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Japanese whalers take custody of Sea Shepherd crew


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#21 segal3

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 11:47 PM

Looks like the mainstream media is picking this up in full force - it's on the front page of the US and International CNN.com pages!

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#22 pakman

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 11:54 PM

well you have to give SS credit for accomplishing a couple things with the recent encounter...

1) more publicity to the anti-whaling cause

2) delayed, albeit temporarily, the ongoing whale hunt by the Japanese

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#23 Drew

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 12:41 AM

Maybe that was the point of this stunt? Publicity stunts and delay tactics. There are 5 other boats out there whaling. Watson's responses are also scripted. Now this is PR at its best.

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#24 wagsy

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 01:10 AM

Tons and tons of Whale meat in the freezers in Japan and it costing them millions to kill more for Research :)
Running it all at huge losses to. It's all just bizarre that they want to keep whaling when most of their own people don't even eat the stuff and it's toxic.

The whole world really knows what they are up to down there now, research my arse...they are whaling period and they certainly make things worse for themselves by keeping on saying it's research.

What the Sea Shepard guys are doing may not be 100% correct but they certainly getting results and they way they are going it will put so much pressure on Japan that they will have to give it up.

Go SS... :)
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#25 Craig Ruaux

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 12:44 PM

Sydney Morning Herald is reporting that the two SS members have been handed to Australian Customs officials.

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Now it will be interesting to see where they go next. IE back onto the Steve Irwin or back to Australia on the Oceanic Viking.
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#26 Drew

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 01:35 PM

I think throwing acid at people is a deplorable act. If anyone thinks that these sort of tactics will help in the cause, they are sadly mistaken. If anything it will reinforce the Japanese position who can easily spin it as anti-japanese and fuel a nationalistic movement. Just as the japanese are losing the international PR game, the anti-whaling movement hasn't figured out the japanese domestic PR game.

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#27 echeng

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 01:51 PM

Perhaps I'm wrong, but isn't butyric acid basically a stink bomb? Whenever I've spoke with them, that's what they say it is being used for. How dangerous is it?

Isn't it similar to calling lemon juice an acid?

The glass bottle -- that could be dangerous if it hits someone on the head.
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#28 Drew

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 02:03 PM

Eric
This is from the CDC:
CDC Butyric Acid

Stink bombs are little vials (25ml) that break on impact. 1 liter of the acid in a glass bottle is a different story. The possibilities of permanent damage is low but it does exist. I doubt anyone would like to get that stuff in their eyes or exposed skin.
The NFPA rating for Butyric Acid is Blue 2 and Red 2. It's not exactly lemon juice.
Not that the Japanese are any smarter. Water cannons in 0C seas. Even with exposure suits, knocking someone into the sea is dangerous. This standoff is dangerous and I can only take the Green Peace approach to this. Block them but don't endanger lives.

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#29 Craig Ruaux

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 02:08 PM

Butyric acid doesn't actually smell all that bad. If they wanted to cause a smell they should have thrown methylmercaptan... that would have attracted lots of albatrosses to the ship as well.

Butyric acid is extremely soluble, even in cold water, it would have washed away in the seawater almost instantly. SS needs to pay more attention to MSDS's if they actually want to do harm. If they were grandstanding with the acid (my opinion), they should have used something that would stick.
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#30 Drew

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 02:23 PM

Ok craig...next time we meet I'll throw some Butyric in your eye (or facial skin even) and let you wash it out after 2 minutes. Then you can tell me how innocuous it was. :) Oh wait, I'll have to do it from about 20m with a glass bottle. You can try to duck. :)

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#31 shawnh

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 02:59 PM

I think that saddest part of this thread is this. Some very committed folks are risking their lives to do something about the whaling in Antarctica. They make little or no money. If they make a dent, everyone on this forum benefits because our wonderful cetaceans live another year for us to enjoy. The job is extremely hard. Only by threat are they able to interfere with the whaling operations and save whales.

