159 replies to this topic

[HDVdiver]

Craig,

I agree that there are different combinations of advantages & disadvantages with the different lighting technologies. I still like the character of Halogen lighting...but the cons outweigh this.

LEDs have their own vulnerabilities...moisture, thermal stress (and resultant color shift/Lumen loss), repair complexity after minor flooding...even the little lenses can drop off after impact.


HID's are more robust than some people think...and the ballasts are hermetically sealed and incorporate circuit protection. In a "test to destruction" I partially flooded a HID50 ( half full case). Didn't get zapped...it switched itself off before I could. Gave it a freshwater rinse in the boat and dried it for 24 hrs...amazingly it (and the bulb) worked the next day, but of course the wiring would've needed replacing. I've seen the same robust recovery of totally flooded halogen systems. I haven't done it with LEDs yet...

Your Lm/Kg/Minutes Burn is a great way of comparing video lights in the real world (...but must also include mounts for battery pods, I guess).

For the record the self-contained HID50 I use is:

4000Lm (or 5000?)/2.1Kg/60 minutes (minimum, continuous burn).

By the way...the HID ballasts/bulbs used by the aircraft industry are exactly the same as can be used for video lights...just sourced from the best manufacturers.


Cheers

[videodan]

First off, I would like to apologize to George and other forum members for my poor choice of phrases when disagreeing with him on certain statements. While the context of what I said has not changed, I should not have so rudely disagreed, as he is an educated professional and a fellow underwater videographer. We should all welcome newer technology, especially if it will give us what we need for a better price. LED, HID, or whatever suites your needs, technological advances are always welcome.

Dan

[craig]

HID's are more robust than some people think...and the ballasts are hermetically sealed and incorporate circuit protection. In a "test to destruction" I partially flooded a HID50 ( half full case). Didn't get zapped...it switched itself off before I could. Gave it a freshwater rinse in the boat and dried it for 24 hrs...amazingly it (and the bulb) worked the next day, but of course the wiring would've needed replacing. I've seen the same robust recovery of totally flooded halogen systems. I haven't done it with LEDs yet...

They are not more robust than I think, though. You can't speak for all ballasts in saying they incorporate proper safety features and, no matter how many safety features you incorporate, the wiring between the ballast and the bulb will always carry tens of thousands of AC volts. That means that the ballast is either integral to the head (limiting the practical power) or the light will have inherent safety concerns. A properly engineered light will be safe but how often do we experience improperly engineered underwater products? All the time! I'm glad your single anecdotal experience worked out well for you, though. It's not a compelling argument.

For the record the self-contained HID50 I use is:

4000Lm (or 5000?)/2.1Kg/60 minutes (minimum, continuous burn).

You realize that 4000 lumens can be provided by a 100W xenophot bulb, right? I don't know if I could get to 2.1Kg including a 100Wh pack, haven't tried, but I could get close. It would also have 100 CRI, cheap bulbs, and variable wattage options, so that combination doesn't sell me on HID. Of course, this is an LED light thread (and halogen needs to be replaced) and I believe LED can compete well at that output and weight. What is the capacity of the battery pack in that setup?

By the way...the HID ballasts/bulbs used by the aircraft industry are exactly the same as can be used for video lights...just sourced from the best manufacturers.

Anything can be used, the question is should it be used. I didn't see enough specs to tell whether those lights are suitable or not. There's a laundry list of specs that must be sorted through. I assume the aircraft industry doesn't care about CRI or hot spots.

[wolfeeldiver]

wolfeeldiver, the Sunray 2000 lightheads screw together with an o-ring seal, as I'm sure your 1000's do also. Extra care is needed, because the o-ring can easily pop out when re-assembling the head.

Dan

Hey there Dan.
The Sunray 1000 light heads are different in design than the 2000s.
The 1000 light heads are solid aluminum, and there is no maintence needed for the user to perform. Power cables are affixed permanently and there is no way to take them apart, except with special tools.. (and no need to).

[NWDiver]

Sent the flooded head to Backscatter and got a new one back yesterday, pretty quick. Will get out this weekend to give them a try. Viz is down in the area so might not really get much of a chance for WA.

[Des]

Is there anyone doing any deals (discounts) on the L&M Sunray 2000 LED video lights yet?
Or do you have any recommendations?

Cheers
Des

[wolfeeldiver]

Is there anyone doing any deals (discounts) on the L&M Sunray 2000 LED video lights yet?
Or do you have any recommendations?

Cheers
Des

I doubt something so new retailers will be giving away too many "deals", however I recently purchased the Sunray 1000s, and B&H PHoto had an attractive price, as well as did marinevisions.com. I bought my 1000s from Marinevisions.com I'd check with both of them. Everyone else I shopped was selling at "retail".

