Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Unpleasant attitude from dive shop owner


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 ozanners

ozanners

    Clownfish

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 27 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Diving, diving, diving... <br /><br />and...<br /><br />Making movies taking pictures and producing music... and diving...

Posted 30 March 2008 - 08:31 AM

I have just had a strange conversation with the owner of the dive shop I make videos for in Thailand...

I started out with this company in october 2007, basically blagging myself a job making souvenir videos for their liveaboard. The deal was I would make the movies and sell them and pay a commission to the shop for my space on the boat and produce a promo video for the shop at the end. I was given a work permit and as this was my first job like this and as I was grateful for the opportunity I decided to go along with the 30% commision the shop owner was asking for. In time I met other videographers working in the same area and found that they were paying a more reasonable 20% for their spot on the boat(although with out the chance of a work permit). Even so rather than rock the (liveaboard) boat I decided to leave things as they were and get on with learning and making nice movies for the customers, building up my portfolio and simply enjoying the endless diving.

Now we are nearing the end of the season and I decided to take a trip off to consolidate my hours of footage into my own 'best of' and get on with the promotional DVD for the shop. I spoke with the owner to get an idea of what he wants and he says what he wants is a DVD of just my best stuff which he can sell. Fine by me. I then asked what kind of deal he proposed in exchange. He then told me out of the blue that there would be no deal for me, he wants my best of to sell for himself. I said that I wasn't prepared to give him this much without something in return. His reply to this was "we aren't in the uk you know, with all that copyright bullsh*t". :lol: I told him as we agreed at the beginning I am prepared to make you a promo video for the shop for you to play as advertising but not to sell if you don't want to give me a share of some sort. He then told me that I was only on the boat as a novelty for his customers and that he could make more money by selling my spot to a full paying customer. ;) Nice huh?

Earlier on I have seen him giving away one of my DVDs to a repeat customer copied from the DVDs of each trip I had given him to play in the shop. Fair enough the guy is a repeat customer of his but he is was also a repeat potential customer of mine (who didn't buy any of my movies strangely enough). I wanted to bring this up but before I got around to it the above happened.

Personally I feel patronised, offended and partly threatened by this, and really don't feel like giving him a thing on top of the hundreds of pounds he has taken from my sales. I don't begrudge him that money, business is business, but I don't want to be taken advantage of any further.

I don't think I want to return to Thailand for another season not due to this, but after being here for a couple of years I feel it's time to move on, so... I could happily leave with things the way they are and with a bag full of as many of the dvds I left in the shop as I can find hidden at the bottom of my backpack :glare:, but I don't want to be the guy who leaves a job unfinished and with negative feeling on anyones part.

I've just read all this back and I apologise now for the gosippy sounding rant it may be percieved as but this has wound me up slightly and I needed to get it off my chest.

Any ideas or opinions on this would be gratefully recieved.

Thanks

#2 MikeVeitch

MikeVeitch

    1.7kbps Manta Boy

  • Senior Moderator
  • 6186 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In Bali, Indonesia but from Vancouver, BC
  • Interests:Teaching Underwater Photography

Posted 30 March 2008 - 05:22 PM

wow, thats an interesting one. Not sure what to advise on this one. Personally i don't think i would give him something like what he is asking. A commission deal is the way to go, it is he who is burning the bridges, not you.

BTW, 30% to him with free room and board is actually pretty damn good! :lol:

Join us for an Underwater Photography Workshop in Ambon March 2015
Blog and Photo Archive/Portfolio Site www.mikeveitchblog.com
Learn underwater photography in Indonesia or Join me on a trip www.underwatertribe.com


#3 ozanners

ozanners

    Clownfish

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 27 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Diving, diving, diving... <br /><br />and...<br /><br />Making movies taking pictures and producing music... and diving...

Posted 30 March 2008 - 08:21 PM

BTW, 30% to him with free room and board is actually pretty damn good! :lol:


Thats kind of how I felt and as I said I was happy to go along with it to get some experience but after hearing about the deal others are getting and seeing his recent attitude...

#4 Timmoranuk

Timmoranuk

    Great White

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1169 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near NDAC, South Wales
  • Interests:Technical diving; open circuit and rebreather, U/W photography, topside photography, travel, aviation and sailing.

Posted 31 March 2008 - 02:43 AM

Its probably not what you want to hear but it seems like you have been enroled in 'life's school of hard knocks'...

I guess the best you can take away from this is to make sure that you cover all the bases in the future and confirm verbal agreements with a letter of understanding.

Right now maybe sit tight, smile a lot, eat, sleep and dive at your employer's expense and in the meantime quietly see if you can get another position. When you do leave, do it with good grace and on good terms.

