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Nikon D3 & D300


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#21 John Bantin

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 12:16 AM

I would guess that the whole business of new model changes with DSLRs so often must be a nightmare for any housing manufacturer since it must be so hard for them to make their casting investments pay off in the short term. I bet we will see a few go out of business unless people are prepared to pay premium prices. Lets's face it, housings are made as a a rule by a one-man-and-a dog outfit (Not you Ikelite and Sea & Sea!)

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#22 Scuba_SI

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 12:49 AM

I thought Nexus had a back to fit the D80 into a D70/s housing?


I absolutely believe this would have been possible. I was told that it was 100% possible by a dealer in Asia and others here on wetpixel. I was also told by the dealer in Asia that he was waiting on pricing, then about a month later he said they were unable(willing) to do it.

My understanding is that it would have taken one extra mounting position to be drilled into the housing and a redesigned plexiglass back from posts on here and the rumours/comments that the first few D80 housings were repackaged D70 housings.

Rather than going to housing manufacturers with questions about retrofitting, maybe we should club together and approach a good machine shop.

From a housing manufacturers standpoint, why offer someone a $500 upgrade when you know they are tied in by ports and will probably end up upgrading and buying a new $2000+ housing within 18 months. I just can't see the aluminium-cast housing manufacturers going for it. They have to keep up with the new cameras and that has associated overheads with designs and casting, and as John mentioned, the runs of a casting are now much shorter.

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#23 james

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 05:16 AM

If you go to the Japanese Nexus (Anthis) site you'll see that they have the D70-D80 conversion option listed on their front page. So it has always been an option - maybe just not so easy for US customers.

If you're interested in looking into housing conversions, ScubaStu posted quite a bit about his Subal 10D to 5D conversion kit, made by Canadian machinist Bill Reed. It seems to work quite well.

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#24 paquito

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 05:39 AM

To me, it makes more sense from a manufacturing standpoint to make a new back for such subtle changes.

-You don’t have to retool so much of the machinery and your parts orders are consistent.
-You have less time spent on R & D.
-You don’t have to spend as much time and effort to figure out your costs, you already know what the front of the housing costs you, the back is not going to change that much.
-You have customers who are willing going to pick up a new second camera body because a back up option is now so easily obtainable. Whereas the downside would be, that if you as a manufacturer force the customer to have to chose to buy a whole new housing if you want a second body, then I frankly see a lot of your existing customers simply holding off. Think about it, if you have to buy a whole new housing, I would certainly wait to see what a new D400 would do for me over the new D300 which isn’t going to be as much of a jump over the D200. (I think a lot of people are happy with their D200) If I have to buy a new housing, I’ll buy a D400 (speculative model) housing or a D3 housing before you get me to buy a D300 housing because you simply wouldn’t create a new back for the D200 housings. But, on the otherhand, if I have a D200 housing and you tell me you are going to manufacturer a new back and perhaps a new tray, I’m all in, credit card in hand along with a D300 body.
-You get a lot of the D200 owners who haven’t yet made the plunge to get off the fence and in the game because they know that if they ever flood or upgrade or pick up a D300 body in the future that they can easily house it as well. Getting a lot of those customers who haven’t yet housed their D200 to know their housings would be less obsolete than their cameras is a smart move by a manufacturer!
-You not only gain a multitude of sales from pre-existing customers and new customers alike, but you also gain tremendous loyalty.

No, housing manufacturers make money, DSLRs are more popular than ever and right now the Euro is only helping them. For others like Zillion, they are manufacturing for a third of the cost. No offense, but these are not one man outfits, these are professional business people with a company like any other.
And good for them! If they make nice products and provide good service, they deserve to prosper.

But I think my cynicism lies in the overall marketplace and what has developed with a lot of companies who don’t understand they are meeting the needs of a small market place in a niche environment. Earning and getting repeat business is key to these manufacturer’s future success. Those who don’t get that are the ones you will see fall by the wayside.

If camera manufacturer’s are going to make such a closely cloned product, it is an opportunity for these housing manufacturers to really win over more customers and save on costs while doing it.

#25 scorpio_fish

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 05:40 AM

Based on the time it took Light & Motion to come out with the Titan DSLR to accommodate the D200, wonder what their plans are??? :blush:


Just speculation, but I think that if the D200 and the D300 are dimensionally, electronically and firmware similar, L&M may have a better chance of producing a D300 housing sooner than others. The Titan uses electronic controls. It is of less concern where buttons are located.

The housing manufacturers will do whatever makes the most sense. The biggest issue with the digital revolution is the shortness of the product life cycle. Getting a product out there quickly is of paramount importance.

