25 replies to this topic

[MikeO]

http://www.foxbusine...a_504716_8.html

Passengers who have already booked for during or after the phase-out will be "re-accommodated where possible". I'm booked to take the EWR-SIN flight leaving on 5/10 and returning 6/6 -- I'm guessing I probably should give a call in the morning . . .

Mike

Edited by MikeO, 09 March 2008 - 11:10 AM.

[Drew]

I think it's a smart move business wise... Everytime I take the non stop flight between LAX-SIN, economy isn't full but business is. I have to say that the C class seats are not as comfortable as the spacebed ones on this flight, so it's a good thing. I guess now I have to break the piggy bank to fly that route as often as I do.
I do dread going through Taipei or Narita airport again.
What I don't understand is how they are going to compensate for the additional surcharge they charged for premium economy. I mean, the premium economy seats are a few hundred dollars more than the normal economy seats.

[MikeO]

I think it's a smart move business wise... Everytime I take the non stop flight between LAX-SIN, economy isn't full but business is. I have to say that the C class seats are not as comfortable as the spacebed ones on this flight, so it's a good thing. I guess now I have to break the piggy bank to fly that route as often as I do.
I do dread going through Taipei or Narita airport again.
What I don't understand is how they are going to compensate for the additional surcharge they charged for premium economy. I mean, the premium economy seats are a few hundred dollars more than the normal economy seats.

For me, it isn't a question of breaking the bank or not. I simply cannot afford business class. Sucks being one of the little people! Having never experienced a "space bed", in this solar system or any other, I can only say that the economy seats on this flight are far and away better than those on the regular economy flights. The math is easy. They charge up to four times for business class what they do for executive economy. The switch in the back of the plane will be from 2-3-2 "premium economy" to to 1-2-1 business class. Even if you don't assume that only 80% of the economy seats are full they make more money. Not to mention less snacks, perhaps fewer crew, less fuel, etc . . .

Bottom line -- smart business decision or not, this is yet another clear sign that ALL airlines are chasing the "business" passenger and the rest of us, who don't have a company to foot the bill, suffer the consequences.

Edited by MikeO, 09 March 2008 - 11:44 AM.

[Drew]

Mike,
Unfortunately, that is the way business works. As an alternative, there's EVA Air that also has a deluxe economy seat which is similar to the SQ seats and cheaper too. You obviously don't have the same level of service but Eva has decent connections to most of SEA. It's almost as good.
Do you get stiffed on the premium economy fare since they are downgrading you to plain economy?

[MikeO]

Mike,
Unfortunately, that is the way business works. As an alternative, there's EVA Air that also has a deluxe economy seat which is similar to the SQ seats and cheaper too. You obviously don't have the same level of service but Eva has decent connections to most of SEA. It's almost as good.
Do you get stiffed on the premium economy fare since they are downgrading you to plain economy?

I haven't had a chance to figure out yet what "re-accommodated" means, or if it will apply to my flights. I will probably call tomorrow and see if they plan to change my flights around. Could be a problem as I have connections to and from Indonesia that need to line up. According to the article, the upgrade will be "phased" to with the EWR-bound planes being fully converted by the end of June and the LAX ones being done by the end of September. One would assume that they would take one of the five planes out of service at a time and fully convert each all at once but that may not be the case -- might be easier to start moving the line farther back a bit at a time as they phase in more business bookings and phase out economy ones. I am probably screwed in that I booked this one with miles and will, no doubt, be at the bottom of the list should it come to any financial accommodation . . .

Mike

[Drew]

Actually I just checked and the LAX-SIN flights are cancelled from mid-May to end June. I was suppose to fly to PI via SIN. There goes that. So I guess they are continuing the EWR flights for the business set. If you booked by miles, then it's the same miles for direct vs 1 stop no? If you paid then it's a whole other story.

[MikeO]

Odd, I can go on the SQ website right now and book LAX-SIN during that time frame on Executive Economy . . .

[Drew]

Hmmm... oh I tried on a tuesday. That's why.... Opps.

[zippsy]

Well I am pissed. I saw this in the Singapore papers and raised as much a fuss as I can but I know I am fencing with windmills. I only flew on SIA because of these flights. I go to the east coast twice a year so I took the flight to Newark and drove south. They say now that unless I want to upgrade to business class, I have to fly through Frankfurt. When I said I'd rather fly through Tokyo and Detroit to my home, they said they didn't fly that route. I congratulated them on being so quick.

I actually don't like SIA but this flight was great. Their option for me is to spend S$3,161 to fly to JFK and drive to Baltimore or I could take NW (or Continental or United) and spend S$2,800 and arrive without the drive. With these options, I can save money, have bigger seats, fewer movie options, trade cute but blur and snobby flight attendants for older, surly but safe ones as well as saving myself the drive and cost of renting at NY rates. hmmmmmm...... tough choice? Nah.

BTW, at current rates, a full non-stop return flight to EWR gives them S$1,100,000 in the all business class configuration. In the mixed configuration, the capacity revenue is S$984,800. Almost every time I flew the flight, it was full in both classes but quite a number of people used frequent flyer miles to upgrade to business class. I think they will have trouble filling the new plane. But they do have one clear business advantage in doing this. They didn't say but the prices are going up S$1,000 for the C class seats. It's a little hard to raise economy seat prices like that without losing customers.

They lost me though. I also used them around the region because of the Kris Flyer program but if I'm not flying them to the US, I will drop that too.

[zippsy]

I feel much better about SQ after getting a reply from them about the subject:

10 March 2008

Dear Mr. S.....

A good day to you from Singapore Airlines and we hope our email finds you well.

We have received your email of 5 March and am [sic] sorry to learn of your disappointment with the conversion of our A340-500 ultra-long range aircraft into an all-Business Class configuration, for daily flights between New York and Singapore.