Just my 2 cents... Take care.
· Canon 5D3, 7D & Nauticam housings. Sigma 15mm, Canon 16-35mm, Tokina 10-17mm, Sigma 8-16mm, Canon 10-22mm, Sigma 17-70mm, Sigma 70-200mm, Sigma 120-300mm, Canon 60mm & 100mm
· INON Z-240s & Sea & Sea YS-250 Pros
· SmallHD DP4 monitor & NA-DP4. Fisheye Aquavolt 3500s & 7000s
· Zen DP-100, DP-200 & DP-230

#5 MikeVeitch

MikeVeitch

    1.7kbps Manta Boy

  • Senior Moderator
  • 6186 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In Bali, Indonesia but from Vancouver, BC
  • Interests:Teaching Underwater Photography

Posted 31 March 2008 - 03:47 AM

When you do leave, do it with good grace and on good terms.


very good advice that!!

Join us for an Underwater Photography Workshop in Ambon March 2015
Blog and Photo Archive/Portfolio Site www.mikeveitchblog.com
Learn underwater photography in Indonesia or Join me on a trip www.underwatertribe.com


#6 indigo

indigo

    Wolf Eel

  • Industry
  • PipPip
  • 128 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:St. Vincent and the Grenadines

Posted 31 March 2008 - 08:21 AM

As a dive shop owner, albeit a small one, I think that you have done very well with the deal that you have received thus far! I wish that I was in position where I could give up a seat on my boat like that! (With any story there are always 3 sides - your side, their side, and what really occurred).

A good piece of advice that I will give you is 'a verbal contract is not worth the paper that it is written on...'

You sound as though you have had an enjoyable season, filmed some great footage, and received a work permit too.....an awful lot of folks would give their right arm to be in the position that you are in.

If I were you I would count my blessings, provide the dive shop owner with some of your footage, and try not to burn any bridges, as you never know when you might need some help / assistance / favors from a 'friend' in the future.

Take the higher ground, and move on, onwards and upwards!

Good luck,

Kay Wilson,
Indigo Dive
St. Vincent.

#7 craig

craig

    Full Moon Rising

  • Super Mod
  • 2826 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Austin, TX

Posted 31 March 2008 - 08:30 AM

I certainly see the dive shop owner's side on this one as well. He has paid for the content to be generated. It's a great deal to get someone to pay you to generate property which you will subsequently claim is your own.
I love it when a plan comes together.
- Col. John "Hannibal" Smith

------
Nikon, Seatool, Nexus, Inon
My Galleries

#8 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 31 March 2008 - 03:13 PM

Tom
First of all, I think you'd do well to NOT steal anything from the shop since this is thailand and you have NO idea what crap you can get into for taking property. If you paid for the DVD materials, then you could ask for compensation for editing etc but since you do not have a signed agreement, there's very little you can do.
There are a few guys on WP doing the same as you with a work permit in Phuket as well. You'd do well to contact them and discuss this. There are copyright laws in Thailand. However, your lack of experience in negotiations resulted in this. You should've covered this WAY before you got the work permit.
I'd just approach another operation better prepared with a signed agreement on terms BEFORE you start work. Plenty of lawyer/tranlators who can draft an agreement on the way to Phuket Town. Just put it down to lesson learned and be prepared for the next job.

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#9 wagsy

wagsy

    Blue Whale

  • Senior Moderator
  • 3845 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cairns, Queensland.
  • Interests:Sewing and Knitting......no diving of course :-)

Posted 31 March 2008 - 03:47 PM

Sounds like the owner is not a very nice person.
Was the boat full every day so they were missing out with a paying customer?

If it was me...I would make him his demo, "maybe not of your best stuff", encode it at low bit rate and walk away.

Remember you still have the raw DV tapes as archive now.

When we go out over here we keep 100% because it's another service the operator can provide to their customers. It's great advertising when the product is shown by the customer to friends and the stuff can be used in the shop, web etc.
Amphibico Phenom & EVO PRO & Navigator 900
Share Your Underwater Videos www.hdvunderwater.com | www.flykam.com.au | www.reeftorainforest.com.au

#10 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 31 March 2008 - 06:37 PM

I would also suggest you thread carefully as operators in Phuket, even though they don't like each other much, they still do talk. Your reputation is dependent doing what is right.

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#11 diverdon

diverdon

    Wolf Eel

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 168 posts
  • Location:Westren NY state USA
  • Interests:Airplanes, Motorcycles, Boats, PWC, Scuba, Photography, Nanotech, Manufacturing,

Posted 01 April 2008 - 12:08 PM

I would make him your very best best of video. I would put my heart and soul into it. And I would hope he sold a million copies. Because every frame of every copy would have my name, logo, and email address on it. Not in a big ugly way just down in the corner. That way every copy he sells he is really promoting you.

I would also be careful what I believed from what other videographers in the same location told, they could just be bragging that they got a better deal than you, or they could be feeding you a line hoping to sabotage your relationship so they can get your deal.

Edited by diverdon, 01 April 2008 - 12:17 PM.

www.uwworld.com

#12 allen

allen

    Sting Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 279 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salt Lake City, USA
  • Interests:I spend most of my time alpine climbing, hiking, mtn. biking, or skiing. When I can get away it is to travel for climbing or diving. Been doing this nonsense for way too long to do anything different.

Posted 01 April 2008 - 08:58 PM

I would keep my end of the of the deal and make a promo video. I would do a good job on it as others will see it. And then figure out what is needed to prevent this from happening again.