I was just on a boat with someone who had the Titan. Despite being the size and weight of a small dinghy, it had some great features. The camera battery was only good for 2 dives, though.
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#26 diverdon

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 07:24 AM

I am a Subal D200 owner. I believe that it should be possible to modify the existing Subal D200 Housing back to accommodate the D300. Adding or rearranging the offset plastic thingies to the required hull penetrations seems simple enough. I painted the new control locations of the D300 onto this pic of a D200 back to give a idea of what I am talking about.

The straight push buttons will be easy. The focus mode selector may be a little more complicated, but I think that can be made to work also. What do you think?

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#27 seagrant

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 10:50 AM

I am a Subal D200 owner. I believe that it should be possible to modify the existing Subal D200 Housing back to accommodate the D300. Adding or rearranging the offset plastic thingies to the required hull penetrations seems simple enough. I painted the new control locations of the D300 onto this pic of a D200 back to give a idea of what I am talking about.

The straight push buttons will be easy. The focus mode selector may be a little more complicated, but I think that can be made to work also. What do you think?


Interesting pic thanks!! I don't know....., but remember too that the TTL/electronics might be a bit different d200 to d300 also.

Maybe it is a pipe dream to think that I could use both the d200 and d300 in my Subal ND20 with maybe an additional back and tray from Subal?

But again it would be nice and hopefully our enthusiasm for this will be noted by Subal and the others!! :-) Carol

PS - When I talked to the L & M guys at DEMA last year they said their housing was made specifically with the idea in mind to upgrade that particular housing to new Nikon camera models (updates to the d200). It will be seen how easy it is to upgrade their electronics, etc to an updated camera. Still I think they had the right idea and I would have gone with L & M if their housing hadn't been delayed so long!! But still I like my Subal ND20 - I'm happy and will be happier if Subal will find a way to let me use a d300 in the ND20 - without buying a whole new housing as they are such similar cameras - then I'll really be a loyal Subal customer. C :blush:

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#28 Stefin

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 01:31 PM

I am a Subal D200 owner. I believe that it should be possible to modify the existing Subal D200 Housing back to accommodate the D300. Adding or rearranging the offset plastic thingies to the required hull penetrations seems simple enough. I painted the new control locations of the D300 onto this pic of a D200 back to give a idea of what I am talking about.

The straight push buttons will be easy. The focus mode selector may be a little more complicated, but I think that can be made to work also. What do you think?

I think that we should all be a bit more concerned by what this post has flagged up.

In that last pic the D300 lens mouting flange seemes off center with the nexus port opening. this could simply be the angle of the photo, but can you confirm if it was centered or not??

otherwise it looks good and i'm hoping aquatica will make a modified back as I already have my D300 preordered!!

If the lens mount on the camera body is not "center" to the housings port opening this may have repercussions on the shot being taken.

In wide angle, with dome ports, parts of the shot will be in focus and other areas may blur.

In macro, especially if people are using snug fitting macro ports, you may find that part of your lens, or lens gear is rubbing on the inside of the port making it hard for the autofocus ( or any other focusing method ) to work,

I have seen that different manufacturers have different diameter port openings, the smaller the port opening the more crucial it is that the lens extends through the center of it.
It may be that IF some adjustment is needed it is minimal and could be rectified by the purchase of a redesigned camera shoe for the housing but that then moves the menu buttons further than diverdon has shown in his diagram , the veiwfinder may be out of alignment or the shutter release, or something else. Believe me, I'm not trying to throw cold water on this thread, I'm really enjoying it! And I would be over the moon if the D300 fits my D200 housing, but I won't be preordering it untill I can try one out with my SEA and SEA kit.

#29 ChrisJ

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 02:01 PM

From the picture, it looks like we can get away with just fiddling with the "fingers" inside the housing?

I am going to study my Hugyfot's "fingers" tonight.
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#30 Scuba_SI

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 01:12 AM

If you go to the Japanese Nexus (Anthis) site you'll see that they have the D70-D80 conversion option listed on their front page. So it has always been an option - maybe just not so easy for US customers.


Cheers
James


Yep, thats the option i saw, i sent the pdf of it to the dealer and in the end they said it wouldn't happen. I think the anthis guys take an age to respond which doesnt help the dealers.

fingers crossed for d300 compatibility though, i just flooded my d200 :'(

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#31 pakman

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 02:15 AM

fingers crossed for d300 compatibility though, i just flooded my d200 :'(


Ouch!!! insured? sure Vietch didn't put a pube on your o-ring in jealousy?

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#32 MikeVeitch

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 04:32 AM

Ouch!!! insured? sure Vietch didn't put a pube on your o-ring in jealousy?



I should edit that and also teach you to spell...

but, its funny
so i won't

:blush:

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#33 ChrisJ

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 06:30 AM

Ouch!!! insured? sure Vietch didn't put a pube on your o-ring in jealousy?


:blush: That is just wrong on so many levels. :blink:
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#34 rodriguezfelix

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 09:39 AM

I think we should expect new features in a brand new D300 housing from every manufacturer (well, maybe L&M not...), but If I was the manufacturer I came with a new housing design, with new features & curves for an existing housing (D200), instead a new back and tray...