The decision to convert our current 2-class seat arrangement with 100 of our Airline’s new award-winning Business Class seats is in response to market demand. There is a demand for our non-stop flights from our Business Class customers and this change will help us cater to this market need.

Thank you for allowing us this opportunity to correspond with you and to explain the matter.

Yours sincerely,

Ms. S......
Manager Customer Services

See how sweet they can be while they tell economy class passengers to piss off?  I guess I'll go back to using lesser airlines.

[MikeO]

Well, I just gfot off the phone with SQ. I am confirmed on my flights with seat assignments. Looks like I am not affected by this for my current booking.

Ijust looked at the plane layout and it is going to be quite a change. The current Raffles class cabin is 2-2-2. New one will be 1-2-1, according to the articles. Going from 64 Raffles and 117 EE to 100 New Business Class. Should be a sweet ride for those who can foot the bill . . .

Mike

[Drew]

Well they sent me a chinese new year gift and I get a birthday card LOL
It is a pity as I use that route often. I guess I'll be burning my miles more often now. There are cheaper airlines like Eva with a deluxe seat. I did that for Bali once. I just dislike Taipei Airport.

[ReefRoamer]

These routes are heavily traveled by time-sensitive business people and their companies pick up the tab for Business Class on such long flights. Until the aircraft conversations to all-Business Class are completed later this year, you can still get economy and Executive Economy seats by traveling on days when the unconverted aircraft are in use on these routes. My understanding is that the switch to all Business Class seating is for only the non-stop flights between EWR & LAX and Singapore. In other words, there will still be regular multi-cabin service on other routings between the US and Singapore that involve at least one stopover. My group had to reschedule our LAX-SIN flights in September to a day later in order to keep the EE service.

[MikeO]

My understanding is that the switch to all Business Class seating is for only the non-stop flights between EWR & LAX and Singapore. In other words, there will still be regular multi-cabin service on other routings between the US and Singapore that involve at least one stopover.

True, but the level of comfort in "regular" economy on those flights and the EE ones is not nearly the same. Smaller seats, far less leg room, getting tossed off the plane in wonderful airports like Frankfurt and Taipei, etc. The first time I flew from the U.S. East Coast to Singapore, I went on the regular flight from JFK through Frankfurt. Not real happy about the possibility of having to do that again. Next time I'm more likely to fly to the West Coast first and go from there.

Edited by MikeO, 16 March 2008 - 04:50 PM.

[zippsy]

It's simple for me, I've changed airlines.  I can get three United flights that take me right to where I am going.  I can upgrade to their executive economy class too and compared to the new SQ Frankfurt flights, I'll still spend S$500 less, arrive 5 hours earlier without the drive from Newark and have seats with 4 inches more leg room.  In exchange, I have two lay-overs instead of one, I won't get a personal on-demand TV and I'll get surly flight attendants rather than snobbish stupid ones.

I'd rather have the non-stop executive class flight but SQ's next best option is far down my list.

I just feel bad for the poor people that already bought tickets on EE non-stop flights and were recently sent an e-mail saying, "Thanks for flying with the best airline in the world.  Oh, by the way, we have downgraded you to a seat on regular economy class and the flight has a stop-over in Frankfurt.  I hope you don't mind but we'll make more money by changing your previously paid for flight to all-business class.  Also, we're not giving you any sort of a refund.  Have a good day, sucker."

[MikeO]

It's simple for me, I've changed airlines. I can get three United flights that take me right to where I am going. I can upgrade to their executive economy class too

Just out of curiosity, how do you guarantee that you can get the "Economy Plus" seats on United -- are you an "Elite" flyer, do you pay the $350, or do you just check in fast enough?

Thanks,

Mike

[jcclink]

"re-accommodated where possible" Just found out what this means. I have been trying to book LAX/SIN/DPS in Sep with return a few weeks later. Exec Economy was available outbound but I was Waitlisted on return flight. I finally discovered after several phone calls to the Indian Reservation desk (they didn't know about the plane conversions yet) & LA Sales office that Exec Econ was no longer available after end of Sep. So I was "re-accommodated" - booked on a 777 1-stopper, AT FULL ECONOMY FARE, which was only about $1000 more than what my original on-line booking was supposed to be. The B flexi fare was waitlisted. LA Sales said they would haved to messege Singapore (the city) to try to get me the cheaper fare. I finally gave up. Now I'm flying Eva Elite Class with 2-3 hrs less fly time LAX/TPE/DPS & $400 cheaper RT ticket. Hope its a decent flight.

Edited by jcclink, 22 March 2008 - 06:16 PM.

[masguy]

My wife and I were planning our next Pacific/Indian Ocean dive trip and were shocked to learn that changes have been made at Singapore Air. SA used to be the best way to fly to the Pacific; big comfy seats, food service, and just plain good service. But now apparently Singapore did away with its coach plus service (comparable to other carriers' business class).

Is this just mindless hysteria on our part, or has there really been a change?

So, has anyone here flown coach on Singapore in the last month, on the LA or DC to Singapore route? Any changes? If so, what is the new experience like?

Is there any other airline that still has the old Singapore Air service and comfort at the old SA price?

Thanks

[Michael]

I flew out in July from LAX to Singapore on Singapore Air. Their airbus still had the coach plus (like business class, super) but on the ride back one month later they had a cattle car (truly cattle car) 777 loaded to the gills with very uncomfortable seats. Good luck!
Michael
mpostock.com

[ornate_wrasse]

So, has anyone here flown coach on Singapore in the last month, on the LA or DC to Singapore route? Any changes? If so, what is the new experience like?

I'll be flying coach on Singapore Airlines next Thursday (9/25) from San Francisco to Singapore. I'll try to post about the experience I have.

Ellen