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Headaches and Vomiting


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#21 scottyb

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 05:05 AM

Simon, thanks for the scolding. Actually IB is not a pain killer, it is an ati-inflamatory. If I were to take a pain killer, it wouldn't be IB since it doesn't work as such. I know that PADI and others emphasize not to use medecations while diving, but for many people, they are the difference between diving and not diving.

#22 Cybergoldfish

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Posted 13 April 2003 - 06:35 AM

why   dont we have this problem on land?   I would breadth just as shallow or shallower right now typing on this computer.  So why dont I get a head ache ?

PARTIAL PRESSURE CO2 INCREASES/DECREASES with depth the same as Nitrogen - This is why you don't get bent running up a stair.

The effects of Co2 retention should be added into the basic training courses, if they are not already as they can lead to blackouts or worse.
Skip breathing for any reason is bad news, many people worry about it if their poorer air consumption makes them look bad in front of others. Diving with a relaxed attitude helps and breathing becomes natural even under the extra pressure on the diaphram muscle.
Co2 retention at cellular level is what causes micro bubbles to form, the scientists failed to recognise this and still do.

#23 cjames

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Posted 16 April 2003 - 06:32 AM

2 more cents...

After a number of years, I've noticed several subtle changes in how the old body reacts to the stess placed on it by diving. Over time, my succeptibility to inner ear disturbance has increased causing vertigo more often, I can't eat and drink what I used to before diving without paying a price, etc. I'm not sure, but I think as we age, our bodies become less efficient at blood/gas transfer (no sophomoric jokes here please) and some of the issues could be related to that. One thing you might try to see if it helps is breathing pure O2 at the SURFACE for some time after a dive. It will help you outgas faster and my point to whether or not you're having O2 transport issues or maybe something else. If this does seem to make a difference, watch skip breathing when shooting. I know this is something we all do, but an alternative is to dive a rebreather. With a rebreather, the noise from normal breathing is much less and won't alert your subjects. If it appears to be sinus related, do you take any kind of decongestant before you dive? You want your sinuses to be as clear and dialated as possible for diving, but you have to watch for them wearing off during the dive and getting a reverse-squeeze (really sucks, I blew a filling out once by a reverse squeeze in a tooth). Your doc should be able to tell you something by an MRI of your head if you suspect this is your problem.

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#24 JackConnick

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Posted 16 April 2003 - 10:25 AM

Bathing pure O2 after a dive means you aren't going diving again that day, at least on most safety proticls for rec diving, due to possible O2 toxicity on the next dives. The apin he's experiencing should havee little to do with CO2 buildup.

Personally, it sounds sinus/inner ear related to me. I'd see a doc and maybe get a refferral to an ENT guy. Calling DAN and discussing it with them over the phone should give some ideas.

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#25 cjames

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 06:04 AM

Jack,

What are you basing that on? Breathing pure O2 is a normal step in tech decompression even while underwater (near surface). Breathing O2 at the surface won't create issues with toxicity, only breathing it a depth. Again at the surface, it will help reduce the partial pressure of nitrogen in the blood stream, well help clear out or counter act the effects of either bad air or a diver having high concentration of CO2 in the blood stream from skip breathing or some other source. That said you're right about the doctor (which I'm not, only an instructor) or a credible diving medicine resource.

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#26 JackConnick

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 09:09 AM

Breathing O2 at the surface won't create issues with toxicity, only breathing it a depth.


Yes it will - it will raise the O2 level of the bloodstream, that's the idea, it just does it faster at depth. If he then goes diving again, he has no idea of what his O2 level is. And I'm talking about normal recreational proticols, not tech diving. Granted, waiting an hour or two after breathing the O2 lowers the blood level by 50% or so, but the person would have no idea of what his levels actually are, therefore what his MOD is. Most tech divers use 50% O2 as they get most of the benefit of pure O2 without the raised levels.