It´s more profitable.

Of course I´m devil´s advocate now, but is the way it goes... (I think..)

For sure, I´m getting one of this babes.

#35 james

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 10:39 AM

I think it just depends on the manufacturer's philosophy. The Nexus folks decided to do a conversion kit for the D70->D80 but Subal did a whole new housing. Same goes w/ Sea and Sea.

I think it also has to do w/ the manufacturing process. Subal machines from solid, so they just tweak their CAD model and mill the new housing to precisely fit the camera. Why do the engineering to shoehorn in a different camera when you can make the "perfect" housing right? I have a feeling that's the way some designers look at it.

Remember, housing manufacturers are not all divers and photographers - as odd as that sounds. Many don't dive at all, but they work regularly w/ diving photographers.

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#36 Paul Kay

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 10:56 AM

Funny, I don't hear many complaints about Canon and Nikon not offering upgrades to their cameras - fitting new sensors, electronics, prisms, etc..! Yes, it might be viable to upgrade a housing but given that it is potentially fiddly, and at best a compromise what incentive is there for small manufacturers to do so? (This is a personal comment by the way - and has no connection to ANY specific housing manufacturer). There is, I suspect, a high cost in the measurement of cameras and subsequent design (or re-design in this case) of housings to accurately fit them. I would guess that this cost would be far more difficult to recoup on a modification apart from anything else. I have fitted different cameras in housings not designed for them and it is by no means an easy thing to do and I'd have to have a very good reason to attempt to do so again.
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#37 Scuba_SI

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 11:01 AM

Ouch!!! insured? sure Vietch didn't put a pube on your o-ring in jealousy?



I just ruined a computer in Changi terminal one because of you mr Pak!

I was wondering what all those grey hairs were in my pelican case....

Hopefully i'll get a new camera and a 105vr out of the insurance peeps within the next month. What would Veitch be jealous of anyway? My full head of hair or my youthful good looks? :) :rolleyes:

Back on topic, i'd gladly pay for a new back for my housing. Problem is i've only had the D200 housed for 10 months. Say i wanted to use if for another year and flooded it again, i'd be trolling eBay for a camera body... I bet within a few months they stop stocking D200's in Singapore.

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#38 davehicks

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:40 PM

I am seeing lots of comments from D200 owners looking to move to a D300. Why are you looking to change cameras and housings? The D200 has not been out all that long, and while the D300 has some nice features, I don't know that it will be a vast improvement over the D200. Given the expense of housing upgrades (not to mention an $1800 camera) what do you think will make this a worthwhile move?

Dave (D70 owner who just placed an order for a D300)

#39 loftus

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:59 PM

I am seeing lots of comments from D200 owners looking to move to a D300. Why are you looking to change cameras and housings? The D200 has not been out all that long, and while the D300 has some nice features, I don't know that it will be a vast improvement over the D200. Given the expense of housing upgrades (not to mention an $1800 camera) what do you think will make this a worthwhile move?

Dave (D70 owner who just placed an order for a D300)

I think this is a good point; particularly underwater. We all know the D200 is a great camera. I doubt that the megapixels will make much difference. Similarly some of the other features like more fps etc will be of little value. I think it comes down to two issues; noise at higher ISO's - not that much of an issue, and I think most importantly dynamic range and handling of the specular highlight / highlight interface. If there is a big difference in this area I MIGHT upgrade. If not, I will wait for the D3X and upgrade or not based on the same criteria.
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#40 craig nelson

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 11:49 PM

Hi All

well i'm going to throw a spanner into the works a little here.

WHY must we all rush out to change our cameras for the sake of 2 million pixels !! Its nothing in comparitive image dimensions.

Are you not happy with your D200 ?.

Paul Kay has the answer, I'm so fed up with this race between CANON & NIKON to produce new models every year, its crazy. Tit for Tat production, just incase one of them grabs the market.

lets have just simple Sensor and firmware upgrades for what we have. then when big leaps come along, its then worth changing.

Nothing revolutionary has happened with these new models, the old ones did just a good a job.

I'm keeping with my 200 and happy I am with it.

You can keep on throwing large amounts of cash at this hobby, would a D300 and a new housing make a magical difference in your images..

Lets not forget the art of photography eh !, its still the user that presses the shutter button and has the eye and knowledge to make the image.

anyone think we were not photographers, all the time i hear people saying to me, YEH, i have a 10 mega pixel camera, oh woooooosh, here take a look at these shots from my 2 million Nikky 2200... better or worse than your 8 million super duper camera ? :rolleyes: .. People start to think and talk MEGAB****CKS


Craig............. joining the revolution against this POWER madness !!.. :)

i'm sorry guys and girls about this outburst
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