It seems the rest of the world is doling little else but watch and say "what a shame the Japanese are killing more and more of these whales. Boy I wish they would just stop". I have news for the rest of us....they WON'T just stop. Only massive pressure can cause this to happen. For that to happen you need awareness. Awareness drives folks to seek understanding. Things we understand we may decide to care about. Only things we care about do we protect. Paul Watson is making sure the world is aware.

We sit here in our comfortable homes and criticize the nuances of their methods. What about the fact that they are just about the only ones doing anything about this illegal activity. Have we lost touch with the reality of what is happening to last of our dwindling and supposedly "protected" whale species? The sting for a substance akin to a stink bomb will pass. The whalers are covered from head to foot down there. There is very little chance this substance would get in their eyes. If you wanted to harm a whaler, there are more effective and direct methods you could use. You can be sure their are far greater hazards facing the Japanese fishermen each and every day on the boat. A butyric acid is annoying but little else. But...a harpoon in head of a Fin Whale is permanent...and that is what these Japanese whalers have promised to deliver to 950 whales this year. I would love to hear more about this side of the issue.

This needs to end:
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#32 vincentkneefel

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 03:30 PM

Well spoken Shawn, nothing to add (smiley clapping hands)

DISGUSTING hamburger.

Edited by vincentkneefel, 18 January 2008 - 02:10 PM.

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#33 shawnh

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 03:41 PM

Vincent,
Thanks for the support. Just to be clear however, I am not attacking the Japanese in general. I have a number of close friends who are Japanese. Interestingly enough, they share my disgust with the whaling issue. Like me, they are incredibly frustrated with their governments stubborn persistence to advocate whaling, a practice that is supported by only a minority of the Japanese public. Every nation seems to wage its own war on delicate marine resources. The government of Japan just seems to be a serious offender in this category.
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#34 vincentkneefel

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 03:50 PM

Vincent,
Thanks for the support. Just to be clear however, I am not attacking the Japanese in general. I have a number of close friends who are Japanese. Interestingly enough, they share my disgust with the whaling issue. Like me, they are incredibly frustrated with their governments stubborn persistence to advocate whaling, a practice that is supported by only a minority of the Japanese public. Every nation seems to wage its own war on delicate marine resources. The government of Japan just seems to be a serious offender in this category.
Shawn



Sorry, I should have been a bit more clear. I did not mean to offend the whole Japanese population, just the ones that hunt and eat whales.
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#35 Drew

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 03:50 PM

Shawn, the Green Peace Ship Esperanza is also out in the Antarctic and they are also risking their lives by putting themselves in the line of fire. They have not resorted to hurting anyone nor use tactics that could result in serious consequences for any others but themselves. You can follow their voyages via Jonah Fisher, the BBC correspondent who is on the Esperanza.
I know you know people on board the Steve Irwin right now. They chose to go out there to force the Japanese whaling ships to stop. Lobbing acid and acting as representatives of law (when they are not) is not only counterproductive but also hurtful to the entire cause, while risking lives (including their own). You don't break the law to go after people you say are breaking the law when they actually have permits to hunt, issued by the same people who marked the sanctuary. So in effect you are saying the sanctuary is legal because it serves my purpose but the japanese can't hunt here even if it is authorized by the IWC because it doesn't fit my rules??
Then you have the issue of the illegal boarding of a sovereign vessel to 'deliver' a letter. Since when did SS become part of the Australian law enforcement? What right did they have to enforce the australian ruling? They boarded purposely to disrupt the whaling and it worked. Calling the whalers kidnappers and terrorists is just plain rhetoric and nonsense. It's a well planned stunt and the whalers fell for it. For that I say bravo.
If you are saying it's ok to act illegally (eg: throwing glass bottles of acid(assault), boarding ships (trepass) etc) to counter SS pronounced illegal activity, which is actually sanctioned by the IWC which also marked the sanctuary. Perhaps you'd like go back to 1986 when all of the major whaling countries VOLUNTARILY held the moratorium on whaling. Even Star Trek made a statement about whaling. Who was the first to break that moratorium? Not the Japanese but the Norwegians, who have hunted under 'objection' for years.
2 crewmen were injured by the 'harmless' stink bombs. You want to test how harmless it is, throw some on someone you know. See how they react before you blindly believe the press junket.
I am against whaling as much as anyone, and I support the efforts of Green Peace and other organizations. I even support the Sea Shepherds since 88, especially their work in the Galapagos. However harming other people for the sake of the cause is beyond my comprehension. The minke whale is not endangered in the Southern ocean. I'm sure what numbers amounts to a healthy population is definitely open for debate. We also must accept that in this world, EVERYTHING is a resource, including whales and even people. And we are at the top of the food chain.

