shutter effect. The Skew word will pop up. :)
The EX1 is more advanced than most of the examples out there... including the HV20 canon.
Really the only concerns are for people who shoot in high vibration environments like vehicles or hand held shooting.
The bigger concern is partial exposure caused by flashing strobe or big bright lights. Every digitizer from XDCAM down will break down with strobes... the compression just can't handle it. The partial exposure affects at least 2 frames (depending on the strobe exposure). Actually I've wondered if lightning can cause it to breakdown too. Unfortunately I won't be in a thunderstorm area to test it for at least a few weeks and when i'm there, I don't want it to rain. :D
Gyula, the EX1 should work fine for your needs... but so will your V1 LOL.

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#148 Jules (Helioxfilm)

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 08:30 AM

Well, I came back.

And I can not import the clips into my FCP 6.0.2...

I can see them in the xdcam clip browser, but I can not import them. Preset is the xd ex preset...

Generally I like the sxs card workflow... The LCD screen is extremle sharp, and the menu is much better looking then the V1, Z1. Unfortunately it does not matter to much :)

The lens system was very new for me since I have never worked with such kind of lenses, but I can understand why people like them.

I try to get the clips to the timeline and post them here.

As for the V1, Drew, I was very satisfied with its macro capabilities, and the overall performance with the light and small Sealux housing (a detailed preview coming soon), but my needs needs the RED :D

Jules

#149 Drew

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 09:12 AM

Did you download the XDCAM transfer app? That's what you need to remove the MP4 wrapper to import into FCP.
Red schmed ... I want a Phantom HD.... 1000fps at 2k :)

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#150 DeanB

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 10:50 AM

Boys who want bigger toys...

Ha,ha....

Dive safe

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#151 Jules (Helioxfilm)

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 11:22 AM

Did you download the XDCAM transfer app? That's what you need to remove the MP4 wrapper to import into FCP.
Red schmed ... I want a Phantom HD.... 1000fps at 2k :)



I am maybe undereducated, but this transfer app does not recognize the files which I copied into my hard drive from the sxs card...

#152 Drew

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 06:07 PM

It's not you Gyula, it's Sony's silly way of programming. You don't select each clip but you have to put it on the desktop. Then add the desktop and it should come out. A convoluted silly way to do it but Sony assumes you'll always be working with the SxS cards.

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#153 videodan

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 06:09 PM

Here is a good article about SENSOR ARTIFACTS AND CMOS ROLLING SHUTTER by Barry Green. I am very interested to find out how well the CMOS sensors in the EX1 will work underwater compared to CCD's. Will you get skew while panning a wreck? Will you get wobble while following a fast moving fish? The EX1 is said to exhibit all of these artifacts, but to a lesser degree than other CMOS cameras, but how will it compare to CCD cameras? I fortunately have never had smear with my CCD camera, but am agonizing over these CMOS traits and how it will affect underwater shooting. Any help or advice will be appreciated. Otherwise I will wait for Wagsy to be our "guinea pig", before considering an upgrade. :)
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#154 Drew

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 07:45 PM

Since perfection is individual, then the cameras are compromises too.
Looking at RED, EX1,HV20 and V1 clips, I'd have to say that the majority of users won't break the CMOS sensor. Well ok, the HV20 in high frequency vibration is pretty susceptible to the wobbles dance. So don't use a HV20 in a gyrocopter shot.
Skewing underwater is more difficult to tell because there are no straightlines. For it to significantly manifest, you'd have to be shooting at 180-360° shutter. At those speeds, if you pan fast, you get motion blur, and the effects of skewing are blended into that. Only if you try slomo will it show significantly. Anyone shooting slomo at 180-360° shutter deserves to have skewing :)
Someone who shoots with strobes flashing regularly should check to see if it is objectionable. To me it is but I know what to look for and try to remove it in post. 2 consecutive frames can't be removed so it's a problem for me. I'd tested it with normal folk and no one said, hey there's macroblocking when the flash went off. BUT they did mention the flash was ugly, but couldn't say why. The best way to prevent this is just avoid still photogs altogether :D Not something that can be avoided when shooting trip videos for clients though.

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#155 Jules (Helioxfilm)

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 10:57 PM

It's not you Gyula, it's Sony's silly way of programming. You don't select each clip but you have to put it on the desktop. Then add the desktop and it should come out. A convoluted silly way to do it but Sony assumes you'll always be working with the SxS cards.


Hm, I put them into the destop, in a folder and whitout a folder as well but it says: no clips...

I will go back and try it with the sxs card.

#156 Drew

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 01:02 AM

Ah but did you add the desktop and not the folder. That's the most important thing.

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#157 Jules (Helioxfilm)

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 01:08 AM

Ah but did you add the desktop and not the folder. That's the most important thing.


No, no, I try both way. The files are on the desktop and I add the desktop in the apps...

#158 Drew

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 01:45 AM

hmmm strange... suggest you reinstall XDCAM transfer and SxS card drivers and try again.
Also you're not running Leopard are you? Leopard will screw up everything! :)

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#159 Jules (Helioxfilm)

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 01:48 AM

hmmm strange... suggest you reinstall XDCAM transfer and SxS card drivers and try again.
Also you're not running Leopard are you? Leopard will screw up everything! :)


No, Leo is still in its cage, I have .11. Today or tomorrow I will go back and try again with the card.

#160 Drew

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 04:33 AM

Well I suggest you figure out why XDCAM transfer isn't working on your computer. Otherwise, you'll still have that problem when you buy your EX1 :)
I suggest you reinstall Transfer AND the SxS plugin as well. I haven't had a problem at all. The interface is stupid though and the extra step of removing the wrapper is also silly. But that's why you get for playing with propriety codecs.

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