[wolfeeldiver]

Crude as it may be, below is a "test" of my new Sunray 1000s taken in a pool. I think the exposure setting on some shots were under, but I will work on that. The above water baseline image was not taken at the same time of day, so this was not a very controlled test.

It was a very bright and sunny day, and I had difficulties finding shade in order to test the Sunray's fill. Natural light was overpowering the Sunrays at distances over a few feet. But to me, a rank amateur, the colors look good enough for me.

I'll be taking the lights on a real dive this weekend in the dark Puget Sound waters... that will give me a better test of how they work.

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Edited by wolfeeldiver, 11 July 2008 - 08:36 AM.

[Steve Douglas]

Just returned from Alaska where I used the Sunray 2000s exclusively. I am greatly impressed with them. The water up there was a cold 41 degrees which we know reduces battery time, we had poor vis at 5-10ft with lots of particulate in the water. Using the low or med power settings reduced the particulate showing up and were best for any close up or macro work. The high power setting will get a good workout in the Cocos in a couple of weeks. With the HIDs, I was very used to changing pod batteries after each dive. With the 2000, I could leave the battery in after a dive, leave it overnight on the changing table and use them just fine for the next dive the next day. I never saw the low battery warning. There were no hotspots and the spread was very good.
Steve B)

[BillyC]

Sunray 2000 from Marine Visions: Joe is the man over there!! He set my new rig with Gates EX1, External Monitor, & the Sunrays.

Wow, it is a beautiful set up and worked phenominal on its first dive!!!!!!! Thanks Joe!

Sunrays performed exceptional. I was shooting my kid swimming @ his Grandma s pool @ night. The lights lit up the pool like day. I will post footage soon.

[wolfeeldiver]

I took my Sunray 1000s out this weekend in the green Puget Sound waters this weekend, actually in the San Juans for those that know area. Due to warm weather, plankton bloom and runoff, water vis was 5-10 at the most, 49 degree, with lots of particles in the water too. Overall, I was very impressed with the sunrays. I had to shoot really close to the subjects due to the dirty water and up close FULL power was too much for some of the yellow subjects. I often lowered the output to Half power, and even sometimes Quarter power in order to better blend the light to the ambient surface (in upward shots). Having the abilty to simply push the button, and knock down the intensity is a great feature of the Sunrays. The only trouble experienced was with the set screw in my GAS mounting adapter (used to mount the pods to my Gates HC7 housing) was not tight enough and the first dive one pod was sliding loose.. But I wont make that mistake again. Light and Motion should put (2) set screw per pods in the GAS for redundancy. As for color.... looks great. I shot both using the OUTDOOR setting as well as WB to a white slate exposed by the lights. Perhaps I'll post a photo or two here later. I left the lights running mostly during the dives, 3 short dives, total time about 90 minutes and used the same batteries.

FYI, the LMI Sunray1000s, GAS Adapter on a Gates HC7/9 Housing is a little heavy, a couple pounds negative. I custom made some ABS floats and attached them under the housing handles to offset this, and now the housing is fine. Just a little heft.

[biminitwist]

Wolfeeldiver-
" ABS floats and attached them under the housing handles to offset this, and now the housing is fine. Just a little heft." Could you attach a photo of your rig with these. My Bluefin is alittle heavier with it's after market pods and I was looking at options to bring it closer to neutral, possibly the ULCS double buoyancy arms, except I like my flexible arms. I'm unsure where I could attach extra floatation since the top has the external monitor. There isn't much room on the handles and Drew says don't add it underneath the unit. Thanks. John

[Drew]

Errr Drew doesn't say so... physics does.
Look at an air bubble in a closed bottle. It always wants to be above the more dense water.
Try to use any BC device and it will do the same. If you use a minimal amount on a very heavy housing/light combo, and the majority of weight still has a low cg, then it shouldn't be a problem.

[biminitwist]

I stand corrected. I should have said Drew's recommendation brought this to my attention. I wanted to give due credit of course. I suppose after so many posts I occasionally mistake Drew for a law of nature. Back on topic, I would like to see some pics of buoyancy set ups, especially if anyone has something for a Bluefin housing. I will try a small amount of foam between the pods. Thanks Drew. John

Edited by biminitwist, 15 July 2008 - 06:41 AM.

[wolfeeldiver]

I'm sorry .. I dont have a photo of my rig with my bouyancy chambers attached. I'll dig the stuff out, and take a photo in a day or so and post it here.