On any rec boat/dive operation I've been on (and I believe DAN also) reccommends that anybody who breathes pure O2 wait a day before diving again, simply because they need to wait for the body to flush itself out.

Again, I think he has a sinus/middle ear problem, IMHO. SEE A DOCTOR.

Remember O2 is a prescription drug, telling someone to breath it isn't legal, they have to ask for it, even if you are a DAN provider.

This is NOT the forum to be giving medical advice like that.

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#27 craig

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 01:38 PM

Yes it will - it will raise the O2 level of the bloodstream, that's the idea, it just does it faster at depth.   If he then goes diving again, he has no idea of what his O2 level is.

...

Granted, waiting an hour or two after breathing the O2 lowers the blood level by 50% or so, but the person would have no idea of what his levels actually are, therefore what his MOD is. Most tech divers use 50% O2 as they get most of the benefit of pure O2 without the raised levels.

On any rec boat/dive operation I've been on (and I believe DAN also) reccommends that anybody who breathes pure O2 wait a day before diving again, simply because they need to wait for the body to flush itself out.

...
Remember O2 is a prescription drug, telling someone to breath it isn't legal, they have to ask for it, even if you are a DAN provider.

This is NOT the forum to be giving medical advice like that.

When he goes diving again, he does know what his PPO2 is, it's .21. Dissolved O2 is consumed in the body, so any elevated partial pressure is eliminated quickly compared to inert gases. That's also why O2 is not considered in decompression calculations.

Oxygen toxicity is not the same as decompression sickness. It's result is convulsions, not bubble-formation, and it exists because O2 is a powerful oxidizer. No surprise there. Dissolved oxygen destroys substances in the body and the body requires recovery time to replace them. There is no need for the body to "flush itself out". Remember, the convulsions are not fatal, but the drowning almost certainly is. Calling O2 a prescription drug isn't accurate, either. It might be regulated in your country, however.

Breathing pure O2 at the surface could increase your risk of long term O2 toxicity, but these exposure rules are very conservative. I believe a policy like the one quoted is pure CYA. Sitting out under these circumstances is probably a good idea but not because of O2 exposure,

A 50% Nitrox mix does not provide "most of the benefit or pure O2" and it does result in "raised levels". Whether it is a good choice for a given technical dive plan is matter for others more qualified than me, but I can assure you that if you are bent at the surface the doctor won't consider a 50% mix to be nearly as good as the real thing.

I think there is too much dangerous advice in this thread. Matters of health and safety are too serious to be discussed here.
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#28 cjames

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 02:38 PM

Agreed, not the proper forum, sorry I brought it up.
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#29 caveman

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Posted 20 April 2003 - 06:59 AM

Waow..........Thanks guys, seems there is alot of knowledge. Well, I hope I have pinned it down, and I think it is a combination of things.

Reasons

1. Bad Air

I just got back from 5 days worth of diving in Burma ( great trip ) and the Main Contributer seems to be bad air. Almost everyone got giddy, headaches etc on the first day, and the operator was filling the tanks from a bank which had bad air in it. I say this, because the intake for the compressor was on the aft of the boat and in a no wind situation, the diesel fumes from the engine would be very think around the stern of the boat.

I noticed that when they filled the tanks when we were moving and had fresh air on the aft, I was perfectly ok

2. Food :- too much or oily food I satyed away from, which was good, but I noticed again on the bad air dives that I felt like vomiting, and actually surfaced early on one dive with another lady who had the same problems ! ( Bad air again )


3. Sinus:- agreed. I have taken anti-histamines at night, and a Surgeon General guy on board the boat we went on who is also a diver strongly recommended Demitapp.


Well, I got all 20 dives in, out of which 3 were not so pleasureable, but I think I have a better take on the causes.

Thanks for all your time and advice ( i.e. to O2 breathing discussion - Being a Nitrox diver, I would be concerned too about Ox-tox. but again thanks for participating )


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