I did not mean to offend the whole Japanese population, just the ones that hunt and eat whales.

Vincent
You also have to find a few Norwegians, Indonesians, Icelanders, St Vincent and even Americans (eg: Makah tribe) disgusting, since they also hunt and eat whale.
Anyone who eats meat is disgusting to those who chose to be vegetarian or vegan. Just because it's disgusting to you does not mean it must be disgusting to the rest of the world. Not all cultures anthropomorphize intellect in animals they consume and in all likelihood they probably do both.

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#36 vincentkneefel

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 04:17 PM

Vincent
You also have to find a few Norwegians, Indonesians, Icelanders, St Vincent and even Americans (eg: Makah tribe) disgusting, since they also hunt and eat whale.
Anyone who eats meat is disgusting to those who chose to be vegetarian or vegan. Just because it's disgusting to you does not mean it must be disgusting to the rest of the world. Not all cultures anthropomorphize intellect in animals they consume and in all likelihood they probably do both.


Actually, I am DISGUSTED by a very large percentage of these people.

You say EVERYTHING is a resource: even people are. So why don't we start eating other people? We have a VERY healthy population and we will eventually become endangered because we are too many... Cannibalism is not done, because it is forbidden by international law: this is based upon ethics that we have established through centuries of civilization. The same should be the case for hunting whales, since we know they are highly intelligent mammals. There is universal consensus on this point (only a very very small percentage of the world population does not agree), ever since commercial whaling was banned.

Also please consider the fact that Japanese do not need this resource at all, they only do it because they claim it is a cultural tradition. Based on this fact alone, there is no need at all for these majestic mammals to suffer.

I also like to add: since whales have no way to protect themselves, why have people not the right to protect them with force? They are highly intelligent mammals, who do no harm to us. If Japanese went out in China to hunt for Chinese (what they have actually done), there will be a war. I think Sea Shepherd is very careful in their actions, so far they have not actually harmed or killed anyone.

Edited by vincentkneefel, 17 January 2008 - 04:40 PM.

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#37 echeng

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 05:27 PM

Well spoken Shawn, nothing to add (smiley clapping hands)

DISGUSTING Japs

Nice. I love racism. The word "Jap" is derogatory, and I'd prefer to not see it again on these forums.
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#38 zippsy

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 05:36 PM

For the most part, I'm with Drew on this. I am definitely anti-whaling but I am also pro-law & order. Vigilantes may possibly have their heart in the right place but I don't think they are all that good for the cause in the long run. There are many influential people in the world who don't want to be associated with causes that the extremists are already making themselves a name on because of fear that they will taken for the extremist too. There are better ways to deal with this.

#39 pakman

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 05:38 PM

thank you Eric... I was just about to say the same.

I can't find the article from last nite on the return of the two SS guys to the Australian boat, but it mentioned that they "appeared" to be prepared for a long stay on the Japanese boat. Article said they had rucksacks with a change of clothes and toiletries... And SS said all they wanted to do was hand over that letter. Haha... Well done. I almost suspect they got a bunch of unemployed Hollywood script writers working for them and writing an environmental "Wag the Dog" storyline :)...

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#40 vincentkneefel

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 05:50 PM

Nice. I love racism. The word "Jap" is derogatory, and I'd prefer to not see it again on these forums.


I am very sorry, I did not mean to be offensive in that sort of manor at all. My grandfather was in one of the Japanese concentration camps in Indonesia, so he used the word a lot. In the Netherlands it is not used used for derogatory purposes, but more in a ludicrous manor.

Anyway, I will be more careful in picking my words next time.

Edited by vincentkneefel, 17 January 2008 - 05:55 PM.

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