Without the floats, my setup is negative, but not unmanagble, just more than I care for. With my floats, still negative, but now "just right for me" 1/4 or 1/2 lb negative I'd guess.

Below is a photo of my rig. Just imagine a short tube of black ABS 1-1/2" pipe with end caps, One chamber mounted under each handle, running parallel to each battery pod. Each tube is about 6" long.

This configurationl sits upright when placed on the bottom or when released. It does not want to flip up nor invert. I do not have to fight it. All the heavy negative stuff (GAS adapter and the battery pods) are all located "in between" and in the same plane as the new bouyancy chambers and are all firmly mounted to the Housings mounting base.

Remember, my goal was to offset the negative bouyancy caused by the addition of the the added Sunray battery pods and GAS mounting adapter. In my case mounting my float chambers just next to the battery pods and mounting hardware works well. (FYI, If LMI had made the GAS mounting adapter out of Delrin instead of Aluminum, I may not have needed these floats.)

I suggest you visit the hardware store, whip out a similiar setup, and do a water test it to determine if it will help your setup or not.

I'll update the photo soon.

Also, I'm not sure if foam will work. I'd assume that it needs to be closed cell in order to not fill with water and keep its bouyancy.. and if such.. foam would compress under pressure.. like a wet suit... thus you'd lose its benefits. I tend to think you need a rigid body type of float.

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Edited by wolfeeldiver, 15 July 2008 - 08:29 AM.

[biminitwist]

Thanks. Judging from your description of the buoyancy tubes they are also toward the underside of your rig paralleling the batteries. I can try something similar except there isn't room with the handles on mine for that setup. I could have a single tube down the center between the battery pods. Since that places it below the housing I was looking at other options. It is certainly cheap enough to try out and see if it works. Like yours, my housing/pods isn't unbearably heavy but I've gotten use to a more neutral housing weight. Where would you get black ABS pipe and end caps? Your housing looks great with those lights! Thanks again. John

[wolfeeldiver]

Where would you get black ABS pipe and end caps? Your housing looks great with those lights! Thanks again. John

My apologies for not having a photo of the float pods attached,.. all my stuff is packed away but I'll try to post a photo soon.
Yes, my float pods are parallel to battery pods, one each on the "outside" just about under each handle. In my situation the Sunray batteries, and the floats are all under the housing in the same plane.
I purchased a 4 foot lenght of 1-1/2" diameter black ABS pipe from a local hardware store that sold plumbing supplies. You could go larger or smaller in diameter. They also had the end caps, and a can of ABS glue. I made floats 4" and 6-7" lengths and experimented with different floats in a pool to determine what worked. I attached mine to the handles using a "U" shaped bent length all-thread stainless rod, with nuts attaching to alum mouting plates I made. I need to post a photo...
I opted to mount to the bottom, as these now provide "feet" when resting the housing on a boat deck or the bottom. No longer is the Sunray pods taking the burden of being abused. Also this freed up the top of my housing's dovetail slot. The Gates housing has a dovetail slot where I can mount a carrying handle, or a WB slate, or antoher float if desired or anything. Im actually considering mouting my dive computer up there.. where its easy to see....

Edited by wolfeeldiver, 16 July 2008 - 08:01 AM.

[wolfeeldiver]

Heres samples of my first use of a Sunray 1000s in the dark, green, silty 6'-12' vis Puget Sound waters.
The anemone was with the WB set to OUTDOOR. The crude color chart and all others with WB set to a white slate. These are simple frame grabs, with no changes made. Some were shot at Full, some Half, some Quarter power. I did not reset WB when changing power.
Since visibility was so poor on these dives, I had to keep the subject just a few feet away so I did not get a chance to shoot anthing further away.

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Edited by wolfeeldiver, 16 July 2008 - 08:26 AM.

[jonny shaw]

My word the visibility looks stunning

[wolfeeldiver]

My word the visibility looks stunning

Thanks for the kind words.... I'm fortunate to have some prior experience with dirty water still photography so for this first video attempt that happened to be in dirty water I whipped out my "bag of tricks":
1.) I shot very very close to the subject with a wide angle port. These are taken with the Fathom WP25. Most subjects are less than 2 feet away.
2.) Sunray Light arms were extended a bit longer than was factory supplied I added a few more lock-line links. They were pointed at very wide angles from the sides and as much as possible to eliminate backscatter. I attempted to illuminate the subject only and none of the water between the subject and lens. I'm tinkering with the idea of making some "french flags" or "barndoors" type of devices for my light heads so that I can fine tune the light angles for this dirty water purpose.

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Edited by wolfeeldiver, 17 July 2008 - 01:11 PM.